Mike Tyson is TBE

[Master]

I think Tyson would have great chances vs Chris Arreola or Stiverne.

But

Tyson never once beat anybody as big +good as Arreola

Or as good+heavy as Stiverne

So to answer your question, I DO rank Tyson ahead of these guys, but whether he would win against them in fact is an open question.

One thing is for sure, Tyson was stretched to the limit by guys whom either of these guys would have banged straight out. So no, Tyson could not steam roll either of them.

I still rate Arreola just a notch below Stiverne now, they are rather evenly matched.

Considering Tyson vs these guys is a valid question because he WAS special.

No pre80's HW was special, the better ones won against bums and cruisers mainly! With little exception.

Pre80's HW's could barely even box as we would describe it today.

You have reminded me what a stupid poster you are. Even Arreleo's mum would slap you for saying such a stupid thing.

[Max Power]

I think Tyson would have great chances vs Chris Arreola or Stiverne.

But

Tyson never once beat anybody as big +good as Arreola

Or as good+heavy as Stiverne

So to answer your question, I DO rank Tyson ahead of these guys, but whether he would win against them in fact is an open question.

One thing is for sure, Tyson was stretched to the limit by guys whom either of these guys would have banged straight out. So no, Tyson could not steam roll either of them.

I still rate Arreola just a notch below Stiverne now, they are rather evenly matched.

Considering Tyson vs these guys is a valid question because he WAS special.

No pre80's HW was special, the better ones won against bums and cruisers mainly! With little exception.

Pre80's HW's could barely even box as we would describe it today.

You have reminded me what a stupid poster you are. Even Arreleo's mum would slap you for saying such a stupid thing.

Yes well I often wonder what guys like Arreola or Stiverne fr that mattter, think about being compared to such ludicrous opponents as they have been subjected to. Guys that boxed 50 or more years earlier which were about 5 weight classes below them and often failed to score knockouts against even WORSE opponents over a full 15 or even 20 rounds!

Guys like Jimmy Young etc can lost multiple fights against guys who would ever even box today, Yet someone like Arreola loses against guys as strong as never existed before and suddenly he can't box?

Something is wrong with this picture.

Fortunately Mike Tyson knew exactly where it was at..

I'll dig up the quote from Mike soon...

There is a very easy way to judge a fighters competition. It's a no brainer method.

Everybody knows it..

"Every era, is by and large, better (stronger, faster (p4p) and more skilled) than the one preceded it. Because athletes and sportsmen get better and better from generation to generation."

THIS^^^ Is simply how it works, and is supported by every fact, every statistic one could viably concoct. And it certainly LOOKS that way to me.

Mike Tyson vs Chris Arreola = valid debate

For example..

Wladimir Klitschko vs Jess Willard = definitely does NOT!

[Master]

Max should be banned for his stupid posts.

[Max Power]

Max should be banned for his stupid posts.

What, that boxers improve with each passing generation in general?

The fact you think that's a stupid position to take leaves me speechless.

Can you name any other sport where it's athletes from the black and white days would be competitive today?

[Andre]

They built a fight system into Mike, turned all his weakness into strengths. An evasive head hunter from below.Taught him how to break down distance fighters into stages then pass under the hilt of the sword,finish off using a lower center of gravity with massive leg work built around flexibility and mobility. They even got his old fears reversed inside him into him being the feared one,his anger focused into a pinpoint of commitment instead of being committed.
Some men were beat before they even entered the ring,they were in their through their own ego, which was becoming shattered already just on standing opposite someone who chose no gloss, dark persona, black garb, crazy and actually wanted to kill you with his past.

He had great trainers who were visionaries around him then; TBE.

[Max Power]

There's never been such a particular combination of qualities since Tyson to be sure.

Sacking Rooney and succumbing to a bad lifestyle was a fatal error. A fully focussed and dedicated Tyson could very well have been the dominant champ of the 90's as well.

We'll never know though.

[p4pking]

I think Tyson would have great chances vs Chris Arreola or Stiverne.

But

Tyson never once beat anybody as big +good as Arreola

Or as good+heavy as Stiverne

So to answer your question, I DO rank Tyson ahead of these guys, but whether he would win against them in fact is an open question.

One thing is for sure, Tyson was stretched to the limit by guys whom either of these guys would have banged straight out. So no, Tyson could not steam roll either of them.

I still rate Arreola just a notch below Stiverne now, they are rather evenly matched.

Considering Tyson vs these guys is a valid question because he WAS special.

