Mike Tyson is TBE

[p4pking]

On Mike Tyson on lb for lb toplists...

Usually I would claim that no HW who has ALWAYS boxed in the unlimited division can ever rate lb for lb. Because only in the limited divisions do fighters require the complete set of boxing skills and attributes to be successful.

Therefore I would normally only consider former CW's whom were at the top of their game (David Haye, Evander Holyfield etc) who stepped up to HW as lb for lb material, because they proved their worth against guys their own size first and then stepped up to fight guys considerably larger than themselves at HW.

If I had to pick any NATURAL HW (200+) however who always boxed in the unlimited divsion, it would definitely be Mike Tyson, for a lb for lb toplist.

Whether he'd be successful with his style at CW were we to shrink him down to size though is unclear. He certainly seemed to have a great enough skillset for sure!

My point was that Mike Tyson mastered the essence of boxing science to the point, that he became too good for his time. It spoiled him.

In my opinion, technically, he was far advanced than all fighters up to this date.

Oh there's absolutely no doubt about that. In fact he definitely did possess the skills necessary for a lb for lb comparison as well, now I can reflect more clearly on it.

He would have BADLY battered anything that came before as if they were nothing but bums from the street.

Alas.. Unless things have changed around here lately, you are about to earn the disrespect of a great many posters.

Stand by for the "Jack Johnson, Louis and Ali would have "TAKEN" Mike Tyson" responses LOL

Nice to see you back Max! Do you still feel the indomitable pugilistic specimen that only modern training and sports science could have produced, being of course Chrs Arreola, woud have beaten everyone before Tyson as well??

Why would you ask that? Because he lost to Bermane Stiverne.

Either Stiverne, Arreola or Tyson culd have lined every single one of them and knocked them out.

Please show me a 6'4" 240lb guy as tough and can fight like Chris from before 1980? Yeah right!

Chris was WINNING that fight before he got tagged flush by a counter right hand from one of the hardest punchers in history. I'd say that's a pretty good effort if you ask me.

Oh and by the way, hi

Hardly, I made fun of you for rating Arreola so highly well before he proved me right What on earth make Stiverne and Arreola comparable to Tyson in your eyes though, aside from the fact that they happen to have come after him. Why do I have to list a 6'4 240 lb guy who could beat Arreola instead of the dozens and dozens of men slightly smaller than that who would have beaten him? You don't think Tyson would have absolutely steamrolled him? If so, why is size such a benchmark to you?

[Max Power]

I think Tyson would have great chances vs Chris Arreola or Stiverne.

But

Tyson never once beat anybody as big +good as Arreola

Or as good+heavy as Stiverne

So to answer your question, I DO rank Tyson ahead of these guys, but whether he would win against them in fact is an open question.

One thing is for sure, Tyson was stretched to the limit by guys whom either of these guys would have banged straight out. So no, Tyson could not steam roll either of them.

I still rate Arreola just a notch below Stiverne now, they are rather evenly matched.

Considering Tyson vs these guys is a valid question because he WAS special.

No pre80's HW was special, the better ones won against bums and cruisers mainly! With little exception.

Pre80's HW's could barely even box as we would describe it today.

[p4pking]

You should probably just leave again.

[walrus]

You should probably just leave again.

Ouch

[Master]

I think Tyson would have great chances vs Chris Arreola or Stiverne.

But

Tyson never once beat anybody as big +good as Arreola

Or as good+heavy as Stiverne

So to answer your question, I DO rank Tyson ahead of these guys, but whether he would win against them in fact is an open question.

One thing is for sure, Tyson was stretched to the limit by guys whom either of these guys would have banged straight out. So no, Tyson could not steam roll either of them.

I still rate Arreola just a notch below Stiverne now, they are rather evenly matched.

Considering Tyson vs these guys is a valid question because he WAS special.

No pre80's HW was special, the better ones won against bums and cruisers mainly! With little exception.

Pre80's HW's could barely even box as we would describe it today.

You have reminded me what a stupid poster you are. Even Arreleo's mum would slap you for saying such a stupid thing.

[Max Power]

I think Tyson would have great chances vs Chris Arreola or Stiverne.

But

Tyson never once beat anybody as big +good as Arreola

Or as good+heavy as Stiverne

So to answer your question, I DO rank Tyson ahead of these guys, but whether he would win against them in fact is an open question.

