Floyd's competition vs Manny's competition

[SlimTrae]

Interesting direction this thread has turned.
If Duran @ 5'7 (66 inch reach) is brought up as beating a prime leonard 5'10 (74 inch reach), then does that make Duran better than a (prime) Leonard?

When SRL won the rematch Nov 80' was Duran in his prime? Or did a (prime)Ray avenge a loss to an (out of prime) Duran?

What was SRL's prime? He turned pro in 77' - 82. One fight in 84. & was he still in his prime when he came back in 87? He went 3-3.


As for PBF- he fought a slick, fast south paw in Judah ( I think Benitez for SRL) was better than Judah, but IMO they compare as mobile fighters with speed & pop.

Castillo is no Duran, by a longshot, but PBF took on a bodypunching hombre for sure & had to take the title from Hernandez @ 5'11. It was no run fight, PBF stood and fought.

SRL 5'10 vs Hearns 6'1 w/71% KO ratio per boxrec -- SRL was down on all card till the KO
PBF @ 5'8 vs Corrales 5'10 1/2 w/73% KO ratio per boxrec-- PBF dropped Diego 5 times

SRL simply didn't fight long enough to merit a better resume than PBF. struggled with Benitez & Hearns to the end & He didn't clean out a single divison- Like Duran did. So are we now comparing Duran's competition to PBF's?

Since Pacquio never cleaned a division either -lost in almost every weight class he fought & had no top names from 95-03'- technically no (in prime)competition till 09' IMO.
...now JMM cleaned out the same divison as Duran.
So would it now change from PBF vs Pac comp to: JMM vs Duran's comp?

@ LW JMM beat linear champ Casamayor, the man who called out Pac (Juan Diaz) the other dude who called out Pac (Katsidis) This was after moving up from where he beat Gainer, Salido, Juarez & MAB.

One could argue that PBF's comp is better than Pac's, SRL's
& JMM's comp was better than Duran @ Fther & LW. Duran fought more @ LW, but also had more tomato can-fighters as well.

Head to Head: Duran vs JMM @ LW would be a dream fight. I'd edge Duran, but thats speculation. Factually? JMM & PBF has fought more quality and versatile competition- with PBF doing it 18 years; quantity and quality.

[Beanflicker]

I think for sure Floyd fought better opposition overall than SRL just by numbers.

I will say that I think SRL's win over Hagler was a better win than any of Floyd's wins.

[Master]

I do not like Leonard (or Floyd for that matter) but his victory over Hearns was what a great fighter is made of. He was fighting another great fighter who had huge power and was behind on the cards but he came back. I do not believe Floyd would have beaten that Hearns, but that is unfair of Floyd because that was not his best weight.

[SlimTrae]

I do not like Leonard (or Floyd for that matter) but his victory over Hearns was what a great fighter is made of. He was fighting another great fighter who had huge power and was behind on the cards but he came back. I do not believe Floyd would have beaten that Hearns, but that is unfair of Floyd because that was not his best weight.

I can't argue that, styles do make fights.

Sorry to repeat- but I am playing the D-advocate. I prefer the era of Hearns-Haglar-Duran-SRL over the current one.

[Beanflicker]

For a guy with only 40 fights, Leonard packed a lot into his time in boxing.

IMO Leonard faced more adversity in his 40 fight career than a lot of old timers faced in their 200 fight careers.

[Master]

I do not like Leonard (or Floyd for that matter) but his victory over Hearns was what a great fighter is made of. He was fighting another great fighter who had huge power and was behind on the cards but he came back. I do not believe Floyd would have beaten that Hearns, but that is unfair of Floyd because that was not his best weight.

I can't argue that, styles do make fights.

Sorry to repeat- but I am playing the D-advocate. I prefer the era of Hearns-Haglar-Duran-SRL over the current one.

I know you are playing devils advocate but I think Leonard got the eye injured against Hearns.

[SlimTrae]

I do not like Leonard (or Floyd for that matter) but his victory over Hearns was what a great fighter is made of. He was fighting another great fighter who had huge power and was behind on the cards but he came back. I do not believe Floyd would have beaten that Hearns, but that is unfair of Floyd because that was not his best weight.

I can't argue that, styles do make fights.

Sorry to repeat- but I am playing the D-advocate. I prefer the era of Hearns-Haglar-Duran-SRL over the current one.

I know you are playing devils advocate but I think Leonard got the eye injured against Hearns.

Agreed. Didn't a boxer previous start the retina problems? I've read about it....awhile back.

[Master]

I do not like Leonard (or Floyd for that matter) but his victory over Hearns was what a great fighter is made of. He was fighting another great fighter who had huge power and was behind on the cards but he came back. I do not believe Floyd would have beaten that Hearns, but that is unfair of Floyd because that was not his best weight.

I can't argue that, styles do make fights.

