Scientific Fraud

[bcollins]

Saying the science is settled is NOT the same as saying that it is an indisputable fact. This is YOUR error, YOUR misconception of what science is. Saying that "the science is settled" reflects the fact that the people who know what they are doing are almost unanimously in agreement, which is a true statement. In the scientific community, such a consensus might as well be regarded as fact. Just because it is impossible to show with one hundred percent certainty does not imply that you should just disregard the result, or science as a whole. Without science, you'd still be living in the damn Dark Ages.

People effing baffle me. You have no trouble trusting certain science, science that is not used as a political prop, but as soon as some nitwit who probably flunked middle school math and science (but had wealthy friends or family who helped them get in office) starts to question the science, you think that is a perfectly reasonable objection. Do you trust a heart or a brain surgeon to know more about their job than you? Do you believe that a politician has a better understanding of something so complex? That idea is LAUGHABLE, period. The idea that someone with no expertise can stand over an expert's shoulder and tell him or her how to do their job better is downright idiotic. Do you agree that this is so? If you contest this idea, then I'm afraid I have to stop talking about this, as I no longer have any respect for your opinion on the matter. This seems to me to be a self-evident truth, one that requires no discussion - but maybe I'm wrong.

Maybe now people value their own opinion so highly that the voice of expertise is no longer important. I find that to be one of the greatest problems facing our country, much more so than which political party holds power in Washington, or even the influence of giant corporations in government. People have become delusional about the value of their own opinion.

[El Kabong]

Saying the science is settled is NOT the same as saying that it is an indisputable fact. This is YOUR error, YOUR misconception of what science is. Saying that "the science is settled" reflects the fact that the people who know what they are doing are almost unanimously in agreement, which is a true statement. In the scientific community, such a consensus might as well be regarded as fact. Just because it is impossible to show with one hundred percent certainty does not imply that you should just disregard the result, or science as a whole. Without science, you'd still be living in the damn Dark Ages.

People effing baffle me. You have no trouble trusting certain science, science that is not used as a political prop, but as soon as some nitwit who probably flunked middle school math and science (but had wealthy friends or family who helped them get in office) starts to question the science, you think that is a perfectly reasonable objection. Do you trust a heart or a brain surgeon to know more about their job than you? Do you believe that a politician has a better understanding of something so complex? That idea is LAUGHABLE, period. The idea that someone with no expertise can stand over an expert's shoulder and tell him or her how to do their job better is downright idiotic. Do you agree that this is so? If you contest this idea, then I'm afraid I have to stop talking about this, as I no longer have any respect for your opinion on the matter. This seems to me to be a self-evident truth, one that requires no discussion - but maybe I'm wrong.

Maybe now people value their own opinion so highly that the voice of expertise is no longer important. I find that to be one of the greatest problems facing our country, much more so than which political party holds power in Washington, or even the influence of giant corporations in government. People have become delusional about the value of their own opinion.

Bad science can be worse than no science and we're dealing with bad science. Because the first response (not just yours but everyone has bought into Anthropogenic Global Warming/Cooling/Climate Change) is to malign and ridicule.

Bring up that professors have been caught fudging data and you get attacked.

Bring up that NASA & NOAA changed their data to be factual because their computer models were found to be outrageously skewed and you get attacked.

Bring up ANY professor, scientist, whoever who disagrees with or is even skeptical about Anthropogenic Global Warming/Cooling/Climate Change and THEIR character(s) is/are attacked.


Al Gore IS a hypocrite, he flies around in private jets, uses more energy than 99% of the population but it's all good because the man buys "Carbon Offsets" from a company he fucking owns!

Take a good hard look at "Carbon Offsets" and then a good hard look at The Catholic Church selling Indulgences and remind me about the difference between the two!

But it's not JUST the hypocrites like Gore I want to bring out into the light it's people who WILL starve in developing countries, people WILL die because they won't have jobs, they won't have money, they won't have food, they won't have drugs, they won't have power, they won't have plumbing....the policies produced by this pseudoscience WILL KILL PEOPLE scores of people!!!


Climate Scientist Who Got It Right Predicts 20 More Years of Global Cooling | CNS News

Sure CNS is a right leaning news site BUT if you look at Dr. Easterbrook's prediction of temperature vs the IPCC's there's no fucking contest, Dr. Easterbrook got it bang on the money and the IPCC was a FULL DEGREE OFF which is mighty huge.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LkMweOVOOI

We had 30 years of global COOLING after 1945 when CO2 was being poured into the climate every year.....how does a rapid release of CO2 for 30 years not produce warming UNLESS CO2 HAS NO IMPACT ON CLIMATE CHANGE

1978-1998 temperatures rose when CO2 was rising....only time it's happened, sorry that is a FACT


In the last 500 years there have been 20 "Warm periods" with about 30 years between each one....it's a cycle. 0 repeat 0 correlation between Anthropogenic release of CO2 and those warm periods.


