Should Scotland stay in the UK?

[Beanz]

Scottish people have over £1000 more spent on them per person per year and yet we are supposed to see them as the hard done by? Scottish and Welsh Mps get to dictate how money is spent on the English and then on themselves in their own Parliament but the English do not. Now apparently Manchester want independence and parliament there. The arrogance of it.

Miles you have seen democracy in action and are acting like a spoilt child because your cherry picking version of reality is so intolerant and dictatorial that you will not even contemplate the merits of a different point of view.

[Gandalf]

When people are given a fair choice without threats, bribery and a constant Goebbels style media assault then people cannot complain so much. However, only one paper gave the Scots a pro voice, the BBC was biased, the politicians were abusive and threatening and what swung it was apparently a head bobbing Brown with a bunch of words written on the back of a packet of pork scratchings or was it a beermat? I couldn't tell with all of his slick moves running to and fro and was admittedly distracted by his unseemly satanic possession. Now, if you think that is a fair approach then good for you, but the people making these last minute promises are ALL known liars on serious issues.

I worry and with good reason. William Hague is apparently now in charge of leading these apparent changes. Does that fill you with confidence? Every bad event is an opportunity for these people and does anyone really think that the Lib/Lab/Con tag team is going to ever do anything positive for ordinary people? They are not going to let this opportunity go to waste. It is now going to be the common purpose devolution option which was always the plan. Occupation by stealth.

[ryanman]

When people are given a fair choice without threats, bribery and a constant Goebbels style media assault then people cannot complain so much. However, only one paper gave the Scots a pro voice, the BBC was biased, the politicians were abusive and threatening and what swung it was apparently a head bobbing Brown with a bunch of words written on the back of a packet of pork scratchings or was it a beermat? I couldn't tell with all of his slick moves running to and fro and was admittedly distracted by his unseemly satanic possession. Now, if you think that is a fair approach then good for you, but the people making these last minute promises are ALL known liars on serious issues.

I worry and with good reason. William Hague is apparently now in charge of leading these apparent changes. Does that fill you with confidence? Every bad event is an opportunity for these people and does anyone really think that the Lib/Lab/Con tag team is going to ever do anything positive for ordinary people? They are not going to let this opportunity go to waste. It is now going to be the common purpose devolution option which was always the plan. Occupation by stealth.

Why didn't they just save the hassle and implement the requirement for a 2/3rds majority that is the norm for such votes around the world?

That would have been easier wouldn't it?

Cameron is a cunt for sure, but he isn't a master puppeteer.

I see nothing here other than a very fair referendum with a fair result.
The Scottish people are not likely to be duped by any of Cameron's crap - this was above party politics. Cameron will be gone next year.

[Dia bando]

Politicians today are a different breed, they start there life on the political road in University, so
in my eyes theses people, really are professional Politicians.
They have lost touch with the working classes, and Frankly no fuck all about Joe public or don't
really care, take Cameron he's a millionaire,! a privileged up bring , privately educated, this
man loves being Prime Minister for the power not the money he has plenty.
This condescending bunch in Westminster, are far removed from Beanz in Cornwall , Adam in the
northeast, and me in Wrexham, and others round the UK.
The people in Scotland reminded this bunch, people are dissatisfied with them not the Union, and here is fact in Spain a I talking to this Spanish guy he told me he was a Basque,! and proud of
it but he told me when we go to WAR WE ALL GO TO WAR,! so you can have Nationalism but
when your in the shit we are in it altogether very true.!!!!!!!!!

[Gandalf]

When people are given a fair choice without threats, bribery and a constant Goebbels style media assault then people cannot complain so much. However, only one paper gave the Scots a pro voice, the BBC was biased, the politicians were abusive and threatening and what swung it was apparently a head bobbing Brown with a bunch of words written on the back of a packet of pork scratchings or was it a beermat? I couldn't tell with all of his slick moves running to and fro and was admittedly distracted by his unseemly satanic possession. Now, if you think that is a fair approach then good for you, but the people making these last minute promises are ALL known liars on serious issues.

