Somebody show me when Sergios knee fell apart

[Dark Lord Al]

Well done Cotto , and Martinez showed real class in losing , a shot in the arm for boxing for sure.
I think Cotto will lose to Floyd or GGG however let him enjoy this , he deserves it.

[Beanflicker]

It's not a matter of his knee completely giving out on him, it's a matter of his knees being beaten up and old and him not having the mobility and spring that he did, say, 4 years ago. No one's saying that he was a one-legged gimp out there, but he was a far cry from prime Sergio. And this didn't happen just in this fight, we've seen a sharp decline in him over the last few years.

[cyclone]

It's not a matter of his knee completely giving out on him, it's a matter of his knees being beaten up and old and him not having the mobility and spring that he did, say, 4 years ago. No one's saying that he was a one-legged gimp out there, but he was a far cry from prime Sergio. And this didn't happen just in this fight, we've seen a sharp decline in him over the last few years.

Prime Sergio got KTFO by Antonio Margarito....were his knees shot way back then??

Sergio was never all that.

[Maravilla2012]

It's not a matter of his knee completely giving out on him, it's a matter of his knees being beaten up and old and him not having the mobility and spring that he did, say, 4 years ago. No one's saying that he was a one-legged gimp out there, but he was a far cry from prime Sergio. And this didn't happen just in this fight, we've seen a sharp decline in him over the last few years.

Prime Sergio got KTFO by Antonio Margarito....were his knees shot way back then??

Sergio was never all that.

Sergio was not in he's Prime in 2000 when he fight Antonio in he's 14th fight. And he didn't get KTFO it was a TKO stoppage. You need to learn your boxing.

[Beanflicker]

It's not a matter of his knee completely giving out on him, it's a matter of his knees being beaten up and old and him not having the mobility and spring that he did, say, 4 years ago. No one's saying that he was a one-legged gimp out there, but he was a far cry from prime Sergio. And this didn't happen just in this fight, we've seen a sharp decline in him over the last few years.

Prime Sergio got KTFO by Antonio Margarito....were his knees shot way back then??

Sergio was never all that.

Prime Sergio was 2000? Three years into his career? Come on dude, don't pollute the thread with stupid.

[erics44]

It's not a matter of his knee completely giving out on him, it's a matter of his knees being beaten up and old and him not having the mobility and spring that he did, say, 4 years ago. No one's saying that he was a one-legged gimp out there, but he was a far cry from prime Sergio. And this didn't happen just in this fight, we've seen a sharp decline in him over the last few years.

Prime Sergio got KTFO by Antonio Margarito....were his knees shot way back then??

Sergio was never all that.

Prime Sergio was 2000? Three years into his career? Come on dude, don't pollute the thread with stupid.

I actually kind of agree


I dunno about his prime being in 2000 but I don't think he was the lb4lb great that was being suggested


he was a very good champ yes


but during the period everyone had him as lb4lb top 3 his best wins were pavlik and Williams? both of who were second attempts? is that right?


I think boxing fans put fighters down too often but I don't think Sergio deserved the lofty status he had

[Beanflicker]

Well Sergio couldn't get fights for most of his career while he was in his physical prime because he was a slick southpaw mover/counter puncher. When he finally started getting shots, he got robbed twice in a row vs Cintron and Williams, and went on a tear and whipped the undisputed #1 MW in Pavlik, which is Pavlik's only loss at MW.

Now I agree that Martinez maybe was overrated by some, as he never was on the skill level of a Floyd Mayweather or Andre Ward and did have his share of flaws, but Sergio was a magnificent boxing talent for his relatively short time at the top. He was a top p4p guy in the sport without question.

[erics44]

yeah perhaps he was top 10 lb4lb


but it was being talked about like Floyd, Manny, Sergio and then the rest


there was even a time he was put in second behind Floyd, I had a conversation on here with some people about it


he was a very good champ but he was never that good

[Gandalf]

I'm a Cotto fan most of the time and was kind of on the fence in terms of who I wanted to win. For me it was about Martinez and his size and condition. And if Cotto could box well enough. Cotto did box well enough, but Martinez was nigh on handicapped out there and the legs looked like they could go at any point in the fight. The damage was clearly before the fight and Martinez wasn't being honest about being ready to box. Then that first round when a breeze or an ounce of pressure on the leg would send him crumbling. After it was a man without a zimmerframe doing his best not to get beaten up too much.

Good win for Cotto, but I find it hard to give credit for beating up an obviously hobbling man. You go and do it outside and see the plaudits you get. The fight shouldn't have happened, but to get 2 names in would sell tickets and that was what they tried. I am sure they all knew about the condition of Martinez though. If it had stopped in the 1st I could see many being very angry and it almost was. PPV can be about old fighters making a case for one last run, but they don't usually come in hobbling. Usually it is being too shot to let the hands go. In this fight Martinez too though couldn't let the hands go and had no angles. The legs meant every part of his game was gone.

