True or false most pro boxers dont pivot the foot they push off it?

[OMGWTF]

So push down method, is it more powerful or less powerful than the foot twist method?

I prefer the foot twist method and I prefer to use it the way scrap recommends. But alot of pros, like Tyson, Tua, Fraizier, etc etc prefer the push down method.

Which is more powerful which is better?

Heres the push down/ push off 1st method

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/webroot/a...s/159589_o.gif


Heres foot twist 1st method

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmAFFvdGc_o

[Scrap]

So push down method, is it more powerful or less powerful than the foot twist method?

I prefer the foot twist method and I prefer to use it the way scrap recommends. But alot of pros, like Tyson, Tua, Fraizier, etc etc prefer the push down method.

Which is more powerful which is better?

Heres the push down/ push off 1st method

Redirect Notice


Heres foot twist 1st method

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmAFFvdGc_o

Its a mixture of the two. poor demonstration on the bag, nobodys got a head that size.

[OMGWTF]

So push down method, is it more powerful or less powerful than the foot twist method?

I prefer the foot twist method and I prefer to use it the way scrap recommends. But alot of pros, like Tyson, Tua, Fraizier, etc etc prefer the push down method.

Which is more powerful which is better?

Heres the push down/ push off 1st method

Redirect Notice


Heres foot twist 1st method

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmAFFvdGc_o

Its a mixture of the two. poor demonstration on the bag, nobodys got a head that size.

Whats a mix of the two?

[Scrap]

So push down method, is it more powerful or less powerful than the foot twist method?

I prefer the foot twist method and I prefer to use it the way scrap recommends. But alot of pros, like Tyson, Tua, Fraizier, etc etc prefer the push down method.

Which is more powerful which is better?

Heres the push down/ push off 1st method

Redirect Notice


Heres foot twist 1st method

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmAFFvdGc_o

Its a mixture of the two. poor demonstration on the bag, nobodys got a head that size.

Whats a mix of the two?

Dropping while turning.

[BCBUD]

So push down method, is it more powerful or less powerful than the foot twist method?

I prefer the foot twist method and I prefer to use it the way scrap recommends. But alot of pros, like Tyson, Tua, Fraizier, etc etc prefer the push down method.

Which is more powerful which is better?

Heres the push down/ push off 1st method

Redirect Notice


Heres foot twist 1st method

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmAFFvdGc_o

Its a mixture of the two. poor demonstration on the bag, nobodys got a head that size.

Whats a mix of the two?

Dropping while turning.

Scrap coach said that your style is Jack Dempsey's style over here a good coach like you could make a lot of money teaching drop stepping anywhere from $100-150 per session.

[Scrap]

So push down method, is it more powerful or less powerful than the foot twist method?

I prefer the foot twist method and I prefer to use it the way scrap recommends. But alot of pros, like Tyson, Tua, Fraizier, etc etc prefer the push down method.

Which is more powerful which is better?

Heres the push down/ push off 1st method

Redirect Notice


Heres foot twist 1st method

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmAFFvdGc_o

Its a mixture of the two. poor demonstration on the bag, nobodys got a head that size.

Whats a mix of the two?

Dropping while turning.

Scrap coach said that your style is Jack Dempsey's style over here a good coach like you could make a lot of money teaching drop stepping anywhere from $100-150 per session.

Got offered the Olympic job in 84 .

[Scrap]

I basically havent got a style, I give the fighters one .

[BCBUD]

So push down method, is it more powerful or less powerful than the foot twist method?

I prefer the foot twist method and I prefer to use it the way scrap recommends. But alot of pros, like Tyson, Tua, Fraizier, etc etc prefer the push down method.

Which is more powerful which is better?

Heres the push down/ push off 1st method

Redirect Notice


Heres foot twist 1st method

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmAFFvdGc_o

Its a mixture of the two. poor demonstration on the bag, nobodys got a head that size.

Whats a mix of the two?

