Is Mayweather a all time great?

[Beanflicker]

Now, he's not Ray Robinson, Roberto Duran, Henry Armstrong, or Willie Pep but by God he's a fucking amazing fighter.

The only one of those guys who you could even compare to Floyd in terms of in-ring skill would be SRR.

[El Kabong]

Now, he's not Ray Robinson, Roberto Duran, Henry Armstrong, or Willie Pep but by God he's a fucking amazing fighter.

The only one of those guys who you could even compare to Floyd in terms of in-ring skill would be SRR.

Do people just look at anything I say about Floyd and attempt to find fault with it or just assume I'm slighting Floyd somehow?? How much praise must I heap on the guy to just have people accept that I think he's a great fighter?


Skill and ability sure....career achievements on the other hand. And let us not discount Willie Pep's skill or abilities...the guy survived a plane crash and came back to fight at an outrageously high level.

[Beanflicker]

Nothing against you in particular, I just think people are being a little ridiculous in including certain guys over Floyd.

People insinuate that Floyd isn't on the level of certain guys (Roberto Duran and Willie Pep in particular), and I question whether those guys should even be considered to be near Floyd's level.

In Roberto Duran, you have a guy who was a great lightweight (although who did he really beat at LW), went up to WW, got a fantastic win over Leonard and then QUIT in a championship match, got outfoxed by Wilfredo Benitez and Kirkland Laing, did good against Hagler but still lost, and got KTFO by Hearns.

Why does this guy pop up in everyone's top 10, and then people laugh when you say that a guy who went undefeated for 18 years (16 of those at the championship level) who beat every style, every body type you can think of (mostly in easy/dominant fashion), should be included in the top 10 as well.

[El Kabong]

Willie Pep had 229 wins, only 65 KO's, he fought 18 times in 1 year (think about that and the KO% he had), he was seriously injured in a plane crash January 7, 1947 and STILL fought 10 bouts that year winning all of them, he retired in 1960 then came back in 1964 and for the last part of his career he went 43-5 ......yeah, I'm sorry I included him in my all-time greats, I mean obviously the guy wasn't half the fighter Floyd Mayweather is....I mean how foolish of me to even make mention of such a boxing peon in the same thread as the great Floyd Mayweather Jr.


229(65 KO)-11-1....horrible, atrocious record.....how'd he EVER win a belt?

[El Kabong]

As for Roberto Duran....you doubt his talent, skill, drive, heart? Fuck 104(69 KO)-16-0 fought from age 16 until he was 50 years old, Universally regarded as the Greatest Lightweight of All-Time, won world titles at: lightweight, welterweight, light middleweight, and middleweight....and he's "not great" or "not worth mentioning with Mayweather"


Ok, I mean I'm sorry I'm just looking at other "great" fighters and what they did I guess truly none compare. I mean Carmen Basilio, Jake LaMatta, etc beat Ray Robinson....why is Ray in the mix

[Mr140]

Man do not shit on Duran please he started his career below 135 and manged to win a championship at 160 which is hard fucking thing to do. most of his lose came after he was 40 years of age about 10 of them which i have no problem with because still fighting top guys and in his prime lost to atg. I mean Leonard and Hearns i favor to beat Mayweather and Benitez i am not sure of it be weird fight to watch. I am not sure how Mayweather would do against Hagler either i don't think he could beat him. Pac would of never been a WW champ is Duran, Hearns, Benitez and Leonard were around because he would not fight them. I mean i rate Leonard higher then both divas now although he himself could be one but he fought fucking everyone though so i give him a pass on it on being a diva anyhow they are great fighters.

[Beanflicker]

229(65 KO)-11-1....horrible, atrocious record.....how'd he EVER win a belt?

Again, it comes back to that double standard where we'll take a current great fighter, in this case Floyd, and go over his record with a fine-toothed comb - this guy sucks, that guy sucks, that guy was overrated, that guy was washed up, ect ect ect. 46-0? 18 years undefeated? Who cares? He only fought hand picked patsies (not my opinion, just echoing the opinion a lot of people here feel about Floyd).

