Floyd's competition vs Manny's competition

[mikeeod]

You are definitely being biased against Manny and not putting into context when the wins occurred. Manny's top wins:
JMM: Not the blown up lightweight that Floyd beat at 147, Manny fought the prime counter puncher at a weight that suited both. He fought him multiple times in JMM prime, while he was rated P4P. JMM is a HOFer easy.
Barrera: Coming off of a dominating win of Hamed and close win over Morales, he was P4P top 5 and a HUGE favorite to win. Pac destroyed him during his peak and at his best weight. HOFer.
Morales: P4P ranked when they fought the first time, Manny lost a close decision but came back to destroy him twice. Another HOF fighter Pac fought during his prime.
Cotto: One loss to Margo, a much bigger man and still viewed as in his prime and dangerous. This is a very underrated win, especially considering how Pac stopped him. HOFer.
Bradley: Ranked P4P #3 at the time and undefeated. Manny beat him twice (don't care what the judges said) during Bradley's prime.
Hatton: lesser version than the one Floyd beat, but one look at that fight n u can see it wouldn't have mattered. Manny destroys Hatton any time they fight like that.

JMM fought Floyd at WW, weighing 142, and got completely dominated. JMM fought Manny twice at WW, weighing 142 and 143, in which he was robbed in the first fight and knocked Manny spark out in the second.

People talk about how JMM was so small when he fought Floyd and then magically grew into a true WW when he fought Pac. No, he weighed the same when he fought Pac twice as he did when he fought Floyd. Explain to me the difference.

As far as Barrera goes, yup great win that I have absolutely no problem with. Cotto was always dangerous but what I said still stands: his stock had dropped considerably after getting destroyed by Margarito and then looking very mediocre vs Clottey. That's not my opinion, that's just a fact. Morales was a great win (but Morales also outboxed Manny in the first fight).

JMM didn't magically grow into ww, he matured and put muscle on to grow into the weight. Watch his fight vs Floyd n then last fight vs Manny. Night n day difference in size and density. Add to the fact that Floyd didn't meet the contractual weight by a couple of pounds, n it was a couple of guys from two different weight classes fighting. I always have said the Manny is a smaller man than Floyd. Much smaller. Floyd is a big 140 pounder and Manny is a 135 pounder. He started as a flyweight, and even though he was young he is only like 5'5" or 5'6".

[Beanflicker]

JMM didn't magically grow into ww, he matured and put muscle on to grow into the weight. Watch his fight vs Floyd n then last fight vs Manny. Night n day difference in size and density. Add to the fact that Floyd didn't meet the contractual weight by a couple of pounds, n it was a couple of guys from two different weight classes fighting. I always have said the Manny is a smaller man than Floyd. Much smaller. Floyd is a big 140 pounder and Manny is a 135 pounder. He started as a flyweight, and even though he was young he is only like 5'5" or 5'6".

JMM physically matured... at 37? Come on, man. And like I said, the JMM who fought Floyd weighed in the exact same as the JMM who fought Pac two years later: 142lbs (143lbs for the 4th Pac fight), so I have no idea what you're talking about in terms of a "night and day" size difference.

[mikeeod]

JMM didn't magically grow into ww, he matured and put muscle on to grow into the weight. Watch his fight vs Floyd n then last fight vs Manny. Night n day difference in size and density. Add to the fact that Floyd didn't meet the contractual weight by a couple of pounds, n it was a couple of guys from two different weight classes fighting. I always have said the Manny is a smaller man than Floyd. Much smaller. Floyd is a big 140 pounder and Manny is a 135 pounder. He started as a flyweight, and even though he was young he is only like 5'5" or 5'6".

JMM physically matured... at 37? Come on, man. And like I said, the JMM who fought Floyd weighed in the exact same as the JMM who fought Pac two years later: 142lbs (143lbs for the 4th Pac fight), so I have no idea what you're talking about in terms of a "night and day" size difference.

Look at the density of his build in both fights. He was much larger in the Manny fight. Not even debatable. And yes, once u stop running and making a conscious effort to keep ur weight down, u can actually fill out and mature into a larger, more muscular person. Weight training and different training habits benefitted JMM carrying the extra weight.

[Beanflicker]

Look at the density of his build in both fights. He was much larger in the Manny fight. Not even debatable. And yes, once u stop running and making a conscious effort to keep ur weight down, u can actually fill out and mature into a larger, more muscular person. Weight training and different training habits benefitted JMM carrying the extra weight.

There's no doubt that he was leaner and more cut in the Manny fights, but to say that it was night and day, or that it was somehow significant I think is really grasping at straws.





Here's the "night and day", "MUCH BIGGER" difference you're talking about.

Definitely more cut in the Manny pics, but you're going to tell me that that's a completely different guy? Come on dude.

[Rantcatrat]

Also, you can't have it both ways. Either Clottey is good and the Cotto win counts a lot or Clottey is bad and Cotto's win doesn't count for much. If he's good, it's impressive Manny shut him out. If he's bad, it shouldn't matter he was coming off a loss.

