Enough - No more apologies for evil

[Dia bando]

There is no question that america's nation-building and meddling and outright bombings resulting in millions and millions of murders have caused the infinite hatred it is now experiencing from groups abroad and at home.

Theses people ask for help on there terms, it seems the middle east want to cherry pick help,
you can die for them in helping them, then you must fuck off out of our Country, after people
have given there blood for them. You would say a very ungrateful bunch, it's easy to get others
to do your dirty work, for you but they are capable, of defending themselves but they are running
off, strange bunch they want freedom but some other fucker can fight for it.

[ryanman]

In an attempt to appear to elevate themselves above the most basic understanding of a situation people often over analyse and in doing so detach themselves from their humanity.


A journalist had his head cut off with a knife.




Your human instincts should be quite clear about how to feel about that.


I know people are looking for reasons for IS but some do appear to be crossing the line into justification. There is no justification at all. These people are warped, largely unintelligent and completely without logic or any degree of proportionality.


Finding reasons is one thing, but then feel free to say what is clear - the reasons IS state should not in any sane person's mind lead to the actions they take.


IS are not a persecuted group fighting for freedom, they are the absolute opposite.


If your first instinct when hearing about something like that journalist is to think about American foreign policy rather than just being sickened and deeply saddened that that would happen to ANYBODY then you have dehumanised yourself or the poor victim.

[brocktonblockbust]

my 1st reactionm to ANY death is horror, fright, shock, disgust---and when i say ANY death I include the deaths of brides and grooms who were "MERE COLLATERAL DAMAGE" OF UK AND US BOMBING RUNS. WHOOPS!!!! WE HIT THE WRONG HOUSE, OH WELL, FREEDOM ISNT FREE!!!!

[Beanz]

my 1st reactionm to ANY death is horror, fright, shock, disgust---and when i say ANY death I include the deaths of brides and grooms who were "MERE COLLATERAL DAMAGE" OF UK AND US BOMBING RUNS. WHOOPS!!!! WE HIT THE WRONG HOUSE, OH WELL, FREEDOM ISNT FREE!!!!

The two things are in no way interchangeable or equivalent. I could not have put it any better than Ryanman has.

[brocktonblockbust]

my 1st reactionm to ANY death is horror, fright, shock, disgust---and when i say ANY death I include the deaths of brides and grooms who were "MERE COLLATERAL DAMAGE" OF UK AND US BOMBING RUNS. WHOOPS!!!! WE HIT THE WRONG HOUSE, OH WELL, FREEDOM ISNT FREE!!!!

The two things are in no way interchangeable or equivalent. I could not have put it any better than Ryanman has.

@Greenbeanz you have lost your mind , bloke. The murders of a bride and groom and of james Foley are "in no way interchangeable or equivalent" YOu will have a hard time explaining that comment after putting your foot in your mouth on that one mate. ANY murder is equivalent to ANY murder. ARE YOU KIDDING ME? So the bride and groom who were murdered by a drone as they tied the knot is not as tragically appalling as the James Foley throat-cutting? So you have LEVELS of murders that are incrementally more and more or less and less horrific? You are BATTY. A TRUE MOON BAT, AN EASTERN EUROPEAN TRANSYLVANIAN VAMPIRE OF THE HIGHEST BLOOD-SUCKING GYPSY ORDER, ............. but I still love you, you little pixie-mazed Slaughterhouse 5, ale-drinking muckraking pork-barrel insomniac, you.

[ryanman]

my 1st reactionm to ANY death is horror, fright, shock, disgust---and when i say ANY death I include the deaths of brides and grooms who were "MERE COLLATERAL DAMAGE" OF UK AND US BOMBING RUNS. WHOOPS!!!! WE HIT THE WRONG HOUSE, OH WELL, FREEDOM ISNT FREE!!!!

The two things are in no way interchangeable or equivalent. I could not have put it any better than Ryanman has.

@Greenbeanz you have lost your mind , bloke. The murders of a bride and groom and of james Foley are "in no way interchangeable or equivalent" YOu will have a hard time explaining that comment after putting your foot in your mouth on that one mate. ANY murder is equivalent to ANY murder. ARE YOU KIDDING ME? So the bride and groom who were murdered by a drone as they tied the knot is not as tragically appalling as the James Foley throat-cutting? So you have LEVELS of murders that are incrementally more and more or less and less horrific? You are BATTY. A TRUE MOON BAT, AN EASTERN EUROPEAN TRANSYLVANIAN VAMPIRE OF THE HIGHEST BLOOD-SUCKING GYPSY ORDER, ............. but I still love you, you little pixie-mazed Slaughterhouse 5, ale-drinking muckraking pork-barrel insomniac, you.