But then when we're talking about (insert old timer here), "ohhh well look how great he is, he has over 200 wins". Ok, but how many of those wins were against quality guys? An insanely small fraction. Floyd Mayweather, Andre Ward, Rigondeaux, Klitschko, ect... these guys could easily go to a similar (or better) record fighting that kind of opposition.

So which is it? Do we judge on quantity or quality?

Also, about Duran... great fighter, one of my personal favorites. I don't watch the second Leonard fight or the Hearns fight because it breaks my heart to see him in those positions. But let's get real: we're talking about a guy who was the lowest rung of the "Fab 4", a guy who never even came close to being dominant once he left LW, a guy who has proven flaws/shortcomings technically that were exploited by slick fighters, and a guy who did not have the proper discipline of a champion and came into several fights out of shape. A guy who quit in the middle of a championship fight because of a "tummy ache", a guy who was outclassed on numerous occaisions by slick boxers and knocked unconscious by one of his peers in short order.

Contrast that with a guy who was COMPLETELY dominant in his time, adapted and beat every style/body type/ect that was thrown at him, and was so dominant in his victories that he never had a legit rival. They don't match up.

You want to talk about SRR, Leonard, ect, that's fine. But Duran did not have nearly the same skill or dominance as Floyd, and that's a fact.

[El Kabong]

Of course, exactly my thoughts......none of them should even be mentioned in the same sentence as Floyd. In fact they shouldn't even call what those guys did "boxing" because it just doesn't even come close to what Floyd has accomplished. Boxing should be called "Mayweathering" because Floyd Mayweather Jr. is just that great at it!


ALL HAIL THE ALL-TIME GREAT MAYWEATHERING CHAMPION FLOYD MAYWEATHER JR!!!!

[El Kabong]

You want to talk about SRR, Leonard, ect, that's fine. But Duran did not have nearly the same skill or dominance as Floyd, and that's a fact.

The Ray Robinson who has 19 losses? and to who? Great fighters

The Ray Leonard who was beaten pillar to post by the very same Roberto Duran you're saying is a quitter? Yeah pick out the rematch as the 1 fight to focus on, pay no attention to the first fight.


It's not just me saying Duran and Pep belong on the all-time top pound for pound list, it's damn near every single boxing pundit since those guys stopped fighting. But since YOU disagree I guess that means my points aren't valid.

[Master]

Floyd is a great fighter but not the greatest of all time as he claims to be.

[Beanflicker]

The Ray Robinson who has 19 losses? and to who? Great fighters

The Ray Leonard who was beaten pillar to post by the very same Roberto Duran you're saying is a quitter? Yeah pick out the rematch as the 1 fight to focus on, pay no attention to the first fight.


It's not just me saying Duran and Pep belong on the all-time top pound for pound list, it's damn near every single boxing pundit since those guys stopped fighting. But since YOU disagree I guess that means my points aren't valid.

Yuck. When did every poster here turn into a bunch of butt-hurt wimps who cry and resort to lame sarcasm whenever someone disagrees and actually, ya know, tries to debate them? Sweet Jesus.

"I think Floyd undoubtedly deserves to be recognized as one of the greatest of all time, and I take issue with the fact that you mentioned that these two guys are vastly superior to Floyd, because, conversely, I believe they were inferior."

"AHHHHH ALL HAIL KING FLOYD EMPEROR OF THE UNIVERSE!!! OH NOBODY CAN MATCH UP TO HIM HE COULD OUTRUN USAIN BOLT AND BEAT CAIN VELASQUEZ IN AN MMA FIGHT!!! OHHHH BEANFLICKER I GUESS CUZ YOU DISAGREE EVERYONES DUMB BEANFLICKER AND FLOYD ARE THE EMPERORS OF SPACE AND TIME AHHHHHH FEEL THE WRATH OF MY WITTY SARCASM HAHHHHHHH"

Fuck...