To me, I think styles make fights. Manny was so much faster than Clottey that Clottey couldn't afford to come out of his shell. Against Cotto, speed differential wasn't there and Clottey could fight more of his fight. It's a shame he wouldn't come out of his shell though to give it a shot.

Also, realize that when Manny faced Oscar, he was a -200 underdog. Most experts predicted Manny to lose that fight. Now when we look back Oscar seemed drained but at the time it was a risky fight to take. The risk factor at the time of the fight should probably be factored into how high it is ranked to an extent too.

[Beanflicker]

Also, you can't have it both ways. Either Clottey is good and the Cotto win counts a lot or Clottey is bad and Cotto's win doesn't count for much. If he's good, it's impressive Manny shut him out. If he's bad, it shouldn't matter he was coming off a loss.

To me, I think styles make fights. Manny was so much faster than Clottey that Clottey couldn't afford to come out of his shell. Against Cotto, speed differential wasn't there and Clottey could fight more of his fight. It's a shame he wouldn't come out of his shell though to give it a shot.

Also, realize that when Manny faced Oscar, he was a -200 underdog. Most experts predicted Manny to lose that fight. Now when we look back Oscar seemed drained but at the time it was a risky fight to take. The risk factor at the time of the fight should probably be factored into how high it is ranked to an extent too.

I think Clottey is a hell of a fighter and I was impressed with his win, but the fact remained he was coming off of a loss.

Cotto is great but when he looked mediocre vs Clottey, a lot of people started questioning whether or not he was washed up.

[Master]

You forget he came from lightweight and knocked out the champ.
DLH who volunteered to fight at welterweight so he was to blame and the fool. Pac Man wiped him out.
Ricky Hatton may have had a bad camp but Manny wiped him out at his weight.
Cotto was great win and performance.
Clottely beaten easily.
Marg was his most impressive performance against a much bigger man.
Then it started to go down in performance against Shane Mosley, JMM, Tim Bradley, Brandon Rios and probably Chris Algeri.
To be fair I do not argue who fought the better opposition as I do not care. What I do care is that they never fought one another 2009ish when Manny was awesome and Floyd used the excuse that he must be on drugs. Both of them are prats.

[east end bob]

You are definitely being biased against Manny and not putting into context when the wins occurred. Manny's top wins:
JMM: Not the blown up lightweight that Floyd beat at 147, Manny fought the prime counter puncher at a weight that suited both. He fought him multiple times in JMM prime, while he was rated P4P. JMM is a HOFer easy.
Barrera: Coming off of a dominating win of Hamed and close win over Morales, he was P4P top 5 and a HUGE favorite to win. Pac destroyed him during his peak and at his best weight. HOFer.
Morales: P4P ranked when they fought the first time, Manny lost a close decision but came back to destroy him twice. Another HOF fighter Pac fought during his prime.
Cotto: One loss to Margo, a much bigger man and still viewed as in his prime and dangerous. This is a very underrated win, especially considering how Pac stopped him. HOFer.
Bradley: Ranked P4P #3 at the time and undefeated. Manny beat him twice (don't care what the judges said) during Bradley's prime.
Hatton: lesser version than the one Floyd beat, but one look at that fight n u can see it wouldn't have mattered. Manny destroys Hatton any time they fight like that.

JMM fought Floyd at WW, weighing 142, and got completely dominated. JMM fought Manny twice at WW, weighing 142 and 143, in which he was robbed in the first fight and knocked Manny spark out in the second.

People talk about how JMM was so small when he fought Floyd and then magically grew into a true WW when he fought Pac. No, he weighed the same when he fought Pac twice as he did when he fought Floyd. Explain to me the difference.

As far as Barrera goes, yup great win that I have absolutely no problem with. Cotto was always dangerous but what I said still stands: his stock had dropped considerably after getting destroyed by Margarito and then looking very mediocre vs Clottey. That's not my opinion, that's just a fact. Morales was a great win (but Morales also outboxed Manny in the first fight).

JMM didn't magically grow into ww, he matured and put muscle on to grow into the weight. Watch his fight vs Floyd n then last fight vs Manny. Night n day difference in size and density. Add to the fact that Floyd didn't meet the contractual weight by a couple of pounds, n it was a couple of guys from two different weight classes fighting. I always have said the Manny is a smaller man than Floyd. Much smaller. Floyd is a big 140 pounder and Manny is a 135 pounder. He started as a flyweight, and even though he was young he is only like 5'5" or 5'6".

This is a sensible view. Both are great fighters. Floyd's style for me is dull whereas Manny is exciting. I would stay up all night to watch Manny but not Floyd. Having said that, Floyd is bigger, much bigger, in boxing at the highest level that is a crucial factor. I know there are many examples that may be quoted to disprove this but the fact remains that "GOOD BIG'UN WILL BEAT A GOOD LITTL'UN! most times. Manny therefore has a problem But I would love him to prove me wrong.