Robert Garcia thinks Pacquiao is one of the best in history

**Beanflicker** · 09-03-2014 11:09 PM

It's amazing that people would even question it. The fact that people don't think Floyd and Pac are ATG's shows what a bunch of weak-minded "golden age" obsessed phonies most boxing fans are.

Floyd and Pac belong in the same conversation as any boxer who ever lived and that's just a fact. Pac is a beast.

**mikeeod** · 09-03-2014 11:32 PM

Originally Posted by Beanflicker

It's amazing that people would even question it. The fact that people don't think Floyd and Pac are ATG's shows what a bunch of weak-minded "golden age" obsessed phonies most boxing fans are.

Floyd and Pac belong in the same conversation as any boxer who ever lived and that's just a fact. Pac is a beast.

Agree with you for the most part. I will say that those that put Mayweather or Pac over guys like Robinson, Armstrong, Ali...etc. aren't being objective either. They are in the conversation for top 20 in my opinion, but ahead of Leonard, Duran and guys of that stature is a little much. Both have faced some respectable competition, but not on the level of those guys. Both need that win plus one more significant win or historical feat to reach that Top 10 level. Where they are is still extremely impressive.

**Beanflicker** · 09-04-2014 03:26 PM

Originally Posted by mikeeod

Agree with you for the most part. I will say that those that put Mayweather or Pac over guys like Robinson, Armstrong, Ali...etc. aren't being objective either. They are in the conversation for top 20 in my opinion, but ahead of Leonard, Duran and guys of that stature is a little much. Both have faced some respectable competition, but not on the level of those guys. Both need that win plus one more significant win or historical feat to reach that Top 10 level. Where they are is still extremely impressive.

I'm not convinced that those guys fought better opposition than Floyd and Pac.

I find that people will go through the records of modern guys with a fine tooth comb, but give yesterday's greats the benefit of the doubt. Sugar Ray Robinson, Armstrong... these guys fought a LOT of bums that didn't belong in the ring with them - guys of a level that, if Floyd or Pac tried to fight that kind of level today - the athletic commissions would not allow it.

**Beanflicker** · 09-04-2014 03:28 PM

I personally think when you look at in ring talent, it's SRR, Floyd, and everyone else. No one had the complete package like those guys did.

I don't care where people rank Floyd, but if they don't have him in their top 20 at least, I know that their opinion about anything boxing related is useless.

Floyd is an asshole and a P.O.S but his skill and accomplishments have to be acknowledged.

**mikeeod** · 09-04-2014 03:46 PM

Originally Posted by Beanflicker

I personally think when you look at in ring talent, it's SRR, Floyd, and everyone else. No one had the complete package like those guys did.

I don't care where people rank Floyd, but if they don't have him in their top 20 at least, I know that their opinion about anything boxing related is useless.

Floyd is an asshole and a P.O.S but his skill and accomplishments have to be acknowledged.

Are we talking top 20 based off of what our subjective view of talent/skill is, or are we talking too 20 based off accomplishments? Two different discussions and I can see a case where Floyd isn't too 20 in accomplishments. Maybe that means I'm useless and don't know boxing though...

**Master** · 09-04-2014 09:03 PM

Manny is ATG for what he has achieved from such a low weight and smashing fighters as he went up the division. So much so that certain fighters got amazed and scared to take him on.

**mikeeod** · 09-04-2014 03:44 PM

Originally Posted by Beanflicker

Originally Posted by mikeeod

Agree with you for the most part. I will say that those that put Mayweather or Pac over guys like Robinson, Armstrong, Ali...etc. aren't being objective either. They are in the conversation for top 20 in my opinion, but ahead of Leonard, Duran and guys of that stature is a little much. Both have faced some respectable competition, but not on the level of those guys. Both need that win plus one more significant win or historical feat to reach that Top 10 level. Where they are is still extremely impressive.

I'm not convinced that those guys fought better opposition than Floyd and Pac.

I find that people will go through the records of modern guys with a fine tooth comb, but give yesterday's greats the benefit of the doubt. Sugar Ray Robinson, Armstrong... these guys fought a LOT of bums that didn't belong in the ring with them - guys of a level that, if Floyd or Pac tried to fight that kind of level today - the athletic commissions would not allow it.

What you are saying about those guys fighting bums and not being called on it is true, to a degree. The other half of that statement is that they weren't fighting once or twice a year back then, they were fighting almost every other month. When u r in the ring that much, u can't take on an elite guy every time because there just aren't that many elite guys around. Back then pretty much every match up you wanted to see came to fruition, for the most part (guys like Burley and Langford felt the affects of being frozen out/avoided). Robinson fought Kid Gavilan, Gene Fullmer, Carmen Basilio, Rocky Graziano, Henry Armstrong, Jake Lamotta and Joey Maxim to name a few off the too of my head. You can't compare that group with Chico Corrales, Ricky Hatton, Miguel Cotto, and Jose Castillo. Floyd has fought some good competition, but he hasn't faced the murderers that those guys faced. It isn't to say Floyd isn't an ATG or would have lost to all of them, but just like Rocardo Lopez is hurt by lack of available ATG competition, Floyd is hurt as well.