One thing is for sure, Tyson was stretched to the limit by guys whom either of these guys would have banged straight out. So no, Tyson could not steam roll either of them.

I still rate Arreola just a notch below Stiverne now, they are rather evenly matched.

Considering Tyson vs these guys is a valid question because he WAS special.

No pre80's HW was special, the better ones won against bums and cruisers mainly! With little exception.

Pre80's HW's could barely even box as we would describe it today.

You have reminded me what a stupid poster you are. Even Arreleo's mum would slap you for saying such a stupid thing.

Yes well I often wonder what guys like Arreola or Stiverne fr that mattter, think about being compared to such ludicrous opponents as they have been subjected to. Guys that boxed 50 or more years earlier which were about 5 weight classes below them and often failed to score knockouts against even WORSE opponents over a full 15 or even 20 rounds!

Guys like Jimmy Young etc can lost multiple fights against guys who would ever even box today, Yet someone like Arreola loses against guys as strong as never existed before and suddenly he can't box?

Something is wrong with this picture.

Fortunately Mike Tyson knew exactly where it was at..

I'll dig up the quote from Mike soon...

There is a very easy way to judge a fighters competition. It's a no brainer method.

Everybody knows it..

"Every era, is by and large, better (stronger, faster (p4p) and more skilled) than the one preceded it. Because athletes and sportsmen get better and better from generation to generation."

THIS^^^ Is simply how it works, and is supported by every fact, every statistic one could viably concoct. And it certainly LOOKS that way to me.

Mike Tyson vs Chris Arreola = valid debate

For example..

Wladimir Klitschko vs Jess Willard = definitely does NOT!

[Master]

Max should be banned for his stupid posts.

[Max Power]

Max should be banned for his stupid posts.

What, that boxers improve with each passing generation in general?

The fact you think that's a stupid position to take leaves me speechless.

Can you name any other sport where it's athletes from the black and white days would be competitive today?

[Andre]

They built a fight system into Mike, turned all his weakness into strengths. An evasive head hunter from below.Taught him how to break down distance fighters into stages then pass under the hilt of the sword,finish off using a lower center of gravity with massive leg work built around flexibility and mobility. They even got his old fears reversed inside him into him being the feared one,his anger focused into a pinpoint of commitment instead of being committed.
Some men were beat before they even entered the ring,they were in their through their own ego, which was becoming shattered already just on standing opposite someone who chose no gloss, dark persona, black garb, crazy and actually wanted to kill you with his past.

He had great trainers who were visionaries around him then; TBE.

[p4pking]

I think Tyson would have great chances vs Chris Arreola or Stiverne.

But

Tyson never once beat anybody as big +good as Arreola

Or as good+heavy as Stiverne

So to answer your question, I DO rank Tyson ahead of these guys, but whether he would win against them in fact is an open question.

One thing is for sure, Tyson was stretched to the limit by guys whom either of these guys would have banged straight out. So no, Tyson could not steam roll either of them.

I still rate Arreola just a notch below Stiverne now, they are rather evenly matched.

Considering Tyson vs these guys is a valid question because he WAS special.

No pre80's HW was special, the better ones won against bums and cruisers mainly! With little exception.

Pre80's HW's could barely even box as we would describe it today.

You have reminded me what a stupid poster you are. Even Arreleo's mum would slap you for saying such a stupid thing.

Yes well I often wonder what guys like Arreola or Stiverne fr that mattter, think about being compared to such ludicrous opponents as they have been subjected to. Guys that boxed 50 or more years earlier which were about 5 weight classes below them and often failed to score knockouts against even WORSE opponents over a full 15 or even 20 rounds!

Guys like Jimmy Young etc can lost multiple fights against guys who would ever even box today, Yet someone like Arreola loses against guys as strong as never existed before and suddenly he can't box?

Something is wrong with this picture.

Fortunately Mike Tyson knew exactly where it was at..

I'll dig up the quote from Mike soon...

There is a very easy way to judge a fighters competition. It's a no brainer method.

Everybody knows it..

"Every era, is by and large, better (stronger, faster (p4p) and more skilled) than the one preceded it. Because athletes and sportsmen get better and better from generation to generation."

THIS^^^ Is simply how it works, and is supported by every fact, every statistic one could viably concoct. And it certainly LOOKS that way to me.

Mike Tyson vs Chris Arreola = valid debate

For example..

