Psychological Greats

[Master]

Master

If you are blind, I can understand not 'seeing' the devastating mind game that Larry
dished on Muhammad.

After that bout, everyone turned their back on Muhammad and felt sorry for him.

Pity is the worst type of 'psychological pain'.

Are you that blind to see that Holmes did not have to carry out any mind games on Ali. Muhammad was barely able to talk and walk never mind get in the ring with a great hungry champion.

[Bill Paxtom]

Not True

Muhammad Ali was in great physical shape, and was as sharp as a 'tack'.

He even said so himself.

[Master]

Not True

Muhammad Ali was in great physical shape, and was as sharp as a 'tack'.

He even said so himself.

He would say that he was selling the fight! Look at him, he was ill. Why do you not see that?

[mikeeod]

Not True

Muhammad Ali was in great physical shape, and was as sharp as a 'tack'.

He even said so himself.

He would say that he was selling the fight! Look at him, he was ill. Why do you not see that?

Master, I think he is just messing with you. Ali was a fraction of the fighter he was during his prime when they met. I would just let it go, if he really feels like that there isn't anything u r going to be able to say to change his mind anyways.

[Beanz]

Bill if Joe himself, God rest his soul, was still here, even he would shake his head in disbelief. You are several nuggets short of a bargain bucket.

[Bill Paxtom]

Larry Holmes

Played 'mind games' with Muhammad Ali.

Larry broke down Muhammad before the bout got started.

It had nothing to do with Muhammad's physical being.

[SugarBoxing]

Not True

Muhammad Ali was in great physical shape, and was as sharp as a 'tack'.

He even said so himself.

I cannot recall the source, but peoplpe say his hands were shaking and he did act like a person with mental problems

[TitoFan]

Not True

Muhammad Ali was in great physical shape, and was as sharp as a 'tack'.

He even said so himself.

He would say that he was selling the fight! Look at him, he was ill. Why do you not see that?

Master, I think he is just messing with you. Ali was a fraction of the fighter he was during his prime when they met. I would just let it go, if he really feels like that there isn't anything u r going to be able to say to change his mind anyways.

This.

[Ron Swanson]

This psychological stuff is viewed wrong. Yes Hopkins pulled some nice stunts but any way you look at it he was going to box the WW great Tito to bits. Any way you look at it he was going to beat Holmes. You see evidence that the result is actually drawn from the result by someone saying it didn't work against Calzaghe. The difference wasn't the psychological war, it was the opponent.People say he won this fight so that psychological stuff must have worked or he lost so it must not have. When it was never about that.

Psychological war is fought in small details. Make a guy think about your straight right when your gameplan revolves around the left hook. If a guy has stamina issues make him think about that, nothing taxes the body like nerves. Or maybe they fight at a slower pace.

Drawing conclusions from the result is faulty, look at the action. Don't look at the whole, was a detail effected and capitalized on. We fans want to make dramatic all encompassing statements. To make these statements we stretch small factors into deciding factors.

[THE THIRD MAN]

Not Really

Cassius Clay was certifiable 'Nuts', but Charles 'Sonny' Liston was not in the least bit intimidated by him.

95% of that stuff was 'choreographed' for the Press.

Larry Holmes definitely 'psyched out' Muhammad Ali before their match. Muhammad knew he that was going
to get a beating, and he knew that there was no way in Hell that he was going to win a 'single' Round, let alone beat Larry.

Not until they actually met in the ring and Liston couldn't believe how big Ali was, this proved to be a huge problem for him with Ali standing 3 inches taller than the formidable Liston.

[Bill Paxtom]

Not Really

Cassius Clay was certifiable 'Nuts', but Charles 'Sonny' Liston was not in the least bit intimidated by him.

95% of that stuff was 'choreographed' for the Press.

Larry Holmes definitely 'psyched out' Muhammad Ali before their match. Muhammad knew he that was going
to get a beating, and he knew that there was no way in Hell that he was going to win a 'single' Round, let alone beat Larry.

Not until they actually met in the ring and Liston couldn't believe how big Ali was, this proved to be a huge problem for him with Ali standing 3 inches taller than the formidable Liston.

Third Man

You make it sound like Sonny Boy never saw or met the 'Draft Dodger' Cassius Clay before they
walked into the Ring in February 1964.

Who are you kidding...........

[Master]

Bill the only person you are kidding is yourself.

[mikeeod]

This psychological stuff is viewed wrong. Yes Hopkins pulled some nice stunts but any way you look at it he was going to box the WW great Tito to bits. Any way you look at it he was going to beat Holmes. You see evidence that the result is actually drawn from the result by someone saying it didn't work against Calzaghe. The difference wasn't the psychological war, it was the opponent.People say he won this fight so that psychological stuff must have worked or he lost so it must not have. When it was never about that.

Psychological war is fought in small details. Make a guy think about your straight right when your gameplan revolves around the left hook. If a guy has stamina issues make him think about that, nothing taxes the body like nerves. Or maybe they fight at a slower pace.

Drawing conclusions from the result is faulty, look at the action. Don't look at the whole, was a detail effected and capitalized on. We fans want to make dramatic all encompassing statements. To make these statements we stretch small factors into deciding factors.

That is a stretch Ron. Again, Hop had everyone, including Tito, looking for a back alley brawl and came out and put on a clinic. You can try and downplay it all you want, but ANYONE who followed the sport at that time was shocked at Hopkins fighting like that. Shocked.

As for looking at the small things, I used the example of Pascal in the rematch. If you don't think it messed with Pascals mind to have Hop constantly discuss Pascals stamina issues, you're crazy. Pascal was mentally exhausted by the 10th round. Again, the most impressive part of Hops mind games is how he uses them on judges n refs with success as well.

[THE THIRD MAN]

Not Really

Cassius Clay was certifiable 'Nuts', but Charles 'Sonny' Liston was not in the least bit intimidated by him.

95% of that stuff was 'choreographed' for the Press.

Larry Holmes definitely 'psyched out' Muhammad Ali before their match. Muhammad knew he that was going
to get a beating, and he knew that there was no way in Hell that he was going to win a 'single' Round, let alone beat Larry.

Not until they actually met in the ring and Liston couldn't believe how big Ali was, this proved to be a huge problem for him with Ali standing 3 inches taller than the formidable Liston.

Third Man

You make it sound like Sonny Boy never saw or met the 'Draft Dodger' Cassius Clay before they
walked into the Ring in February 1964.

Who are you kidding...........

He only ever saw Ali from a distance or when he gatecrashed his training sessions in the pre - fight build up. Most of the time Liston was in the ring training. He had never met Ali up close until the weigh in. Many of those watching at ringside were surprised during the referee's instructions to see that Ali was considerably taller than Liston. While receiving instructions, Liston glowered upward at Ali, while Ali stared back and stood on his toes to appear even taller.Ali might've been shitting himself, but i reckon Liston had just realised a huge problem was in front of him and not just some nut!

[Bill Paxtom]

The Third Man is out in the Rafters.

Sonny Liston and Cassis Clay met up close many times in 1962 and 1963.

In November 1963, they were all buddy-buddy, both in Denver and in Las Vegas.