I worry and with good reason. William Hague is apparently now in charge of leading these apparent changes. Does that fill you with confidence? Every bad event is an opportunity for these people and does anyone really think that the Lib/Lab/Con tag team is going to ever do anything positive for ordinary people? They are not going to let this opportunity go to waste. It is now going to be the common purpose devolution option which was always the plan. Occupation by stealth.

Why didn't they just save the hassle and implement the requirement for a 2/3rds majority that is the norm for such votes around the world?

That would have been easier wouldn't it?

Cameron is a cunt for sure, but he isn't a master puppeteer.

I see nothing here other than a very fair referendum with a fair result.
The Scottish people are not likely to be duped by any of Cameron's crap - this was above party politics. Cameron will be gone next year.

I cannot speak for the world, but in the UK we have referendums based on a majority and I like it that way. It would have been unacceptable to require 2/3rd's and I assume most people would regard that as draconian and unfair too.

Cameron is not a master puppeteer and that is why the entire parliamentary system is a hoax. Cameron may well be gone next year, but it will be next years model.

I cannot dispute the result other than being disappointed. I don't think it was a fair lead up and Brown looked like he was on ecstasy, but at least the voting process appears to have been well handled. I can understand old people having the fear too, but I want a system that gives something to the young other than draining them dry. It ain't happening with this system.

[ryanman]

When people are given a fair choice without threats, bribery and a constant Goebbels style media assault then people cannot complain so much. However, only one paper gave the Scots a pro voice, the BBC was biased, the politicians were abusive and threatening and what swung it was apparently a head bobbing Brown with a bunch of words written on the back of a packet of pork scratchings or was it a beermat? I couldn't tell with all of his slick moves running to and fro and was admittedly distracted by his unseemly satanic possession. Now, if you think that is a fair approach then good for you, but the people making these last minute promises are ALL known liars on serious issues.

I worry and with good reason. William Hague is apparently now in charge of leading these apparent changes. Does that fill you with confidence? Every bad event is an opportunity for these people and does anyone really think that the Lib/Lab/Con tag team is going to ever do anything positive for ordinary people? They are not going to let this opportunity go to waste. It is now going to be the common purpose devolution option which was always the plan. Occupation by stealth.

Why didn't they just save the hassle and implement the requirement for a 2/3rds majority that is the norm for such votes around the world?

That would have been easier wouldn't it?

Cameron is a cunt for sure, but he isn't a master puppeteer.

I see nothing here other than a very fair referendum with a fair result.
The Scottish people are not likely to be duped by any of Cameron's crap - this was above party politics. Cameron will be gone next year.

I cannot speak for the world, but in the UK we have referendums based on a majority and I like it that way. It would have been unacceptable to require 2/3rd's and I assume most people would regard that as draconian and unfair too.

Cameron is not a master puppeteer and that is why the entire parliamentary system is a hoax. Cameron may well be gone next year, but it will be next years model.

I cannot dispute the result other than being disappointed. I don't think it was a fair lead up and Brown looked like he was on ecstasy, but at least the voting process appears to have been well handled. I can understand old people having the fear too, but I want a system that gives something to the young other than draining them dry. It ain't happening with this system.

I agree it would be draconian, but with lots of precedent.

Anyway, I certainly don't wish to see the present system conserved.
Fundamental reform is needed, not just in Britain but around the world.

My fundamental belief that underpins all my political thoughts is to create a fairer distribution of wealth, resource and liberty.

The whats, whys and hows are something that I am pragmatic about.

On this, I honestly was not sure what is best for the people of Scotland and was happy for them to decide based on the fact they have been thoroughly engaged with the process for 2 years and became a very well informed electorate.

[Dia bando]

When people are given a fair choice without threats, bribery and a constant Goebbels style media assault then people cannot complain so much. However, only one paper gave the Scots a pro voice, the BBC was biased, the politicians were abusive and threatening and what swung it was apparently a head bobbing Brown with a bunch of words written on the back of a packet of pork scratchings or was it a beermat? I couldn't tell with all of his slick moves running to and fro and was admittedly distracted by his unseemly satanic possession. Now, if you think that is a fair approach then good for you, but the people making these last minute promises are ALL known liars on serious issues.