[J_Undisputed]

There are some good point made here. I think many of us knew cotto was improved but many of us also bought that sergios slide was more injury than age. I think Cotto (and freddy) did a great job (i was rooting for Sergio)and Sergio deserved the loss. Whatever the factors are as far as Sergio's physical state. He signed the contract after agreeing to demands etc.
As fas as sergio the fighter Goes, he is a great ambassador for the sport. He seemed to a honest guy who was not perfect he'd get caught, then get up and turned it up a few notches. He didn't throw tantrums in the ring when he got jobbed. Just came back better. Concerning his greatness, we tend to appreciate fighters with less classical styles/training and superb athletic ability (like martinez and RJJ) more after their time. Mostly because so much of it time/age dependent (Legs, reflexes, speed). I think many of us wanted to see a guy like sergio extend his run a little longer because of his late start and even later recognition. Was it all downhill after the Chavez fight? Its hard to say and you won't get an honest assessment from the fighter. We can see that the injuries seemed to accumulate and are slower to heal. I will say his focus kind of suffered too starting with the chavez fight. Opponents getting under his skin and statements referring to himself as a superstar (prior to the hometown Argentina fight) became noticeable, anti bully campaigns etc.

Coming into this fight seemed like a a perfect storm of factors. Age, Injuries, If you're out for a year and you spend 7 months on crutches, then rehab, physical therapy, then training for a fight in the last 2-3 months. Was Cotto at a catch weight (where you have to substitute your roadwork for low or no impact cardio) really the wisest choice for a first fight back? But sergio signed the contract and should have known what he was getting into. Freddy made a crafty pick in this fight and then sought to insurance through gamesmanship, as freddy is often known to do. ("Ruined fighter" statements, kneegate etc...) Cotto was the better prepared and improved fighter. We never got to see how much of sergio was left.

That being said, the view of the doubters has some merit. In that they've seen Sergio stalked, chased and tagged by bigger stronger, aggressive opponents. He was able to out maneuver them easy and his speed, ability to bridge the gap and power became equalizers to the equation. Sergios been caught early before but never seemed to be that adversely affected before (Could this have been water weight drain affecting his levels of Cerebral Spinal Fluid). His normally explosive lateral movement and head movement was also absent. This could be due its effect on his equilibrium after he was caught. There's no way to know for certain what had sergio so far off the mark for this fight (maybe cotto would always have sergios number) but considering the physical factors, age, weight drain... and how they match up with freddys assertions definitely implies a correlation that can contribute to the doubters cherry picking theory. I think looking beyond this fight, i ask myself if could I see Cotto having trouble with fighters at the weight like Trout or Lara (who also use lateral movement) and the answer comes back probably.

[cyclone]

Well Sergio couldn't get fights for most of his career while he was in his physical prime because he was a slick southpaw mover/counter puncher. When he finally started getting shots, he got robbed twice in a row vs Cintron and Williams, and went on a tear and whipped the undisputed #1 MW in Pavlik, which is Pavlik's only loss at MW.

Now I agree that Martinez maybe was overrated by some, as he never was on the skill level of a Floyd Mayweather or Andre Ward and did have his share of flaws, but Sergio was a magnificent boxing talent for his relatively short time at the top. He was a top p4p guy in the sport without question.

bullshit....that old fag Sergio never had trouble getting fights.

Stop making shit up.

[Gandalf]

Well Sergio couldn't get fights for most of his career while he was in his physical prime because he was a slick southpaw mover/counter puncher. When he finally started getting shots, he got robbed twice in a row vs Cintron and Williams, and went on a tear and whipped the undisputed #1 MW in Pavlik, which is Pavlik's only loss at MW.

Now I agree that Martinez maybe was overrated by some, as he never was on the skill level of a Floyd Mayweather or Andre Ward and did have his share of flaws, but Sergio was a magnificent boxing talent for his relatively short time at the top. He was a top p4p guy in the sport without question.

bullshit....that old fag Sergio never had trouble getting fights.

Stop making shit up.

It is true. I have to say, you are such a racist.

[cyclone]

yeah perhaps he was top 10 lb4lb


but it was being talked about like Floyd, Manny, Sergio and then the rest


there was even a time he was put in second behind Floyd, I had a conversation on here with some people about it


he was a very good champ but he was never that good

truth

[cyclone]

Well Sergio couldn't get fights for most of his career while he was in his physical prime because he was a slick southpaw mover/counter puncher. When he finally started getting shots, he got robbed twice in a row vs Cintron and Williams, and went on a tear and whipped the undisputed #1 MW in Pavlik, which is Pavlik's only loss at MW.

Now I agree that Martinez maybe was overrated by some, as he never was on the skill level of a Floyd Mayweather or Andre Ward and did have his share of flaws, but Sergio was a magnificent boxing talent for his relatively short time at the top. He was a top p4p guy in the sport without question.

bullshit....that old fag Sergio never had trouble getting fights.

Stop making shit up.

.

It is true. I have to say, you are such a racist.

Look who's talking...one of Top Rank's unpaid shills
maybe you can tell me when Sergio had trouble getting fights.

[Gandalf]

Well Sergio couldn't get fights for most of his career while he was in his physical prime because he was a slick southpaw mover/counter puncher. When he finally started getting shots, he got robbed twice in a row vs Cintron and Williams, and went on a tear and whipped the undisputed #1 MW in Pavlik, which is Pavlik's only loss at MW.

Now I agree that Martinez maybe was overrated by some, as he never was on the skill level of a Floyd Mayweather or Andre Ward and did have his share of flaws, but Sergio was a magnificent boxing talent for his relatively short time at the top. He was a top p4p guy in the sport without question.

bullshit....that old fag Sergio never had trouble getting fights.

Stop making shit up.

It is true. I have to say, you are such a racist.

maybe you can tell me when Sergio had trouble getting fights.

When he was free and young and on a bicycle in France.