Jones Jr/Toney on McClellan (and Benn/Eubank)

[X]

Yes, a lot of people did watch his shows and feel they know him (I would be like that about David Attenborough). They will be gutted about this.

I am sure he was a good bloke (and I am secretly quite impressed that he bought land quietly to set aside as a nature reserve)

BUT....... the world is full of politically correct social fascists who try and tell other people how to behave and how to think all the time. Are we expected to suddenly all be fans as he is now dead? You should be sorry because you liked the guy or respected him, not just because he was "famous" or just because he is dead. Who mourns the hundreds of thousands of people who die every day?

I don't like to think of people who have a preconception of what I should think. They can get fucked.

When i die, I would like my nearest and dearest to think/act appropriately to their relationship with me. I would not expect people who didn't know me to be wailing and bawling around the place. maybe bilbo will be, I don't know!

I am not trying to offend people here, it just seems that people generally are so weak and delicate that just about anything offends someone these days and they jump on a bandwagon to get angry and complain about it. Hence my earlier comment that people should not have the right to be offended in a 'free' society.

[AdamGB]

I would not expect people who didn't know me to be wailing and bawling around the place. maybe bilbo will be, I don't know!

So I take it I won't be aloud to mourn you then?!

[Kev]

Yes, a lot of people did watch his shows and feel they know him (I would be like that about David Attenborough). They will be gutted about this.

I am sure he was a good bloke (and I am secretly quite impressed that he bought land quietly to set aside as a nature reserve)

BUT....... the world is full of politically correct social fascists who try and tell other people how to behave and how to think all the time. Are we expected to suddenly all be fans as he is now dead? You should be sorry because you liked the guy or respected him, not just because he was "famous" or just because he is dead. Who mourns the hundreds of thousands of people who die every day?

I don't like to think of people who have a preconception of what I should think. They can get fucked.

When i die, I would like my nearest and dearest to think/act appropriately to their relationship with me. I would not expect people who didn't know me to be wailing and bawling around the place. maybe bilbo will be, I don't know!

I am not trying to offend people here, it just seems that people generally are so weak and delicate that just about anything offends someone these days and they jump on a bandwagon to get angry and complain about it. Hence my earlier comment that people should not have the right to be offended in a 'free' society.

I think you are completely missing the point here. Having compassion for others isn't a sign of conformity or social slavery it's actually one of the qualites that seperates us from the animals.

I'm quite sure that the average sheep cares nothing for the survival of it's own family members let alone the flock in the next field. If you too are similarly unable to feel compassion towards those you don't know you actually have taken a step back down the evolutionary tree.

Compassion and respect towards other's represent two of mankind's highest and most noble of traits. If you have neither and cannot see or care beyond your own interests that actually makes you more of a social clone not less.

The kind of people that are the easiest to control are those whose interests are purely selfish, this kind of person can easiliy be contented and made docile by those who wish to take away his liberties and freedom. It's something of an irony is it not, that you are predisposed to become the kind of drone-like person whom you claim to despise.

[raleights]

I can't exactly come in here and throw big words at ya bilbo because lets face I'm dumb and even worse, from texas! But what you're saying is that X must conform to your way of thinking otherwise he's somehow beneath you. Not the case, let me drop some knowledge on ya

I agree with what X says for one, and yes for my own selfish reasons. I've had to experience people dying all around me, some my age some older, some close, some not. Maybe you're not used to the concept that we're all leaving this plane of existence someday, but me and some blue text using cocksucker clearly are. Death just doesn't bother me, so yes it's sad for his family and everyone else who was close to him, just not to me - and it shouldn't be overwhelming to anyone who didn't know the guy and like it or not, if you were overwhelmed it's a huge sign of weakness. Maybe you should feel a little bit of compassion, but life can end as quick as it begins, just the nature of the beast - it's something that must be accepted. Maybe I'm still bitter about taking beatings from my psychotically drug addicted father till I was 17 - whatever the reason this just didn't hit any nerves with me.

When mommy and daddy shield you from all the bad things in life, incidents like this probably will hit a nerve with ya. But for anyone who's been around and seen the scary shit thats out there it's just not that big of a deal. Much worse things than death exist, hopefully you'll never know that bilbo.

[littledave]

I think you are completely missing the point here. Having compassion for others isn't a sign of conformity or social slavery it's actually one of the qualites that seperates us from the animals.

Bang on about that bit mate - if I could give you a cool click I would.

[X]

I think you are completely missing the point here. Having compassion for others isn't a sign of conformity or social slavery it's actually one of the qualites that seperates us from the animals.

Bang on about that bit mate - if I could give you a cool click I would.

Shutup or I'll set BigDave on you!

[X]

I would not expect people who didn't know me to be wailing and bawling around the place. maybe bilbo will be, I don't know!

So I take it I won't be aloud to mourn you then?!

Only if you do it quietly !