No pre80's HW was special, the better ones won against bums and cruisers mainly! With little exception.

Pre80's HW's could barely even box as we would describe it today.

You have reminded me what a stupid poster you are. Even Arreleo's mum would slap you for saying such a stupid thing.

Yes well I often wonder what guys like Arreola or Stiverne fr that mattter, think about being compared to such ludicrous opponents as they have been subjected to. Guys that boxed 50 or more years earlier which were about 5 weight classes below them and often failed to score knockouts against even WORSE opponents over a full 15 or even 20 rounds!

Guys like Jimmy Young etc can lost multiple fights against guys who would ever even box today, Yet someone like Arreola loses against guys as strong as never existed before and suddenly he can't box?

Something is wrong with this picture.

Fortunately Mike Tyson knew exactly where it was at..

I'll dig up the quote from Mike soon...

There is a very easy way to judge a fighters competition. It's a no brainer method.

Everybody knows it..

"Every era, is by and large, better (stronger, faster (p4p) and more skilled) than the one preceded it. Because athletes and sportsmen get better and better from generation to generation."

THIS^^^ Is simply how it works, and is supported by every fact, every statistic one could viably concoct. And it certainly LOOKS that way to me.

Mike Tyson vs Chris Arreola = valid debate

For example..

Wladimir Klitschko vs Jess Willard = definitely does NOT!

I don't sleight you for thinking that athletes by and large improve over time, not at all. I feel boxing is a lot different than most sports in that it isn't overwhelmingly about athleticism though. Michael Grant might be one of the biggest strongest modern athletes who ever set foot in the ring. He would have killed Lennox Lewis in a 100m dash, vertical leap, was probably stronger and faster in just about every way. He got the shit kicked out of him because he didn't know how to fight half as well and didn't have nearly the intangibles. I don't think Arreola exactly thrives in these departments either, and in fact hes not even that physically impressive. It really seems as though you champion him strictly because he is current, which is odd. If you think he would have actually stood any kind of chance against Mike Tyson I don't put any stock in the way anything looks to you The guy was in big trouble against Travis Walker, he lost to a light heavyweight Tomas Adamek, but I suppose those guys would have been undisputed HW champions as well if they came before 1985? Do you still think Arreola would have beaten LArry Holmes?

[Max Power]

I don't sleight you for thinking that athletes by and large improve over time, not at all. I feel boxing is a lot different than most sports in that it isn't overwhelmingly about athleticism though. Michael Grant might be one of the biggest strongest modern athletes who ever set foot in the ring. He would have killed Lennox Lewis in a 100m dash, vertical leap, was probably stronger and faster in just about every way. He got the shit kicked out of him because he didn't know how to fight half as well and didn't have nearly the intangibles. I don't think Arreola exactly thrives in these departments either, and in fact hes not even that physically impressive. It really seems as though you champion him strictly because he is current, which is odd. If you think he would have actually stood any kind of chance against Mike Tyson I don't put any stock in the way anything looks to you The guy was in big trouble against Travis Walker, he lost to a light heavyweight Tomas Adamek, but I suppose those guys would have been undisputed HW champions as well if they came before 1985? Do you still think Arreola would have beaten LArry Holmes?

You wont put any stock in my opinion because I don't think Tyson could "run through" Arreola..

You do realise Tyson LOST occasionally and won by DECISION sometimes too right? We ARE talking about the same Tyson here? LEt's seperate myth from fact.

Mike Tyson was KNOCKED OUT by featherfist bum Buster Douglas!

Let's analyse Chris's losses...

Vitali Klitscko - WOW who DOESN'T lose to Vitali Klitschko! Arreola gave him his hardest fight since Lewis!
Tomasz Adamek- Excellent boxer with a solid chin. Just as good as Holyfield was really. And proven giant slayer!

Vitali fight was stopped late to save Chris punishment and Adamek was merely a decision loss, no canvas KO's.

And now Stiverne x2. Probably the hardest puncher in the division with a chin of cast iron, fast hands and sharp cunterpunching skills. Chris was winning the first until caught early with a hard shot but then fought through the rest of the fight bloodied and battered to survive. And in the 2nd was clearly winning until caught hard by a thunderous shot.

1 canvas KO now. Chris has an iron chin too, no chin can withstand that shit!

There is no question regarding the heart and the tenacity of this extremely dangerous boxer who nobody ever really runs through.