I worry and with good reason. William Hague is apparently now in charge of leading these apparent changes. Does that fill you with confidence? Every bad event is an opportunity for these people and does anyone really think that the Lib/Lab/Con tag team is going to ever do anything positive for ordinary people? They are not going to let this opportunity go to waste. It is now going to be the common purpose devolution option which was always the plan. Occupation by stealth.

Why didn't they just save the hassle and implement the requirement for a 2/3rds majority that is the norm for such votes around the world?

That would have been easier wouldn't it?

Cameron is a cunt for sure, but he isn't a master puppeteer.

I see nothing here other than a very fair referendum with a fair result.
The Scottish people are not likely to be duped by any of Cameron's crap - this was above party politics. Cameron will be gone next year.

I cannot speak for the world, but in the UK we have referendums based on a majority and I like it that way. It would have been unacceptable to require 2/3rd's and I assume most people would regard that as draconian and unfair too.

Cameron is not a master puppeteer and that is why the entire parliamentary system is a hoax. Cameron may well be gone next year, but it will be next years model.

I cannot dispute the result other than being disappointed. I don't think it was a fair lead up and Brown looked like he was on ecstasy, but at least the voting process appears to have been well handled. I can understand old people having the fear too, but I want a system that gives something to the young other than draining them dry. It ain't happening with this system.

I agree it would be draconian, but with lots of precedent.

Anyway, I certainly don't wish to see the present system conserved.
Fundamental reform is needed, not just in Britain but around the world.

My fundamental belief that underpins all my political thoughts is to create a fairer distribution of wealth, resource and liberty.

The whats, whys and hows are something that I am pragmatic about.

On this, I honestly was not sure what is best for the people of Scotland and was happy for them to decide based on the fact they have been thoroughly engaged with the process for 2 years and became a very well informed electorate.

In Scotland there was a very high turnout of voters 85%, and democracy won the day and that's
how it should be,! but remember the Capital sucks the life blood out of the Country by attracting
talented people for all over the UK. What you have is one place generating wealth and prosperity
in one region, this is not good for other part of the UK, because you only have the attraction of London as the major power house.
You will never have a fair distribution of wealth, other City's round the UK need to be power houses
as well not just London from North to South and East and West, share wealth evenly around the
Country.

Westminster have just found out adrenaline is not brown and does not run down your leg,! there
arrogance and shear ignorance nearly cost them the Union, if you look at the vote per population
the NO vote won by a little under 4 hundred thousand votes.
Now the bull shit starts, more false promises there is a Election next year so , watch Cameron trying to sell his snake oil to the voters.

[superheavyrhun]

Scottish people have over £1000 more spent on them per person per year and yet we are supposed to see them as the hard done by? Scottish and Welsh Mps get to dictate how money is spent on the English and then on themselves in their own Parliament but the English do not. Now apparently Manchester want independence and parliament there. The arrogance of it.

Miles you have seen democracy in action and are acting like a spoilt child because your cherry picking version of reality is so intolerant and dictatorial that you will not even contemplate the merits of a different point of view.

Please refer to Manchester by it's correct title - the Monaco of the North.

[superheavyrhun]

Can't help but feel that the No vote was a missed opportunity for progress on these British Isles. The promises of the three "leaders" in Westminster are disappearing quicker than a Dominos pizza at the office, and the cynic in me can't help feeling that Crooked Dai is feeling very pleased with himself right now. If he doesn't follow through on his promises of more powers....he might lose a whole MP from Scotland! He has no incentive to really try and push it through, and the other two don't have the numbers to send those powers north. The usual smoke and mirrors disappears to leave empty promises once again.

Feeling very down and depressed today after last night's results, went to bed at four as it was clear which way it was going to go. I don't see any changes coming for the next General Election, just the usual bunch of posh boys voted in by scaremongering that the left would take away their rose and canapes budget by raising taxes. And even if Labour does get in again, which is unlikely with Miliband in charge, they're not even the left any more. The last Labour government was almost as bad for the working man as the Tories.

[Master]

You stayed up until 4am and it was not for boxing?. You crazy.