Dropping while turning.

Scrap coach said that your style is Jack Dempsey's style over here a good coach like you could make a lot of money teaching drop stepping anywhere from $100-150 per session.

Got offered the Olympic job in 84 .

Really that's great! But why didn't you take it?

[jms]

So push down method, is it more powerful or less powerful than the foot twist method?

I prefer the foot twist method and I prefer to use it the way scrap recommends. But alot of pros, like Tyson, Tua, Fraizier, etc etc prefer the push down method.

Which is more powerful which is better?

Heres the push down/ push off 1st method

Redirect Notice


Heres foot twist 1st method

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmAFFvdGc_o

These methods are the exact same thing. You're getting confused because you're looking at how a beginner is taught technique in a controlled environment then how a pro applies that technique in a dynamic environment, seeing that they aren't identical and trying to figure out why. You said before that the difference is in one the pivot comes before the push, in the other the push comes first. That's not right, in both of them the push comes first. The pivot is emphasized because most beginners won't turn their hips at all without it, and coming up higher on the ball of the foot is an easy way to teach them to transfer weight more easily. Then as the boxer progresses the weight transfer and hip rotation come more naturally, their ROM likely increases and the technique starts to look different, when really it's the same but more refined. The pros still do move their feet and their knees, it's just more subtle and you aren't seeing it.

[OMGWTF]

So push down method, is it more powerful or less powerful than the foot twist method?

I prefer the foot twist method and I prefer to use it the way scrap recommends. But alot of pros, like Tyson, Tua, Fraizier, etc etc prefer the push down method.

Which is more powerful which is better?

Heres the push down/ push off 1st method

Redirect Notice


Heres foot twist 1st method

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmAFFvdGc_o

These methods are the exact same thing. You're getting confused because you're looking at how a beginner is taught technique in a controlled environment then how a pro applies that technique in a dynamic environment, seeing that they aren't identical and trying to figure out why. You said before that the difference is in one the pivot comes before the push, in the other the push comes first. That's not right, in both of them the push comes first. The pivot is emphasized because most beginners won't turn their hips at all without it, and coming up higher on the ball of the foot is an easy way to teach them to transfer weight more easily. Then as the boxer progresses the weight transfer and hip rotation come more naturally, their ROM likely increases and the technique starts to look different, when really it's the same but more refined. The pros still do move their feet and their knees, it's just more subtle and you aren't seeing it.

"the exact same thing"

What an inane start to your trolling argument!

1st of all you are wrong.

They arnt the exact* same thing.

1) The push off version comes from a strong explosive push off/down using the thigh muscles.

2) The twisting foot version while it has some meshing down of the weight before you start, its to a MUCH lesser degree and its more gravity doing the work rather than the thigh muscles pushing off (initially) the force starts mostly from the twist not the push. Infact no pushing down at all is required for this method. So ha!

[jms]

So push down method, is it more powerful or less powerful than the foot twist method?

I prefer the foot twist method and I prefer to use it the way scrap recommends. But alot of pros, like Tyson, Tua, Fraizier, etc etc prefer the push down method.

Which is more powerful which is better?

Heres the push down/ push off 1st method

Redirect Notice


Heres foot twist 1st method

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmAFFvdGc_o

These methods are the exact same thing. You're getting confused because you're looking at how a beginner is taught technique in a controlled environment then how a pro applies that technique in a dynamic environment, seeing that they aren't identical and trying to figure out why. You said before that the difference is in one the pivot comes before the push, in the other the push comes first. That's not right, in both of them the push comes first. The pivot is emphasized because most beginners won't turn their hips at all without it, and coming up higher on the ball of the foot is an easy way to teach them to transfer weight more easily. Then as the boxer progresses the weight transfer and hip rotation come more naturally, their ROM likely increases and the technique starts to look different, when really it's the same but more refined. The pros still do move their feet and their knees, it's just more subtle and you aren't seeing it.