Any innocent life lost is tragic and saddening.
But Greenbeanz is right. Their lives are of course worth an equal amount, but the manner of their death is not the same.
One human severing the head of another human being that is in their presence, by the own hand takes a few extra levels of barbarism than a man pressing a button which launches a missile for instance that misses its intended target and thus kills people.


If you honestly think its the same then you have taken leave of your basic human instincts.


Now, I know you like to jump on things and go a bit mad so to be clear - I know that the lives are worth the same. I know that it is tragic either way.
But we are talking about the actions of the killers here. And there is such a thing as INTENT. And it matters. It matters a lot. Again I say (because I don't want a capital letter tirade) that I do not support the use of drones. And I genuinely feel real honest pain when hearing about poor Iraqis that have lost their families. But the actions of the killers in these things do not equate.
A proportionate response by the murders own logic now would be for a friend of James Foley to murder a random innocent Muslim in retaliation. Would that be fair and just? No.

[brocktonblockbust]

my 1st reactionm to ANY death is horror, fright, shock, disgust---and when i say ANY death I include the deaths of brides and grooms who were "MERE COLLATERAL DAMAGE" OF UK AND US BOMBING RUNS. WHOOPS!!!! WE HIT THE WRONG HOUSE, OH WELL, FREEDOM ISNT FREE!!!!

The two things are in no way interchangeable or equivalent. I could not have put it any better than Ryanman has.

@Greenbeanz you have lost your mind , bloke. The murders of a bride and groom and of james Foley are "in no way interchangeable or equivalent" YOu will have a hard time explaining that comment after putting your foot in your mouth on that one mate. ANY murder is equivalent to ANY murder. ARE YOU KIDDING ME? So the bride and groom who were murdered by a drone as they tied the knot is not as tragically appalling as the James Foley throat-cutting? So you have LEVELS of murders that are incrementally more and more or less and less horrific? You are BATTY. A TRUE MOON BAT, AN EASTERN EUROPEAN TRANSYLVANIAN VAMPIRE OF THE HIGHEST BLOOD-SUCKING GYPSY ORDER, ............. but I still love you, you little pixie-mazed Slaughterhouse 5, ale-drinking muckraking pork-barrel insomniac, you.

Any innocent life lost is tragic and saddening.
But Greenbeanz is right. Their lives are of course worth an equal amount, but the manner of their death is not the same.
One human severing the head of another human being that is in their presence, by the own hand takes a few extra levels of barbarism than a man pressing a button which launches a missile for instance that misses its intended target and thus kills people.


If you honestly think its the same then you have taken leave of your basic human instincts.


Now, I know you like to jump on things and go a bit mad so to be clear - I know that the lives are worth the same. I know that it is tragic either way.
But we are talking about the actions of the killers here. And there is such a thing as INTENT. And it matters. It matters a lot. Again I say (because I don't want a capital letter tirade) that I do not support the use of drones. And I genuinely feel real honest pain when hearing about poor Iraqis that have lost their families. But the actions of the killers in these things do not equate.
A proportionate response by the murders own logic now would be for a friend of James Foley to murder a random innocent Muslim in retaliation. Would that be fair and just? No.

NOT TALKING ABOUT THE "MISSED" TARGET ALONE. Do you not think Bush and Rumsfeld ever "intended" to kill blocks and blocks of people? Do you think all 1,300,000 Iraqis who were killed in Bush/Blair ILLEGAL INVASION OF IRAQ were terrorists and insurgents? All 1,300,000 That would be iompossible. Bush/Blair?Rumsfeld & Co. SLAUGHTERED KNOWINGLY plenty of innocents --- they admitted it themselves in so many words of course, that it is better to wipe out the barrel to get that 1 or 2 bad apples. Its the price we have to pay, Albright said it, Hillary said it, Rumsfeld said it. So now what, wise guy? Forget the "whoops! collateral damage, Bill! That terrorist holding area turned out to be a children's hospital! Holy Christ, now what?" shit, Im talking about hard-core "get in there and wipe these towel-heads out!" and have you not seen all the examples of US GIs going house to house and simply machine gunning the occupants down? It happened thousands of times in Iraq. All Im saying is there is no difference between machine gunning a family down or murdering prisoners in Abu Ghraib and filming it whilst laughing after US and British soldiers placed bags over their heads, and what the animal scumbag evil bastard did to Foley.

If you think there is a difference you are pixie-mazed, daft, poppy-cocked out to the n-th degree.