[littledave]

I think you are completely missing the point here. Having compassion for others isn't a sign of conformity or social slavery it's actually one of the qualites that seperates us from the animals.

Bang on about that bit mate - if I could give you a cool click I would.

Shutup or I'll set BigDave on you!

Damn! Only a few posts on here and you've already found the one thing I fear the most... IL GRANDE

[X]

I think you are completely missing the point here. Having compassion for others isn't a sign of conformity or social slavery it's actually one of the qualites that seperates us from the animals.

I'm quite sure that the average sheep cares nothing for the survival of it's own family members let alone the flock in the next field. If you too are similarly unable to feel compassion towards those you don't know you actually have taken a step back down the evolutionary tree.

Compassion and respect towards other's represent two of mankind's highest and most noble of traits. If you have neither and cannot see or care beyond your own interests that actually makes you more of a social clone not less.

The kind of people that are the easiest to control are those whose interests are purely selfish, this kind of person can easiliy be contented and made docile by those who wish to take away his liberties and freedom. It's something of an irony is it not, that you are predisposed to become the kind of drone-like person whom you claim to despise.

This is a good argument! (By the way, Raleights, thanks for the support I have never thought you were dumb!)

Bilbo - you're right, having compassion for others is not a sign of social slavery ....... but being EXPECTED to, and then being criticised for not conforming, most definitely is!

Don't be insulting sheep on this forum, three million Welsh people will declare a fatwa on you if you're not careful! You willl have to go in hiding like Salman Rushdie.

Incidentally, you sound like you think that humanity is at the top of the evolutionary pile, and therefore that any deviation from 'human' behavour is automatically a step down the evolutionary tree. If you had really been a fan of Steve Irwin you would know that he thought humanity was a dead end offshoot from evolution (rather than its crowning glory) , as we possess too many self destructive consumerist tendencies to ensure sustainable propagation of the species. Humanity's great compassion should be judged by it's evidence. Hmmn: Iraq, insurgents, suicide bombers, WMD, religious wars, trade embargoes, genocide, race riots, slavery, empires, drug empires, social inequality, starvation in an age of obesity, paedophilia, animal extinctions. I would say that, looking objectively at the evidence, we would not be too near the top of that ol' evolutionary tree?

Why are we better than the sheep? Because we build things that destroy other things? because we invented money? Because we have the ability to ruin our habitat? Because we have language that we can lie in? Because we have a perception of 'self' (careful with that one as it goes against what you said earlier about selfishness)

You are also (in my opinion, anyway) wrong about selfish people being easier to control. So called 'unselfish' people with busybody meddling social consciences etc etc always think they know better about what people want than the people do themselves? It is 'unselfish' people who start wars because they want to tell other people how to think, or behave, or worship! I don't see how I can be made docile by someone taking away my liberties and freedoms . I may be missing your point on this one, but what if my selfishness revolves around my personal liberties for example?

People with so-called social consciences are much easier to manipulate, as they always are rooted in the attutudes and mores of their time. Good quote: "All idealism is falsehood in the face of neccessity" - Steve Irwin was a nice guy, and I think murder is wrong .... but I would have killed him and eaten him if I needed to. People who moralise and try and tell others what to do and how to think are people with full bellies, free from REAL danger and inequalities and therefore able to judge and sermonise from a safe distance. Raleights point about people being shielded from things holds very true, but I must admit to mixed feelings about being a 'blue text using cocksucker'

...... so, James Toney is on a higher plane of existence that Kofi Annan and Mother Theresa (oh f uck, she's dead, I had better be sad and miserable about it and evryone else has better be too or I will be offended

[WWatt]

What is this shit?

[Kev]

I think you are completely missing the point here. Having compassion for others isn't a sign of conformity or social slavery it's actually one of the qualites that seperates us from the animals.

I'm quite sure that the average sheep cares nothing for the survival of it's own family members let alone the flock in the next field. If you too are similarly unable to feel compassion towards those you don't know you actually have taken a step back down the evolutionary tree.

Compassion and respect towards other's represent two of mankind's highest and most noble of traits. If you have neither and cannot see or care beyond your own interests that actually makes you more of a social clone not less.

The kind of people that are the easiest to control are those whose interests are purely selfish, this kind of person can easiliy be contented and made docile by those who wish to take away his liberties and freedom. It's something of an irony is it not, that you are predisposed to become the kind of drone-like person whom you claim to despise.

This is a good argument! (By the way, Raleights, thanks for the support I have never thought you were dumb!)

Bilbo - you're right, having compassion for others is not a sign of social slavery ....... but being EXPECTED to, and then being criticised for not conforming, most definitely is!

Don't be insulting sheep on this forum, three million Welsh people will declare a fatwa on you if you're not careful! You willl have to go in hiding like Salman Rushdie.

