Subpar Foe Doesn't Mean Klitschko's Not An All-Timer

[FinitoElDinamita]

Subpar Foe Doesn’t Mean Klitschko’s Not an All-Timer - Boxing News

U agree or disagree with this bullshit?

[Dark Lord Al]

Klitschko is an excellent champion , you don't go on for that long if you are crap.

[FinitoElDinamita]

Klitschko is an excellent champion , you don't go on for that long if you are crap.

Nobody said he was crap.. We are just questioning his " ATG " status..

[powerpuncher]

its the same old argument. yes he has the numbers but no he isnt an all time great. fortunate timing in the sport. he has improved over the years but he wouldnt be anywhere near as dominate if the division was at least decent.

[Ron Swanson]

Longevity is its own form of substance. Look at Hop, at no point was he ever as good as Roy was at his best. But when people argue the best since Leonard they usually argue Floyd, Pac, and Hop. The only thing giving a Hop argument substance is longevity. If longevity is substance for Hop it can be for Wlad as well. The longer he reigns the more people will have to acknowledge the validity of his reign. Especially now that his brother is gone it removes the stigma "they" ruled. A faster way to legitimacy is a qualified rival but lacking that dominance over duration suffices.

[Max Power]

All Time Great is understatement.

He's second only to maybe Lennox Lewis if anybody at all!

Most of Wladimir's good opponents would be champ previously let alone Wladimir himself imo.

Put Sultan Ibragimov in the 70's and he'd be whacking guys out left right and centre.

[FinitoElDinamita]

I hear you Ron but Wlad and Hopkins isn't a fair comparison imo..

Only way we can compare is Wlad's reign VS Hop's reign at 160 where they both made many defences against mediocre oppositions.

But Hopkins jumped up in weight to beat many elite competitions in a fairly deep division while Wlad has been dominating in the weakest era of his class against C level fighters..

Big difference..

[erics44]

its isnt the subpar foe that means hes not an all timer, there are so many other factors that make his reign insignificant

[El Kabong]

All champions have to fight mandatories. Wlad has been dominating for 10 years...he can only fight the heavyweights in his era so you can't hold that against him. All he does is win.

[Max Power]

its isnt the subpar foe that means hes not an all timer, there are so many other factors that make his reign insignificant

If it's not the opponents then what are those other factors that make this reign "insignificant".

I can think of not much more "significant" that has EVER happened in 150years of boxing like the HW championship being removed from it's base country and locked it down on the other side of the world. That will be hard to forget and a little hard to top don't you think?

Even if your not a Wlad fan and I know that's a lot, it's impossible to mistake the achievement.

[erics44]

its isnt the subpar foe that means hes not an all timer, there are so many other factors that make his reign insignificant

If it's not the opponents then what are those other factors that make this reign "insignificant".

I can think of not much more "significant" that has EVER happened in 150years of boxing like the HW championship being removed from it's base country and locked it down on the other side of the world. That will be hard to forget and a little hard to top don't you think?

Even if your not a Wlad fan and I know that's a lot, it's impossible to mistake the achievement.

other champs box

[bradlee180]

its isnt the subpar foe that means hes not an all timer, there are so many other factors that make his reign insignificant

I'm no fan of Klitschko's style, but a 10 year reign at the pinnacle of Boxing which is the Heavyweight Championship of the world in NEVER insignificant.

In short, your statement is completely idiotic...

[beenKOed]

Wald doesn't want to be old school, he doesn't want to be everyone's favorite fighter, he doesn't want to have a pleasing style, he wants to win.
He is a boxer! Recently, some of you were posting about the jab being a lost art, Wlad could have beaten Leapai with his jab alone.
A lot of us want to downgrade what he has accomplished due to the sorry state of the heavyweight division. That is not his fault or his concern and beside what everyone wants to believe, I would give him an excellent chance against any past champion.
Is he the most exciting fighter I've seen? No, and half of the reason is because of his opponents. Is he fortunate he is the champion right now? Sure, but some of us talk like he should put out a disclaimer after every fight, something like this. "I'm a crap champion, all my opponents are crap, the heavyweight division is crap, don't watch my crap fights, and nothing is going to change in the foreseeable crappy future."
Man!! Let's give the guy a break, once in a while, he is doing the best he can with what he has to work with.