But hey, I guess my take isn't popular, I guess I'll take heat for it but I'm not going to waiver because actual fact speak against it. 1936 was the warmest year of the 20th Century AND was warmer that any time in the 21st century FACT....hottest decade 1930's....FACT....consider how much CO2 has been released into the atmosphere since then and tell me I'm wrong.

[bcollins]

One at a time:

Bad science can be worse than no science and we're dealing with bad science.

I agree with the first part. The second part, "we're dealing with bad science," is your opinion, and as you are not an expert in the field, I give no weight to your opinion.

Because the first response (not just yours but everyone has bought into Anthropogenic Global Warming/Cooling/Climate Change) is to malign and ridicule.

The majority of responses I have seen in academic journals and conference proceedings are not malign and ridicule, but rather disagreement and rebuttal. Again, I think you get this more from news sources from anyone within the scientific community.

Bring up that professors have been caught fudging data and you get attacked.

Your definition of "fudging data" is unclear. Do you mean updating data to reflect newer and more accurate means of collection? If so, then this is a common and vital component of scientific inquiry. For example, compare the means to collect medical data in the eighteenth century to modern means. The technology is better, so the data is now more accurate.

Bring up that NASA & NOAA changed their data to be factual because their computer models were found to be outrageously skewed and you get attacked.

Again, the data was updated due to new collection processes. With new data comes new predictions from the models. The incident to which you refer has been THOROUGHLY debunked by the scientific community. Media outlets still cling to propaganda, yet the facts are now clear. See previous link to punditfact for more info.

Bring up ANY professor, scientist, whoever who disagrees with or is even skeptical about Anthropogenic Global Warming/Cooling/Climate Change and THEIR character(s) is/are attacked.

It is not the character which is attacked usually, but rather the results and methods used. This is an integral part of scientific research - if someone presents something that is incorrect, it is the job of other researchers to point this out. Some people take it personally, but results stand on their own scientific merit. This is the very heart of peer-reviewed academic research (and the whole point). Results MUST stand up to scrutiny.


Al Gore IS a hypocrite, he flies around in private jets, uses more energy than 99% of the population but it's all good because the man buys "Carbon Offsets" from a company he fucking owns!

No argument there. I agree 100% - Al Gore used scientific information for his own gain. It is good to get the information out there, but his purposes, I believe, were purely political and profit-driven.

Take a good hard look at "Carbon Offsets" and then a good hard look at The Catholic Church selling Indulgences and remind me about the difference between the two!

This has nothing to do with the debate about the validity of climate science and is irrelevant. In fact, I feel that the selling of indulgences is just plain silly at best.

But it's not JUST the hypocrites like Gore I want to bring out into the light it's people who WILL starve in developing countries, people WILL die because they won't have jobs, they won't have money, they won't have food, they won't have drugs, they won't have power, they won't have plumbing....the policies produced by this pseudoscience WILL KILL PEOPLE scores of people!!!

This is a complex issue and dangerous to oversimplify. If the climate changes in a catastrophic manner - note the if, because I can't say for certain - then all these other issues are moot anyway. People will die, for sure. On the other hand, embracing renewable energy sources has the potential to create jobs and economic strength in developing countries. Your classification of "pseudoscience" is again not an expert opinion, so I will (again) do the reasonable thing and listen to the experts rather than media blatherers and politicians, who seem to be the primary source of the misinformation.


Climate Scientist Who Got It Right Predicts 20 More Years of Global Cooling | CNS News

Sure CNS is a right leaning news site BUT if you look at Dr. Easterbrook's prediction of temperature vs the IPCC's there's no fucking contest, Dr. Easterbrook got it bang on the money and the IPCC was a FULL DEGREE OFF which is mighty huge.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LkMweOVOOI

Aha! Finally a reference to someone with the credentials to be an expert in the field. Unfortunately, he is widely regarded as incorrect at best:

Don Easterbrook's Heartland Distortion of Reality

or even potentially duplicitous:

Don Easterbrook’s Academic Dishonesty | Global Warming: Man or Myth?

His own department thinks he is incorrect:

"Decades of scientific research have shown that climate can change from both natural and anthropogenic causes. The Geology Faculty at WWU concur with rigorous, peer-reviewed assessments by the National Academies of Science (2005), the National Research Council (2006), and the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC, 2007) that global climate has warmed significantly and that human activities (mainly greenhouse-gas emissions) account for most of the warming since the middle 1900s. If current trends continue, the projected increase in global temperature by the end of the twenty-first century will result in large impacts on humans and other species. Addressing the challenges posed by climate change will require a combination of adaptation to the changes that are likely to occur and global reductions of carbon dioxide emissions from anthropogenic sources."