[El Kabong]

Just take a second to let this sink in, Willie Pep started boxing as a professional 2 months shy of his 18th birthday in 1940. By 1942 he was 54-0-0 (that's 27 fights a year), had won the NYSAC World featherweight title (back when that meant something) in The Ring Magazine Fight of The Year vs Chalky Wright. Pep went 62-0-0 before his first loss to Sammy Agnott who was a LIGHTWEIGHT in 1943. Pep recovered until his second loss in 1948 to Hall of Famer Sandy Saddler and Pep's record was then 134-2-1 and this mind you is POST airplane crash which could have and should have ended Pep's career. Pep went on to recover and eventually avenge the loss to Saddler.

But you're going to tell me that doesn't matter? All those guys were bums? Fighting 27 times a year back to back wouldn't wear down a fighter, a fighter wouldn't run the risk of getting caught in that many rounds?


I don't just mention Willie Pep because he's an old timer, I mention him because he was a fucking great fighter! But I guess he just doesn't stand up to Floyd's records and Floyd's challengers.

[El Kabong]

I mean I am TRYING to be reasonable.....but fucking hell.


Yes I understand quantity vs quality but Willie Pep DID fight Hall of Famers, he DID fighter top fighters, he DID suffer some severe adversity and have to battle through that...to write it off just because you're only looking at the number 229 rather than seeing:

Hall of Famer Sandy Saddler
Ring Top 100 Puncher Chalky Wright
Willie Joyce who owned 2 wins over Henry Armstrong
Hall of Famer Manuel Ortiz
Hall of Famer Phil Terranova

It's not JUST that Pep fought seemingly every week, but he fought a fair few very solid if not great fighters in their own right.

[Rantcatrat]

229(65 KO)-11-1....horrible, atrocious record.....how'd he EVER win a belt?

Again, it comes back to that double standard where we'll take a current great fighter, in this case Floyd, and go over his record with a fine-toothed comb - this guy sucks, that guy sucks, that guy was overrated, that guy was washed up, ect ect ect. 46-0? 18 years undefeated? Who cares? He only fought hand picked patsies (not my opinion, just echoing the opinion a lot of people here feel about Floyd).

But then when we're talking about (insert old timer here), "ohhh well look how great he is, he has over 200 wins". Ok, but how many of those wins were against quality guys? An insanely small fraction. Floyd Mayweather, Andre Ward, Rigondeaux, Klitschko, ect... these guys could easily go to a similar (or better) record fighting that kind of opposition.

So which is it? Do we judge on quantity or quality?

Also, about Duran... great fighter, one of my personal favorites. I don't watch the second Leonard fight or the Hearns fight because it breaks my heart to see him in those positions. But let's get real: we're talking about a guy who was the lowest rung of the "Fab 4", a guy who never even came close to being dominant once he left LW, a guy who has proven flaws/shortcomings technically that were exploited by slick fighters, and a guy who did not have the proper discipline of a champion and came into several fights out of shape. A guy who quit in the middle of a championship fight because of a "tummy ache", a guy who was outclassed on numerous occaisions by slick boxers and knocked unconscious by one of his peers in short order.

Contrast that with a guy who was COMPLETELY dominant in his time, adapted and beat every style/body type/ect that was thrown at him, and was so dominant in his victories that he never had a legit rival. They don't match up.

You want to talk about SRR, Leonard, ect, that's fine. But Duran did not have nearly the same skill or dominance as Floyd, and that's a fact.

Just out of curiosity, how many times has Mayweather faced "slick boxers" on the level Duran did? In fact, when has Mayweather faced "slick boxers" at all?

[Beanflicker]

Just out of curiosity, how many times has Mayweather faced "slick boxers" on the level Duran did? In fact, when has Mayweather faced "slick boxers" at all?

That's a fair enough point, I don't think Mayweather has ever fought someone like a Benitez.