[walrus]

Regardless the outcome, congrats to all you Scott's. An 85 percent turnout for votes is a great show of democracy. Also liked that the leader of the separation movement in your government stepped down saying he may not be the best choice at this time. The guy is admirable. All in all you guys get a big thumbs up from us here in the USA although I fear with the apparent views many hold here, a thumbs up from an American may be an evil act but I assure you in this case it is not.

[Dia bando]

Can't help but feel that the No vote was a missed opportunity for progress on these British Isles. The promises of the three "leaders" in Westminster are disappearing quicker than a Dominos pizza at the office, and the cynic in me can't help feeling that Crooked Dai is feeling very pleased with himself right now. If he doesn't follow through on his promises of more powers....he might lose a whole MP from Scotland! He has no incentive to really try and push it through, and the other two don't have the numbers to send those powers north. The usual smoke and mirrors disappears to leave empty promises once again.

Feeling very down and depressed today after last night's results, went to bed at four as it was clear which way it was going to go. I don't see any changes coming for the next General Election, just the usual bunch of posh boys voted in by scaremongering that the left would take away their rose and canapes budget by raising taxes. And even if Labour does get in again, which is unlikely with Miliband in charge, they're not even the left any more. The last Labour government was almost as bad for the working man as the Tories.

Well mate I hope Plaid never get in,! just a bunch of Welsh speaking Tories same outlook on privatising everything NHS included. I totally agree Labour have lost there working class values.
But I am for democracy that's what the people of Scotland had, and they voted to stay in the Union
this is not football or rugby, this is serous stuff Nationalism DON'T PAY THE BILLS.

This moment in time Scotland gave a NO vote, who Knows in 10 years down the road they may have a chance, to vote again, but they have to take note of the 1 million plus yes voters.
Hopefully more powers for Scotland and Wales, this may be the start of more regional government
for all the UK, which I feel people would like.

[superheavyrhun]

Can't help but feel that the No vote was a missed opportunity for progress on these British Isles. The promises of the three "leaders" in Westminster are disappearing quicker than a Dominos pizza at the office, and the cynic in me can't help feeling that Crooked Dai is feeling very pleased with himself right now. If he doesn't follow through on his promises of more powers....he might lose a whole MP from Scotland! He has no incentive to really try and push it through, and the other two don't have the numbers to send those powers north. The usual smoke and mirrors disappears to leave empty promises once again.

Feeling very down and depressed today after last night's results, went to bed at four as it was clear which way it was going to go. I don't see any changes coming for the next General Election, just the usual bunch of posh boys voted in by scaremongering that the left would take away their rose and canapes budget by raising taxes. And even if Labour does get in again, which is unlikely with Miliband in charge, they're not even the left any more. The last Labour government was almost as bad for the working man as the Tories.

Well mate I hope Plaid never get in,! just a bunch of Welsh speaking Tories same outlook on privatising everything NHS included. I totally agree Labour have lost there working class values.
But I am for democracy that's what the people of Scotland had, and they voted to stay in the Union
this is not football or rugby, this is serous stuff Nationalism DON'T PAY THE BILLS.

This moment in time Scotland gave a NO vote, who Knows in 10 years down the road they may have a chance, to vote again, but they have to take note of the 1 million plus yes voters.
Hopefully more powers for Scotland and Wales, this may be the start of more regional government
for all the UK, which I feel people would like.

Agree with you about Plaid, while they are the only nationalist party in Wales they are also just a little bit too strange to want in charge of anything. Do you remember their policy of "A laptop for every child"? Nationalism itself won't pay the bills, but are you saying that we need to continue being the poor relation so that we can get crumbs from the English table? There are so many things the Wales could use as a resource were we to get independence. We can start off by charging everyone in the north for drinking our bloody water. Put it in bottles, price it about 10p less than Evian, and all of Beanz's friends up in the Monaco of the North will be lapping it up.