[Rantcatrat]

Wlad is legit. He'll never be ranked in the top 5 heavyweights of all time or even perhaps the top 10 heavyweights of all time. After that though, he clearly merits inclusion.

[IamInuit]

The heavyweight division has always been either the worst division in the sport or pretty damn close and if any of the local adolescent pee stains want to challenge this old senile prick on the fact then step up to the plate. Its one of the oldest and has been a lame division since 1865 while the other much better divisions around it carried little fanfare. Its also the geocentric division while carrying albeit the last remnants of racism

The reason is pretty basic and almost evolutionary. THEY ARE BIGGER. Its a phallic symbol and it has consistently proved to be the weakest both in competition and ability. This era stands out because you have a chinless safety first 7 foot 250 pound giant grappling bore fest as its messiah. Yeah I know whatever works right. Wrong.

In my old man opinion the mid sixties to mid seventies was the best division because of the competition levels and size similarity. There were no super heavyweights close to seven feet tall and those that came before the sixties that were close to that size were flailing trees in the wind.

Wlads going for the consec record. Its a quantity verses quality thing and you cant on the one hand shit on Joe Louis and then worship Wlad if he breaks it. If you do then its time to take out that I'm a dumb fuck t-shirt that you have not worn since you had to ask a buddy which way the condom goes on.


Louis - 25
Holmes - 19 or 20 if you include Frazier
Wlad - 15
Tommy Burns - 11


"Names" don't tell the story and never have. Roy Jones routinely gets beat by people that could not have been his bucket boy. But they will live off that in their community. Felix Sturm never left Germany after the Oscar fight and made millions. Poncho Villa beat Jimmy Wilde when the ghost with the hammer had one foot in the grave and because of that is more reviled then perhaps he should be.


Larry Holmes has some names. Most of which were in the same boat as Wilde before Villa. His timing on busting into the division was impeccable and no doubt orchestrated by Mr. King. Who did he beat and when did he beat them? Apparently karma caught up with him and he lost to a lh who had just moved up to that weight and with it matching Marciano's record. Every "name' opponent Holmes fought were pretty much done so his defenses fall under quantity not quality. Guys like Witherspoon, Willams and even Bonecrusher were all boxing virgins who barely had their feet wet. Anyway they were not names

Tommy Burns although an important historical figure for breaking the colour barrier and telling racists like author Jack London to go fuck himself didn't really do all that much. Jim Flynn and Philly Jack who had 100 + fights dont really cut the mustard and the Jack Johnson fight was a lark. Johnson not only carried him. it was arranged prior to the bout for the cops to come in and save the day. Big props for wearing 4 ounce gloves though. Burns took the title from Hart rather then stay at middle and fight Ryan. His first defense was against Jim Obrien who was 0-1-0 and then Walker who was 0-5-0. Then Flynn and Jack Obrien back to back drawing one of them. So that covers his first 5. Then Squires who was 19 and 1 followed by Moir who was 12/3. Now in fairness the 10 consecs started with Flynn so lets call him and Obrien 1,2,3 and Squires and Moir 4 and 5. Palmer was next at 23/7 followed by Roche who was 7/1. His eighth defense was against Jewey Smith who was 2/0 followed by two more fights with Squires. And then Bill Laing who was 16/4 prior to the Johnson fix.

Wlads consecutive reign is at least as impressive as Holmes or Burns if we are objective about things. In addition its been as good as other shorter reigns like Marciano and Johnson. Its always been at least for me the manner in which he goes about his "domination" I mean I understand that the idea is to get hit and not get hit but just as fundamental is the fact that it is a boxing match.

I'll end this the way I started it. The heavyweight division has always been the weakest division in boxing or second to cruiser at times after it came on stream regardless of the prestige it garners.
Even the golden era of the division was weaker then those others around it. For example, Durans light weight domination was completed overshadowed at the time.