Also if you want to mention Travis Walker, then I would also mention James Quick Tillis whom was outboxing Mike right until the end until Mike saved himself. I think I'd rather be up against it with walker than with a bummy cruiser like Tillis!

So what about Mike now?

Look how Mikes performance drops against good+tall opponents (like Arreola)...

Mitch Green UD10
James Smith UD12
Tony Tucker UD12
Buster Douglas - Tyson gets KOed
LEnnox Lewis - Tyson gets KOed
KEvin McBride - Tyson gets KOed

Of the above opponents, Arreola would lay waste to all except Lennox Lewis!

Sorry but "mythical" Mike Tyson stops Arreola.

"ACTUAL" Mike Tyson is in for a tough fight vs him. You can claim Arreola failed everytime he stepped up. Maybe so. But then again, Mike failed against much lesser opponents than Arreola himself.

Remember I DO rate Tyson higher and tip him to win here, but thinking Tyson can run through an opponent of this calibre is ridiculous, considering he never actually DID!

[p4pking]

Arreola doesn't jab and tie up, use his legs, he'd just trade punches and get clubbed out of there by a prime Tyson, you're dumb. Tony Tucker would have outboxed the Elephant seal as well.

[Max Power]

Arreola doesn't jab and tie up, use his legs, he'd just trade punches and get clubbed out of there by a prime Tyson, you're dumb. Tony Tucker would have outboxed the Elephant seal as well.

That's just a ridiculous opinion.

Arreola is a well skilled boxer, just as good as most. And I'm not taking anything away from Tucker because he was good fighter too. The main difference between Arreola and most are physical advantages (height, power, weight and a very solid chin+stamina) and relentless aggression/pressure and heart. Imagine Tyson's victims vs Arreola? He'd knock there block off as well!

Now Tyson is one of my favourite all time boxers and I rate him highly, but there is GREAT questions on how he would tolerate the adversity of the current HW's, and 00's HW's and even some of the bigger+stronger ones which he didn't fight.

My opinion IS that he'd beat most of them, remember that. But he isn't destroying any opponent like Arreola who is skilled+big.

I noticed you making quips about Arrreola's fat weight. Do we really have to go there again?

In short it's the HW division, there are advantaged and disadvantages of being both lean and chubby at HW, as you said it is NOT athletics!

And almost too stupid to mention but I guess I'll have to.. Being chubby does not equate to less muscles.

Arreola is fast, Arreola has stamina, that is what's important. So who gives a F if he isn't ripped!

Now Tyson might be TBE for all I know but let's not try and sell that he destroys the upper echelons of boxing ina few rounds here ey!

[mmafightclub6]

He's pretty scary during his prime. Not TBE though. I only wish fighters fights the best opposition so it's easier to know why the TBE really is.

[p4pking]

Arreola doesn't jab and tie up, use his legs, he'd just trade punches and get clubbed out of there by a prime Tyson, you're dumb. Tony Tucker would have outboxed the Elephant seal as well.

That's just a ridiculous opinion.

Arreola is a well skilled boxer, just as good as most. And I'm not taking anything away from Tucker because he was good fighter too. The main difference between Arreola and most are physical advantages (height, power, weight and a very solid chin+stamina) and relentless aggression/pressure and heart. Imagine Tyson's victims vs Arreola? He'd knock there block off as well!

Now Tyson is one of my favourite all time boxers and I rate him highly, but there is GREAT questions on how he would tolerate the adversity of the current HW's, and 00's HW's and even some of the bigger+stronger ones which he didn't fight.

My opinion IS that he'd beat most of them, remember that. But he isn't destroying any opponent like Arreola who is skilled+big.

I noticed you making quips about Arrreola's fat weight. Do we really have to go there again?

In short it's the HW division, there are advantaged and disadvantages of being both lean and chubby at HW, as you said it is NOT athletics!

And almost too stupid to mention but I guess I'll have to.. Being chubby does not equate to less muscles.

Arreola is fast, Arreola has stamina, that is what's important. So who gives a F if he isn't ripped!

Now Tyson might be TBE for all I know but let's not try and sell that he destroys the upper echelons of boxing ina few rounds here ey!

You are in the upper echelons of annoying. Do you think Adamek was a better HW than Tony Tucker? Was Travis Walker more dangerous than Razor Ruddock in your opinion? It's very possible a few of Tysons victims would have beaten Arreola. You think the guy is a really hard fight for anyone who ever lived, most people don't rate him as a great fighter at all, because he wasn't quite. Not really sure what else there is to say.