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Thread: What Era had the Most Talented HeavyWeights?

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    Default Re: What Era had the Most Talented HeavyWeights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Max Power View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SlimTrae View Post
    Braddock, Corbett, Marciano and i believe Dempsey all weighed under 200lbs along with Tunney.

    Does that eliminate them from defeating today's fighters?
    Once again Rjj won the HW title & hadnt knocked out a single fighter in almost a decade. Omar Sheika.
    So it is probable that Tunney could have defeated a few top names from the 60s like Floyd Patterson.
    70s Bonevena, Chuavelo, 80s if marvis Frazier got a title shot, Tunney wouldn't have?
    And if Tunney's defense can evade a clean shot from Michael moorer, he might have outboxed him as well as the guy Moorer got the title back from: Axel Schultz.

    It's all pure speculation, but what is factual?
    How many here claim that the Klitshko bros are in a weak era, then turn around and defend it.
    Oh Tunney couldnt beat guys in this weak era...
    @Master seemed to agree with your analysis here but let me bring you the news my friend...

    - These ancient boxers mentioned ARE largely excluded from fighting HW boxers today as they were because they don't make the limit. They have absolutely NOTHING in common with any HW today, other than the fact that at one stage in history, they were once CALLED Heavyweights. The definition of what it means to be a HW has changed several times since then. Today they would be regarded as "light HW's", not even CW's!

    They are EXACTLY comparable with the likes of Sergei Kovalev when considering cross eras. And of course Sergei is a better boxer and better puncher than any of the ancient fighters you mentioned.

    - RJJ did not knock out Ruiz for the HW title at all! Moreover, none of the fighters you mentioned are anywhere NEAR comparable in quality to RJJ either!

    - You make a statement regarding Tunney being competitive in the modern era and THEN go on to list just not so ancient boxers as potential opponents anyway. However analysing that list, I still don't think Tunney has any real chance of beating them. Not even Floyd Patterson! The best he could hope for is to survive.

    - Michael Moorer would have banged Tunney oout with a single punch and is skillwise far removed from Tunney. Axel Schultz? LOL The guy who beat 260lb Foreman? Your crazy! LOL

    - The Klitschko era is possibly the strongest era ever in HW boxing. Evidence wise it is the strongest. There's no real debate about that, just US propaganda to the contrary but most people know that any ancient fighter like Tunney or Dempsey would never step foot in a ring with Klitschko or any of their opponents and were they to, they'd be immediately rendered unconscious.

    Your post was not worth a single drop of piss in the dessert!

    Something positive about Tunney?

    He beat what was then the reigning champion of the world. That's it!

    He won it against a crude light HW slugger with no appreciable skills, whom achieved his own success via padding his record and avoiding all dangerous opponents. He never faced a black fighter, and he never faced a decent abilitied 200+ HW boxer. They were all bums!

    Tunney himself, ALSO ducked coloured fighters.

    Imagine if that occurred today?

    Tunney has his place in history. The moment you try to compare him to more recent times, it's a joke.

    Sergie Kovalev and Roy Jones Jr. would have been the HW champions of the world for as long as they liked and been so dominant nobody would even want to be a boxer with them around. That is a fact!
    I really don't understand your post.

    Whether the fighter mentioned is from 1900's Tunney
    or
    1970's Forman

    or 1990's Tua vs a Adamak...

    you do realize this is all mythical discussions right?
    The thread is which era had the most talented HW's not, which one of us is Miss Cleo possessing knowledge of fights that will never happen. Its called speculation, take a chill pill bro! whew!

    Yet you continuously plow through these posts as if you really know who woulda coulda won.

    Serious, do I claim anyone in any mythical matchup would win?

    No, I usually say IMO, or it appears.
    But keep on thinking that yesteryear's fighters would have been blown out, then go on a current mythical match up and you might be the number one person stating someone from the 1990's would have beaten someone from 2014.
    A fighter from the past...beating a fighter from the present...

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    Default Re: What Era had the Most Talented HeavyWeights?