Not true, it is taught to grind a cigarette out, which takes some downwards pressure but not ALOT. (You mesh your weight down here simply by directing gravity onto one leg or the other leg, so the weights there ready to shift before you twist the foot)

To push off requires ALOT of downwards pressure. (you use your powerful thigh muscles to cause ALOT of downward pressure 1st which is something you dont do with the other method, this is the key difference!)

Also some teach not to twist the foot because they believe power is wasted from the slip between the foot and the ground.

Also its not so subtle I dont see it many instances there is 0 movement in the foot by the pros, sometimes there's a little, sometimes there's alot.

So you are wrong on all accounts.

No, the pivot method also pushes very hard into the ground IF it's done correctly. Edit: Also, with proper technique it's not predominantly the thigh muscles. That shows a fundamental lack of understanding of how the lower body works, otherwise a technical issue and dysfunction in the way your body moves.

The only time you won't see any pivot at all is when the weight is all the way forward. And that's far from ideal technique, but in the middle of a fight sometimes necessary and when you already have natural power you can get away with it pretty easily.

As scrap has said the hip is very limited in it's ability to rotate past where the foot is pointing. If you have the other guy positioned in that power arc you won't have to pivot very much. Often just a slight raise of the heel is enough. Or you can compromise by leaning. But either way, it's the same technique just with adjustments made. No matter what the push and thus the floor is where the power comes from.

[OMGWTF]

So push down method, is it more powerful or less powerful than the foot twist method?

I prefer the foot twist method and I prefer to use it the way scrap recommends. But alot of pros, like Tyson, Tua, Fraizier, etc etc prefer the push down method.

Which is more powerful which is better?

Heres the push down/ push off 1st method

Redirect Notice


Heres foot twist 1st method

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmAFFvdGc_o

These methods are the exact same thing. You're getting confused because you're looking at how a beginner is taught technique in a controlled environment then how a pro applies that technique in a dynamic environment, seeing that they aren't identical and trying to figure out why. You said before that the difference is in one the pivot comes before the push, in the other the push comes first. That's not right, in both of them the push comes first. The pivot is emphasized because most beginners won't turn their hips at all without it, and coming up higher on the ball of the foot is an easy way to teach them to transfer weight more easily. Then as the boxer progresses the weight transfer and hip rotation come more naturally, their ROM likely increases and the technique starts to look different, when really it's the same but more refined. The pros still do move their feet and their knees, it's just more subtle and you aren't seeing it.

Not true, it is taught to grind a cigarette out, which takes some downwards pressure but not ALOT. (You mesh your weight down here simply by directing gravity onto one leg or the other leg, so the weights there ready to shift before you twist the foot)

To push off requires ALOT of downwards pressure. (you use your powerful thigh muscles to cause ALOT of downward pressure 1st which is something you dont do with the other method, this is the key difference!)

Also some teach not to twist the foot because they believe power is wasted from the slip between the foot and the ground.

Also its not so subtle I dont see it many instances there is 0 movement in the foot by the pros, sometimes there's a little, sometimes there's alot.

So you are wrong on all accounts.

No, the pivot method also pushes very hard into the ground IF it's done correctly. Edit: Also, with proper technique it's not predominantly the thigh muscles. That shows a fundamental lack of understanding of how the lower body works, otherwise a technical issue and dysfunction in the way your body moves.

The only time you won't see any pivot at all is when the weight is all the way forward. And that's far from ideal technique, but in the middle of a fight sometimes necessary and when you already have natural power you can get away with it pretty easily.

As scrap has said the hip is very limited in it's ability to rotate past where the foot is pointing. If you have the other guy positioned in that power arc you won't have to pivot very much. Often just a slight raise of the heel is enough. Or you can compromise by leaning. But either way, it's the same technique just with adjustments made. No matter what the push and thus the floor is where the power comes from.

You can punch JUST from twisting the foot, 0 push off.

You can punch just from pushing off 0 twist of the foot.