Incidentally, you sound like you think that humanity is at the top of the evolutionary pile, and therefore that any deviation from 'human' behavour is automatically a step down the evolutionary tree. If you had really been a fan of Steve Irwin you would know that he thought humanity was a dead end offshoot from evolution (rather than its crowning glory) , as we possess too many self destructive consumerist tendencies to ensure sustainable propagation of the species. Humanity's great compassion should be judged by it's evidence. Hmmn: Iraq, insurgents, suicide bombers, WMD, religious wars, trade embargoes, genocide, race riots, slavery, empires, drug empires, social inequality, starvation in an age of obesity, paedophilia, animal extinctions. I would say that, looking objectively at the evidence, we would not be too near the top of that ol' evolutionary tree?

Why are we better than the sheep? Because we build things that destroy other things? because we invented money? Because we have the ability to ruin our habitat? Because we have language that we can lie in? Because we have a perception of 'self' (careful with that one as it goes against what you said earlier about selfishness)

You are also (in my opinion, anyway) wrong about selfish people being easier to control. So called 'unselfish' people with busybody meddling social consciences etc etc always think they know better about what people want than the people do themselves? It is 'unselfish' people who start wars because they want to tell other people how to think, or behave, or worship! I don't see how I can be made docile by someone taking away my liberties and freedoms . I may be missing your point on this one, but what if my selfishness revolves around my personal liberties for example?

People with so-called social consciences are much easier to manipulate, as they always are rooted in the attutudes and mores of their time. Good quote: "All idealism is falsehood in the face of neccessity" - Steve Irwin was a nice guy, and I think murder is wrong .... but I would have killed him and eaten him if I needed to. People who moralise and try and tell others what to do and how to think are people with full bellies, free from REAL danger and inequalities and therefore able to judge and sermonise from a safe distance. Raleights point about people being shielded from things holds very true, but I must admit to mixed feelings about being a 'blue text using cocksucker'

...... so, James Toney is on a higher plane of existence that Kofi Annan and Mother Theresa (oh f uck, she's dead, I had better be sad and miserable about it and evryone else has better be too or I will be offended

Haha great reply I have to say. :P

I think we are both maybe taking this to extremes now. Yours was a very lucid and cogent retort but not really related to what we are discussing. I admit though that I probably started that by equating you to a sheep

I agree with you about social conformity and also about there being bad things that happen in life. I can assure you that most of you will not have had a harder life than me, a pedophile father, a wife beating step dad and I almost died of cancer at 25. Now 32 I am unable to work as I have severely damaged lungs and other health problems.

However none of the above has any relevance to me being impolite about somebody else's death. If someone dies and I announce 'I don't care', that has absolutely nothing to do with social freedom, different sets of values etc, it's just a sign of rudeness.

By the same token, whats to stop you from urinating on a poor homeless man who'se alseep in the gutter? I mean sure other people might try and make you conform and say thats it wrong but what the hell, you had a hard life and have seen real misery so you go right ahead and piss on that poor fucker!

I'm sure you can see what I'm trying to say, politeness and courtesy are two simple virtues that cost nothing and yet help make the world a better place.

Sure you are perfectly entitled to your view that Steve Irwin's death is completely irrelevent to you but out of politeness and courtesy it's not nice to say so publicly. It has nothing to do with conformists trying to hold you down.

Some people see nothing wrong with open masturbation but again out of politeness and courtesy to others, it's a behaviour that is deemed unnacceptable by society at large, although not with doggers

[X]

Nice to be on a forum where people can disagree about things and not hurl insults around unless it's funny.

Yes, it's impolite to say some things and I will often just say them to be a devil's advocate.

I too find it hard to work, but that is due to my laziness (!) Got to work for the Man to pay the bills.

"By the same token, whats to stop you from urinating on a poor homeless man who'se alseep in the gutter? " - this is a really good point you make and I think I will start another thread about this, as I often piss on homeless people in gutters but always feel that peopel somehow disapprove?

Have a cc

[Kev]

Nice to be on a forum where people can disagree about things and not hurl insults around unless it's funny.

Yes, it's impolite to say some things and I will often just say them to be a devil's advocate.

I too find it hard to work, but that is due to my laziness (!) Got to work for the Man to pay the bills.

"By the same token, whats to stop you from urinating on a poor homeless man who'se alseep in the gutter? " - this is a really good point you make and I think I will start another thread about this, as I often piss on homeless people in gutters but always feel that peopel somehow disapprove?

Have a cc

lol, that cracked me up. You should feel very guilty about that but if you set them on fire first then it's ok as long as your'e urinating on them solely to put them out

Oh and back

[X]

You have just predicted my new post which I have put up.

Damn

[Kev]

You have just predicted my new post which I have put up.

Damn

Don't feel bad we just have the same sense of humour is all. Actually it's a great thing, two strangers strike up a bond on an anonymous forum. Maybe we could clean up the streets together? One could ignite, the other could douse, kind of like a good cop bad cop routine. :P