Now that the threat of independence is gone, Cameron has no reason whatsoever to offer anything more than a few more measly morsels, the 1.6 million voting for independence would never have voted for his shower of shit anyway. If I'm ever offered the choice for a vote on whether I'd like to continue being the country with the security of a minimum wage survival type existence that we get as a part of the UK, or the chance to become something bigger and better independently, I know where my vote would go. I'd rather be standing unhindered and free on the deck of the Titanic rather than being chained to the English dining table in main hall.

[Dia bando]

Can't help but feel that the No vote was a missed opportunity for progress on these British Isles. The promises of the three "leaders" in Westminster are disappearing quicker than a Dominos pizza at the office, and the cynic in me can't help feeling that Crooked Dai is feeling very pleased with himself right now. If he doesn't follow through on his promises of more powers....he might lose a whole MP from Scotland! He has no incentive to really try and push it through, and the other two don't have the numbers to send those powers north. The usual smoke and mirrors disappears to leave empty promises once again.

Feeling very down and depressed today after last night's results, went to bed at four as it was clear which way it was going to go. I don't see any changes coming for the next General Election, just the usual bunch of posh boys voted in by scaremongering that the left would take away their rose and canapes budget by raising taxes. And even if Labour does get in again, which is unlikely with Miliband in charge, they're not even the left any more. The last Labour government was almost as bad for the working man as the Tories.

Well mate I hope Plaid never get in,! just a bunch of Welsh speaking Tories same outlook on privatising everything NHS included. I totally agree Labour have lost there working class values.
But I am for democracy that's what the people of Scotland had, and they voted to stay in the Union
this is not football or rugby, this is serous stuff Nationalism DON'T PAY THE BILLS.

This moment in time Scotland gave a NO vote, who Knows in 10 years down the road they may have a chance, to vote again, but they have to take note of the 1 million plus yes voters.
Hopefully more powers for Scotland and Wales, this may be the start of more regional government
for all the UK, which I feel people would like.

Agree with you about Plaid, while they are the only nationalist party in Wales they are also just a little bit too strange to want in charge of anything. Do you remember their policy of "A laptop for every child"? Nationalism itself won't pay the bills, but are you saying that we need to continue being the poor relation so that we can get crumbs from the English table? There are so many things the Wales could use as a resource were we to get independence. We can start off by charging everyone in the north for drinking our bloody water. Put it in bottles, price it about 10p less than Evian, and all of Beanz's friends up in the Monaco of the North will be lapping it up.

Now that the threat of independence is gone, Cameron has no reason whatsoever to offer anything more than a few more measly morsels, the 1.6 million voting for independence would never have voted for his shower of shit anyway. If I'm ever offered the choice for a vote on whether I'd like to continue being the country with the security of a minimum wage survival type existence that we get as a part of the UK, or the chance to become something bigger and better independently, I know where my vote would go. I'd rather be standing unhindered and free on the deck of the Titanic rather than being chained to the English dining table in main hall.

Westminster is at fault MP's are no longer grass roots politicians, weather your English, Welsh's,
etc, many people all over the country are having crumbs, remember poor is poor a family living
in poverty in Plymouth or Blackburn what is the difference,! none just geography.

Trouble is we are ruled by the rich and privileged people, the old school tie brigade our economy
has been fucked up, I remember telling some friends the economy cant' carry on like this, some years back people were borrowing money hand over fist.
We are all in the shit in the UK, would independence make it any better for us No not one bit because we would still be in debt it would not disappear.
I am a relist mate independence is not the be all end all, facts are you need money we are all pissing in a big pot, it's a lot better than pissing in a tea cup.!!!!!!!!!!

[Beanz]

Scottish people have over £1000 more spent on them per person per year and yet we are supposed to see them as the hard done by? Scottish and Welsh Mps get to dictate how money is spent on the English and then on themselves in their own Parliament but the English do not. Now apparently Manchester want independence and parliament there. The arrogance of it.

Miles you have seen democracy in action and are acting like a spoilt child because your cherry picking version of reality is so intolerant and dictatorial that you will not even contemplate the merits of a different point of view.

Please refer to Manchester by it's correct title - the Monaco of the North.

I very much hate the North but Manchester especially. I would down tools at a moments notice and go straight to war if it meant I didn't have to hear somebody moaning about how hard it is up there ever again.