We had 30 years of global COOLING after 1945 when CO2 was being poured into the climate every year.....how does a rapid release of CO2 for 30 years not produce warming UNLESS CO2 HAS NO IMPACT ON CLIMATE CHANGE

1978-1998 temperatures rose when CO2 was rising....only time it's happened, sorry that is a FACT

In the last 500 years there have been 20 "Warm periods" with about 30 years between each one....it's a cycle. 0 repeat 0 correlation between Anthropogenic release of CO2 and those warm periods.

Again, I defer to the experts to provide me with information here, since I have no expertise. Just a ten minute search of the topic on Google Scholar provides dozens of expert, peer-reviewed studies who contradict your beliefs.

But hey, I guess my take isn't popular, I guess I'll take heat for it but I'm not going to waiver because actual fact speak against it. 1936 was the warmest year of the 20th Century AND was warmer that any time in the 21st century FACT....hottest decade 1930's....FACT....consider how much CO2 has been released into the atmosphere since then and tell me I'm wrong.

No sense in wavering in the face of overwhelming expert opinion, huh? You keep saying fact, but I don't think that word means what you think it means. When you say 1936 was the warmest year of the 20th century, in what sense are you speaking? You have to be much, much more precise if you want to have a serious discussion based on ACTUAL facts. Do you mean absolute temperature? Globally averaged annual mean surface temperature? Again, I think you must have about thirty years more training in the field before you can say FACT, period, like you are an expert. We'll continue this discussion once you have your doctorate and have published several results in respected peer-reviewed journals.

[El Kabong]

I am betting the Pigeon League gave Galileo a similar amount of flack for his view on heliocentrism.


Why do I question the "science" you tout?

....well




Cooling....Warming.....Climate Change


Just on verbiage alone the "scientists" have now found a way to cover their asses. Now the data doesn't matter as much because the media is feeding hysteria based on weather rather than climate....I've provided examples of why there are/were no correlations between the Anthropogenic release of CO2 and the climate getting warmer or cooler but as is usual my data doesn't come from "respected" scientists.....are any of the 30,000 scientists suing Al Gore respected? Are any that deny Anthropogenic climate change respected? Or is their act of accepting Anthropogenic climate change what makes them "respected"

There are variables which affect climate more than the Anthropogenic release of CO2....but I guess that's erroneous to discuss.

The simple truth is this, "Climate Change" is a catch all...if a hurricane happens, Humans did it, if hurricanes DON'T happen, Humans did it, if tornadoes happen, Humans did it, if they DON'T Humans did it, if it snows, freezes, rains, gets warm, doesn't rain, etc.....if weather in general happens HUMANS ARE BLAMED...Hurricane Katrina....man made Did CO2 output cause that? The news certainly pushes that agenda, the politicians push that agenda, the "well respected" scientists push that agenda.....those same bastards who adjust the data in those computer models....they push that agenda.


Why?

The reasons are simple...money for the scientists, awards for the scientists, awards even for politicians like Al Gore AND also for the politicians POWER, CONTROL....through legislation backed up with the data provided by the scientists who are getting their grants from the government.

But hey, your data is clean, uncorrupted, and it's always.....look at me....ALWAYS.....been right....just like when we had that scare with the "Population Bomb" am I right?

[bcollins]

I am betting the Pigeon League gave Galileo a similar amount of flack for his view on heliocentrism.


Why do I question the "science" you tout?

....well




Cooling....Warming.....Climate Change


Just on verbiage alone the "scientists" have now found a way to cover their asses. Now the data doesn't matter as much because the media is feeding hysteria based on weather rather than climate....I've provided examples of why there are/were no correlations between the Anthropogenic release of CO2 and the climate getting warmer or cooler but as is usual my data doesn't come from "respected" scientists.....are any of the 30,000 scientists suing Al Gore respected? Are any that deny Anthropogenic climate change respected? Or is their act of accepting Anthropogenic climate change what makes them "respected"

There are variables which affect climate more than the Anthropogenic release of CO2....but I guess that's erroneous to discuss.

The simple truth is this, "Climate Change" is a catch all...if a hurricane happens, Humans did it, if hurricanes DON'T happen, Humans did it, if tornadoes happen, Humans did it, if they DON'T Humans did it, if it snows, freezes, rains, gets warm, doesn't rain, etc.....if weather in general happens HUMANS ARE BLAMED...Hurricane Katrina....man made Did CO2 output cause that? The news certainly pushes that agenda, the politicians push that agenda, the "well respected" scientists push that agenda.....those same bastards who adjust the data in those computer models....they push that agenda.