2 different methods, that can also blur. But you are trying to argue that a punch that comes predominantly from a push off is the exact same thing as a punch that comes predominantly from a foot twist.

Your argument regarding fighters not doing it due to it being mid fight is also inane, because they do it the same way on the mits bag etc when theres no pressure.

Some fighters dont twist the foot and still get good hip rotation so scrap was completely wrong on that one.

hahahahaha

[jms]

So push down method, is it more powerful or less powerful than the foot twist method?

I prefer the foot twist method and I prefer to use it the way scrap recommends. But alot of pros, like Tyson, Tua, Fraizier, etc etc prefer the push down method.

Which is more powerful which is better?

Heres the push down/ push off 1st method

Redirect Notice


Heres foot twist 1st method

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmAFFvdGc_o

These methods are the exact same thing. You're getting confused because you're looking at how a beginner is taught technique in a controlled environment then how a pro applies that technique in a dynamic environment, seeing that they aren't identical and trying to figure out why. You said before that the difference is in one the pivot comes before the push, in the other the push comes first. That's not right, in both of them the push comes first. The pivot is emphasized because most beginners won't turn their hips at all without it, and coming up higher on the ball of the foot is an easy way to teach them to transfer weight more easily. Then as the boxer progresses the weight transfer and hip rotation come more naturally, their ROM likely increases and the technique starts to look different, when really it's the same but more refined. The pros still do move their feet and their knees, it's just more subtle and you aren't seeing it.

Not true, it is taught to grind a cigarette out, which takes some downwards pressure but not ALOT. (You mesh your weight down here simply by directing gravity onto one leg or the other leg, so the weights there ready to shift before you twist the foot)

To push off requires ALOT of downwards pressure. (you use your powerful thigh muscles to cause ALOT of downward pressure 1st which is something you dont do with the other method, this is the key difference!)

Also some teach not to twist the foot because they believe power is wasted from the slip between the foot and the ground.

Also its not so subtle I dont see it many instances there is 0 movement in the foot by the pros, sometimes there's a little, sometimes there's alot.

So you are wrong on all accounts.

No, the pivot method also pushes very hard into the ground IF it's done correctly. Edit: Also, with proper technique it's not predominantly the thigh muscles. That shows a fundamental lack of understanding of how the lower body works, otherwise a technical issue and dysfunction in the way your body moves.

The only time you won't see any pivot at all is when the weight is all the way forward. And that's far from ideal technique, but in the middle of a fight sometimes necessary and when you already have natural power you can get away with it pretty easily.

As scrap has said the hip is very limited in it's ability to rotate past where the foot is pointing. If you have the other guy positioned in that power arc you won't have to pivot very much. Often just a slight raise of the heel is enough. Or you can compromise by leaning. But either way, it's the same technique just with adjustments made. No matter what the push and thus the floor is where the power comes from.

You can punch JUST from twisting the foot, 0 push off.

You can punch just from pushing off 0 twist of the foot.

2 different methods, that can also blur. But you are trying to argue that a punch that comes predominantly from a push off is the exact same thing as a punch that comes predominantly from a foot twist.

Your argument regarding fighters not doing it due to it being mid fight is also inane, because they do it the same way on the mits bag etc when theres no pressure.

Some fighters dont twist the foot and still get good hip rotation so scrap was completely wrong on that one.

hahahahaha

If you punch just by twisting the foot you're doing it wrong. You might not think you're pushing, but you are, and the difference in feel has mostly to do with whether or not the weight is moving, and where it's moving to. Either way power's coming from the same place, and realistically it's actually coming from both feet.

It's already been explained that the hip has range of motion, but not much past where the foot is pointing. So you can throw a left hook and turn your hip all the way if that foot's pointed ahead. Can't do the same for a right straight though, you won't get full range of motion. Keep in mind of course that you don't even need full range of motion to have a ton of power. These are pros we're talking.

