Some thought on Tyson

[Spicoli]

Tyson simply wouldn't have been Tyson minus Cus and Rooney. He was in a decent test and made adjustments, sounds like it worked itself out Fighting style wise like a Toney just wouldn't have worked cause that was as much icey mental awareness and a calm storm for James as it was shoulder roll and killer 6' inch inside counters. Tysons mentality was not some unshakable foundation.

[imp]

Every loss tyson had was way past his prime.

We have to look at pre douglas even though he had douglas down for ten seconds.

.....


And look at who he fought at that point in his career, a bunch of cling-ons from Larry Holmes' era

Talking of cling-ons..hows wlad?

Is his next fight in wwe this time?

Pot kettle black stones glass houses.

[El Kabong]

Wlad fought a few cling-ons from the Lewis era no doubt, BUT he's fought far more guys that Lewis didn't fight and guys who have came up during Wlad's title reign because his title run has lasted that long. All the guys Wlad has fought that Lennox fought he's beaten them easily and typically early in his career: Botha, Mercer, Jackson, the latest one was Rahman who was never in the fight.

[mikeeod]

Tyson was a great fighter, HUGE puncher and one of the most intimidating champs ever. That being said, the only prime great he beat was Spinks, who was really a light heavyweight. Tyson is a level below guys like Evander, Lewis...etc., and a couple of levels below Ali n Louis.

[Hulk]

Tyson was as good as he was ever going to be with Rooney. He reached his maximum potential IMO.

The style they had for him was perfect. Teach a tortured soul with great power and athleticism how to seek and destroy.

Worked well enough to strike fear into the hearts of other animals who seemingly feared nothing.

[p4pking]

Agreed Hulk. If you could hypothetically conjure up some prime Tyson who wasn't an emotional wreck or whatever, then sure other people could have done more with that raw ability, but as things were he was very lucky to have people who cared and groomed him to begin with. He was going to peak very young no matter what, and obviously needed to be harnessed pretty much.

[Andre]

Tyson was as good as he was ever going to be with Rooney. He reached his maximum potential IMO.

The style they had for him was perfect. Teach a tortured soul with great power and athleticism how to seek and destroy.

Worked well enough to strike fear into the hearts of other animals who seemingly feared nothing.

Yep and the crazy man persona wasn't stemmed, it was what it was and it was great to watch while it lasted.
Im happy with the outcome for Mike too these days he seems at peace with it all.

[IamInuit]

Recently rewatched Tyson vs Thomas fight

Tyson was not doing very well from round 2 to 6. Rooney was yelling at him some garbage "you gotta throw punches with bad intentions", his behavior in the corner reminded me of Teddy Atlas in Moorers fights. Mike won the fight because the did not throw any uppercut till the right moment in the round 6.

After this fight and previous with Bonecrasher Smith, I started to realise that Rooney was overrated. He was definitely better than Atlas and many others in the gym, mittwork and general stuff, but not in boxing strategy. What Mike should have done is to hire Angelo Dundee.

Agree completely. Rooney was familiarity. Look at the old codger

The seventy year old that knocks you out when you get lippy. D'amato's use of his number system was tailor made for that style of fighting. Tysons mastery of the code was jaw dropping

He was simply not the same fighter after Cus passed. Thomas actually laid the blueprint on how to fight Tyson with or without Cus but not having Cus in the corner for the first he found himself in trouble must have been tough.

[El Kabong]

@Spicoli Holyfield put Ray down with a body shot if I remember correctly. Still the man had an iron chin and had never been KO'd when Wlad fought him. With Wlad being a young heavyweight at the time it was a good solid test for him no shame in that fight. Now the Rahman fight...even I didn't want that one to happen but Hasim had earned a shot at Vitali who was out injured/retired at the time and Wlad gave him the fight.

Kevin Rooney was a decent enough trainer, I think he handled Tyson's success about as well as Tyson did. He was a young trainer, handed the reigns by Cus after Tyson's fallout with Atlas and with that meteoric rise to the top and domination of the division Rooney was kind of at the mercy of the situation as the authority figure Cus had passed away. You look at some top trainers you can see loads of GREAT fighters they've worked with...it's not that way for Rooney he's best known for Tyson, he worked a little with Paz, a little with Mormeck, had some ok success with Lenord Pierre Anasta until he ran up on John Duddy. Rooney also had some success with a heavyweight for a while Thomas Hayes, from Chicago who was 5'11 with a 72" reach (sound familiar?). But he's never recaptured the magic he had with Tyson.....but then again you look at Cus and he had a long career but with only a few successful very fighters Patterson, Torres, Tyson.

I think the peek-a-boo style works to an extent, but you're burning daylight from the start with that style. It's a hyper aggressive pressure fighter style.

[El Kabong]

I think everyone would welcome Kevin Rooney getting another fighter to the top of the sport again and I hope he's teaching the style he learned from Cus to a new generation so that style can stick around because when it works it REALLY works (though it has it's limits). Some people had high hopes for Teddy Atlas training Povetkin as well.

It's a shame these guys can't find the talent they need to gain access to.


I also think that Amateur boxing is really being hurt because professional trainers can't work with those kids AND have pro fighters at the same time (or some bullshit like that). I believe Rooney and/or Atlas would do well by boxing to help out the youth especially given the style they teach.


Also, ever wonder how Rooney would have done with any other heavyweight? Or how Tyson would have done with Atlas in the pro ranks?

[Master]

Rooney had drink issues and never did it with any other fighter subsequently.

Atlas is the type of trainer that the boxer would want to slap because he seems to play to the TV screen and try and make it like rocky movie.

[El Kabong]

Rooney had drink issues and never did it with any other fighter subsequently.

Atlas is the type of trainer that the boxer would want to slap because he seems to play to the TV screen and try and make it like rocky movie.

Both true...but some trainers will be that way, and some won't.

I think Rooney saw his dream crash and had trouble handling it when Tyson left him. I think Atlas is just built the way where he's urging intensity from a fighter and it makes him steal some spotlight.

[SugarBoxing]

Rooney had drink issues and never did it with any other fighter subsequently.

Atlas is the type of trainer that the boxer would want to slap because he seems to play to the TV screen and try and make it like rocky movie.

That is 100% true. Atlas is an etalon for the attention whore.

I can not help laughing everytime i read about high hopes regarding where would Mike go with Teddy.

[El Kabong]

Would Tyson have had as much success with another trainer? And I mean with a great one like Eddie Futch.

[Master]

Would Tyson have had as much success with another trainer? And I mean with a great one like Eddie Futch.

I could not see Tyson being as successful with another style like Toney or Frazier.