Why?

The reasons are simple...money for the scientists, awards for the scientists, awards even for politicians like Al Gore AND also for the politicians POWER, CONTROL....through legislation backed up with the data provided by the scientists who are getting their grants from the government.

But hey, your data is clean, uncorrupted, and it's always.....look at me....ALWAYS.....been right....just like when we had that scare with the "Population Bomb" am I right?

Have there been erroneous conclusions throughout history in the scientific arena? Absolutely! Look up how Georg Cantor was ostracized by his peers for his beliefs on the nature of the relative sizes of infinity. The poor guy ended up in the insane asylum a broken man as a result - and now his ideas are widely accepted as correct.

Does the possibility that your contention is correct exist? 100 percent! Of course the possibility exists. Science is a slave to the data. One of the reasons that I'm a mathematician is that in our field, it is much easier to prove a result - everything is based on logical arguments, so if the chain of logic can be shown to hold, then the result must hold as well. Climate science is a much, much different beast. I understand the ideas of their modeling techniques extremely well, but the methods used to collect data and the underlying geology are almost completely unknown to me. As a reasonable man, I must defer to those who have spent their entire lives studying these topics - it would be tantamount to me claiming to know more about brain surgery than a brain surgeon. It's ridiculous.

It bothers me that you rebut the arguments of experts with magazine covers. The media spins things however it wants, with very little understanding of the actual science. Were you studying climate science in the 70s? What makes you an expert to judge if the media depicted correctly what the science showed then? Do you see my problem with your contention? Show me journal articles from the 70s - my guess is that the methodology of data collection has improved as technology has improved. It really isn't correct to judge scientists for deriving results based on the data that was available to them at that time.

As for your provided "examples" - again, come on man! You are relying too much on the University of Google, something that makes professional scientists and educators like myself want to weep. YOU HAVE NO EXPERTISE OR UNDERSTANDING OF THE SCIENCE OF CLIMATOLOGY. YOU CANNOT ACCOUNT FOR THE VERACITY OF YOUR EXAMPLES.

Your claim of corruption within the scientific community is one that must be honestly addressed, however. This is a legitimate concern, and you are correct to worry about it. I want to know what the point would be. If there is a GLOBAL conspiracy - and there must be, since the community of climate experts extends all over the world - then governments from countries such as China, Russia, and India must be in on it as well. What's the payoff? Why would the government work so hard to make people believe that global warming is occurring and furthermore man-made? Considering the power and influence of Big Oil, it would be logical to assume that any conspiracy by the government would contend an opposite claim. I suppose the payoff might be to push through alternative energy solutions. But since these energy sources are less controllable, I don't see a logical profit motive there that would push Big Oil out of the way.

I can understand your reluctance to believe everything you hear, and I even applaud it, because I am similarly cynical. For beginning scientists, getting grants is easier if the topic is "flavor of the day." For example, a few years ago anything concerning mathematical modeling of biological systems got green-lighted very quickly (I worked on a few of those grants). The difference is that experts in the field are given grants regardless of a particular viewpoint. Dr. Easterbrook, your example of an expert who goes against the grain, so to speak, receives most of his funding from the NSF, just like his colleagues. If there is a giant conspiracy, wouldn't he lose his funding as well? Reputations greatly facilitate the funding process. If a scientist falsifies results knowingly, reputation is damaged and it becomes more difficult to obtain funding. Scientists are very careful about results for this reason - I'm not saying deliberate falsification doesn't happen, but if it does, other scientists are quick to point it out. Falsification on the scale of which you believe would be incredibly difficult to pull off.

[bcollins]

One other thing - the terminology change from "global warming" to "climate change" was made because of cretins with IQs lower than their shoe size. The argument of "It's cold outside! Where is that global warming?" is precisely why the change was made. Global warming was used to describe aggregate global data - uneducated people thought it meant that every day should be hot. Lack of understanding of scientific terminology - and I agree that the first choice of global warming was unfortunate, for this very reason.

[El Kabong]

One other thing - the terminology change from "global warming" to "climate change" was made because of cretins with IQs lower than their shoe size. The argument of "It's cold outside! Where is that global warming?" is precisely why the change was made. Global warming was used to describe aggregate global data - uneducated people thought it meant that every day should be hot. Lack of understanding of scientific terminology - and I agree that the first choice of global warming was unfortunate, for this very reason.

...the first choice was Global COOLING


Also those magazine covers didn't happen out of nowhere studies were used, projections were used.