[OMGWTF]

So push down method, is it more powerful or less powerful than the foot twist method?

I prefer the foot twist method and I prefer to use it the way scrap recommends. But alot of pros, like Tyson, Tua, Fraizier, etc etc prefer the push down method.

Which is more powerful which is better?

Heres the push down/ push off 1st method

Redirect Notice


Heres foot twist 1st method

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmAFFvdGc_o

These methods are the exact same thing. You're getting confused because you're looking at how a beginner is taught technique in a controlled environment then how a pro applies that technique in a dynamic environment, seeing that they aren't identical and trying to figure out why. You said before that the difference is in one the pivot comes before the push, in the other the push comes first. That's not right, in both of them the push comes first. The pivot is emphasized because most beginners won't turn their hips at all without it, and coming up higher on the ball of the foot is an easy way to teach them to transfer weight more easily. Then as the boxer progresses the weight transfer and hip rotation come more naturally, their ROM likely increases and the technique starts to look different, when really it's the same but more refined. The pros still do move their feet and their knees, it's just more subtle and you aren't seeing it.

Not true, it is taught to grind a cigarette out, which takes some downwards pressure but not ALOT. (You mesh your weight down here simply by directing gravity onto one leg or the other leg, so the weights there ready to shift before you twist the foot)

To push off requires ALOT of downwards pressure. (you use your powerful thigh muscles to cause ALOT of downward pressure 1st which is something you dont do with the other method, this is the key difference!)

Also some teach not to twist the foot because they believe power is wasted from the slip between the foot and the ground.

Also its not so subtle I dont see it many instances there is 0 movement in the foot by the pros, sometimes there's a little, sometimes there's alot.

So you are wrong on all accounts.

No, the pivot method also pushes very hard into the ground IF it's done correctly. Edit: Also, with proper technique it's not predominantly the thigh muscles. That shows a fundamental lack of understanding of how the lower body works, otherwise a technical issue and dysfunction in the way your body moves.

The only time you won't see any pivot at all is when the weight is all the way forward. And that's far from ideal technique, but in the middle of a fight sometimes necessary and when you already have natural power you can get away with it pretty easily.

As scrap has said the hip is very limited in it's ability to rotate past where the foot is pointing. If you have the other guy positioned in that power arc you won't have to pivot very much. Often just a slight raise of the heel is enough. Or you can compromise by leaning. But either way, it's the same technique just with adjustments made. No matter what the push and thus the floor is where the power comes from.

You can punch JUST from twisting the foot, 0 push off.

You can punch just from pushing off 0 twist of the foot.

2 different methods, that can also blur. But you are trying to argue that a punch that comes predominantly from a push off is the exact same thing as a punch that comes predominantly from a foot twist.

Your argument regarding fighters not doing it due to it being mid fight is also inane, because they do it the same way on the mits bag etc when theres no pressure.

Some fighters dont twist the foot and still get good hip rotation so scrap was completely wrong on that one.

hahahahaha

If you punch just by twisting the foot you're doing it wrong. You might not think you're pushing, but you are, and the difference in feel has mostly to do with whether or not the weight is moving, and where it's moving to. Either way power's coming from the same place, and realistically it's actually coming from both feet.

It's already been explained that the hip has range of motion, but not much past where the foot is pointing. So you can throw a left hook and turn your hip all the way if that foot's pointed ahead. Can't do the same for a right straight though, you won't get full range of motion. Keep in mind of course that you don't even need full range of motion to have a ton of power. These are pros we're talking.

I like to argue with trolls sometimes but only if what they come back with sounds logical, if its too weak of an argument I loose interest.

The hip has a range of motion that can go quite far almost full lock out without moving the foot you just dont know how to do it obviously neither does the other guy.

Yawn

[Scrap]

Hopefully this will help. Stand facing a wall, standing straight both hands locked against the wall feet shoulder wide. Now lock the legs tight so they dont move and try moving the hips, Oh dear.