Sorry to repeat- but I am playing the D-advocate. I prefer the era of Hearns-Haglar-Duran-SRL over the current one.

I know you are playing devils advocate but I think Leonard got the eye injured against Hearns.

Agreed. Didn't a boxer previous start the retina problems? I've read about it....awhile back.

His eye was seriously injured during the Hearns fight and was never put right until after he fought Hagler. What I am saying is Leonard could have avoided fighting such a dangerous challenge by making all sorts of demands to get out of the fight because his career was cut short because of it. Yet Sugar Ray did not and still does not claim to be the best ever.

[SlimTrae]

I think for sure Floyd fought better opposition overall than SRL just by numbers.

I will say that I think SRL's win over Hagler was a better win than any of Floyd's wins.

Agreed.

Haglar is one of the greatest MW's of all time and to do it coming out of retirement is off the charts fabulous.

[mikeeod]

Interesting direction this thread has turned.
If Duran @ 5'7 (66 inch reach) is brought up as beating a prime leonard 5'10 (74 inch reach), then does that make Duran better than a (prime) Leonard? Yes, it's why Duran is usually ranked higher than Leonard on most p4p lists.

When SRL won the rematch Nov 80' was Duran in his prime? Or did a (prime)Ray avenge a loss to an (out of prime) Duran? Duran started his decline after beating Leonard the first time, partying and barely training for the rematch and putting on tremendous weight prior to the rematch and then made this a habit for the rest of his career.

What was SRL's prime? He turned pro in 77' - 82. One fight in 84. & was he still in his prime when he came back in 87? He went 3-3. Not sure what point you are trying to make here, but wouldn't consider him prime in 87.


As for PBF- he fought a slick, fast south paw in Judah ( I think Benitez for SRL) was better than Judah, but IMO they compare as mobile fighters with speed & pop. Only you would feel they are comparable. Judah was destroyed vs. Kostya and is nowhere near the boxer ATG Benitez was. If you consider them comparable, it is only because you are completely biased and want to fluff Floyd's record.

Castillo is no Duran, by a longshot, but PBF took on a bodypunching hombre for sure & had to take the title from Hernandez @ 5'11. It was no run fight, PBF stood and fought. Castillo won the first fight, and wasn't an elite fighter. Hernandez stated prior to the Floyd fight that he was done boxing and would retire after the Floyd fight. He didn't offer very much resistance at all.

SRL 5'10 vs Hearns 6'1 w/71% KO ratio per boxrec -- SRL was down on all card till the KO
PBF @ 5'8 vs Corrales 5'10 1/2 w/73% KO ratio per boxrec-- PBF dropped Diego 5 times This is a joke. Hearns vs. Chico? No comparison. Hearns is an ATG, prime, undefeated welter who destroyed guys like Cuevas and Duran. Chico was a formidable opponent and good win, but his big win was over Gainer. Hearns was versatile and his fight vs. Leonard is one of the best in history, as was his fight vs. Hagler. Chico had a great win and fight vs. Castillo, but Castillo is no where near the level of Hagler/leonard. This was a pathetic and sad comparison.

SRL simply didn't fight long enough to merit a better resume than PBF. struggled with Benitez & Hearns to the end & He didn't clean out a single divison- Like Duran did. So are we now comparing Duran's competition to PBF's? Leonard fought the much better competition. It's not even open for debate. Floyd feasted on more sub par competition than Leonard, and he never fought the ATGs in their prime like Leonard did.

Since Pacquio never cleaned a division either -lost in almost every weight class he fought & had no top names from 95-03'- technically no (in prime)competition till 09' IMO. You are in denial and this is an ignorant statement. Barrera was ranked p4p when Pac fought him. Ledwaba was undefeated. Morales was prime as was JMM. Pac never lost at Featherweight. Pretty much your whole statement is wrong.
...now JMM cleaned out the same divison as Duran.
So would it now change from PBF vs Pac comp to: JMM vs Duran's comp?

@ LW JMM beat linear champ Casamayor, the man who called out Pac (Juan Diaz) the other dude who called out Pac (Katsidis) This was after moving up from where he beat Gainer, Salido, Juarez & MAB.

One could argue that PBF's comp is better than Pac's, SRL's
& JMM's comp was better than Duran @ Fther & LW. Duran fought more @ LW, but also had more tomato can-fighters as well. I think you are the only one, maybe Rocco and TMT also, who would argue that PBF had better comp. It's pretty silly, and most knowledgable historians completely disagree with you. You are delusional.

Head to Head: Duran vs JMM @ LW would be a dream fight. I'd edge Duran, but thats speculation. Factually? JMM & PBF has fought more quality and versatile competition- with PBF doing it 18 years; quantity and quality.

JMM has fought very good competition, but not more versatile or better. Floyd isn't even in the debate.