Wladimir Klitschko vs Jess Willard = definitely does NOT!

I don't sleight you for thinking that athletes by and large improve over time, not at all. I feel boxing is a lot different than most sports in that it isn't overwhelmingly about athleticism though. Michael Grant might be one of the biggest strongest modern athletes who ever set foot in the ring. He would have killed Lennox Lewis in a 100m dash, vertical leap, was probably stronger and faster in just about every way. He got the shit kicked out of him because he didn't know how to fight half as well and didn't have nearly the intangibles. I don't think Arreola exactly thrives in these departments either, and in fact hes not even that physically impressive. It really seems as though you champion him strictly because he is current, which is odd. If you think he would have actually stood any kind of chance against Mike Tyson I don't put any stock in the way anything looks to you The guy was in big trouble against Travis Walker, he lost to a light heavyweight Tomas Adamek, but I suppose those guys would have been undisputed HW champions as well if they came before 1985? Do you still think Arreola would have beaten LArry Holmes?

[Max Power]

I don't sleight you for thinking that athletes by and large improve over time, not at all. I feel boxing is a lot different than most sports in that it isn't overwhelmingly about athleticism though. Michael Grant might be one of the biggest strongest modern athletes who ever set foot in the ring. He would have killed Lennox Lewis in a 100m dash, vertical leap, was probably stronger and faster in just about every way. He got the shit kicked out of him because he didn't know how to fight half as well and didn't have nearly the intangibles. I don't think Arreola exactly thrives in these departments either, and in fact hes not even that physically impressive. It really seems as though you champion him strictly because he is current, which is odd. If you think he would have actually stood any kind of chance against Mike Tyson I don't put any stock in the way anything looks to you The guy was in big trouble against Travis Walker, he lost to a light heavyweight Tomas Adamek, but I suppose those guys would have been undisputed HW champions as well if they came before 1985? Do you still think Arreola would have beaten LArry Holmes?

You wont put any stock in my opinion because I don't think Tyson could "run through" Arreola..

You do realise Tyson LOST occasionally and won by DECISION sometimes too right? We ARE talking about the same Tyson here? LEt's seperate myth from fact.

Mike Tyson was KNOCKED OUT by featherfist bum Buster Douglas!

Let's analyse Chris's losses...

Vitali Klitscko - WOW who DOESN'T lose to Vitali Klitschko! Arreola gave him his hardest fight since Lewis!
Tomasz Adamek- Excellent boxer with a solid chin. Just as good as Holyfield was really. And proven giant slayer!

Vitali fight was stopped late to save Chris punishment and Adamek was merely a decision loss, no canvas KO's.

And now Stiverne x2. Probably the hardest puncher in the division with a chin of cast iron, fast hands and sharp cunterpunching skills. Chris was winning the first until caught early with a hard shot but then fought through the rest of the fight bloodied and battered to survive. And in the 2nd was clearly winning until caught hard by a thunderous shot.

1 canvas KO now. Chris has an iron chin too, no chin can withstand that shit!

There is no question regarding the heart and the tenacity of this extremely dangerous boxer who nobody ever really runs through.

Also if you want to mention Travis Walker, then I would also mention James Quick Tillis whom was outboxing Mike right until the end until Mike saved himself. I think I'd rather be up against it with walker than with a bummy cruiser like Tillis!

So what about Mike now?

Look how Mikes performance drops against good+tall opponents (like Arreola)...

Mitch Green UD10
James Smith UD12
Tony Tucker UD12
Buster Douglas - Tyson gets KOed
LEnnox Lewis - Tyson gets KOed
KEvin McBride - Tyson gets KOed

Of the above opponents, Arreola would lay waste to all except Lennox Lewis!

Sorry but "mythical" Mike Tyson stops Arreola.

"ACTUAL" Mike Tyson is in for a tough fight vs him. You can claim Arreola failed everytime he stepped up. Maybe so. But then again, Mike failed against much lesser opponents than Arreola himself.

Remember I DO rate Tyson higher and tip him to win here, but thinking Tyson can run through an opponent of this calibre is ridiculous, considering he never actually DID!

[p4pking]

Arreola doesn't jab and tie up, use his legs, he'd just trade punches and get clubbed out of there by a prime Tyson, you're dumb. Tony Tucker would have outboxed the Elephant seal as well.