    There is a big difference when you are trying to coompare THIS..

    http://www.josportsinc.com/item_images/1328371622.jpg

    http://www.rankopedia.com/CandidatePix/113395.gif

    To this...

    http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2011/0328...ones01_576.jpg

    And especially to this!...

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/166000...0_lewsi300.jpg

    I'm sorry, but I don't need a crystal ball to predict that outcome.

    Anyway, sure the closer eras are, the more it's blurred.

    But 100 years is a significant time.

    There is a fool proof way to know what the best eras are.

    It's the current and the most recent ones (90's+ imo).

    Because boxers getter better and stronger from generation to generation in general. Journeymen todat cheive their records by beating better and stronger bums than previously. Contenders today bet better and stronger journeymen. Champs today beat better and stronger contenders.

    Past eras as far back as your referring to were RIDDLED with bums. These days the champs are disallowed to fight bums, only at the beginning of their careers before they become champs.

    In Tunney's era and around that time, bum fights were sometimes considered world championships!
    "Enough with the games mate! Your messing with the Grand Master!"

    Lennox Lewis

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    Default Re: What Era had the Most Talented HeavyWeights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Max Power View Post
    There is a big difference when you are trying to coompare THIS..

    http://www.josportsinc.com/item_images/1328371622.jpg

    http://www.rankopedia.com/CandidatePix/113395.gif

    To this...

    http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2011/0328...ones01_576.jpg

    And especially to this!...

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/166000...0_lewsi300.jpg

    I'm sorry, but I don't need a crystal ball to predict that outcome.

    Anyway, sure the closer eras are, the more it's blurred.

    But 100 years is a significant time.

    There is a fool proof way to know what the best eras are.

    It's the current and the most recent ones (90's+ imo).

    Because boxers getter better and stronger from generation to generation in general. Journeymen todat cheive their records by beating better and stronger bums than previously. Contenders today bet better and stronger journeymen. Champs today beat better and stronger contenders.

    Past eras as far back as your referring to were RIDDLED with bums. These days the champs are disallowed to fight bums, only at the beginning of their careers before they become champs.

    In Tunney's era and around that time, bum fights were sometimes considered world championships!
    And so you feel then that the Klitchskos have fought no bums?

    So then I could take this to mean that all of the fighters who the Klitchkos fought were way better than anyone from the 1980s and back.

    And Wladimir and Vitali would beat the mouthpieces off every HW 1980 and previous? Because they are bigger and taller? Remember now, the younger brother had to learn a system from E. Steward and before that he was getting dropped left and right. Without Emanuel Steward his height didn't get him very far. & Steward is (old) school.

    Also remember back then they didn't wear 16oz gloves. Those guys were some tough hombres.

    In theory I agree as time moves on, every sport produces a generation slightly better, but that is conjecture and seemingly flawed one a case by case basis.

    Just follow me here- Today in football the average player is heavier, taller and stronger Agree?
    Same with basketball.

    Yet this is a fact if we choose to try me: Today guys who are more muscular have way friggin more injuries and are sidelined. Back in the day athletes didn't have trainers and conditioners who burn all that fat away, leaving muscle to rupture, tear.

    Yesteryear those athletes had a special anger that starvation, depression brought about..it is an inner strength that you or I can't measure. They didn't do like Vitali did against Chris Byrd and quit...over a shoulder injury.


    So back to boxing...a man like Jack Johnson may not be as big as today's HW, but he took shots with gloves that would be illegal today.

    And I agree you don't need a crystal ball to predict the outcome...because it cant predicted. Or speculated, there we part ways. This conversation is purely subjective, be it 50 year difference 100 or last year. Only fighters who are upright and still breathing can we make predictions that come to fruition.
    Everything else is purely speculative.
    Nevertheless I respect a fight fan who sticks to their guns and you come out guns a blazing!
    Might be shooting blanks though...

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    Default Re: What Era had the Most Talented HeavyWeights?

    Okay, I clicked on your links.

    They're photos.

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    Default Re: What Era had the Most Talented HeavyWeights?

    Quote Originally Posted by SlimTrae View Post
    And so you feel then that the Klitchskos have fought no bums?

    So then I could take this to mean that all of the fighters who the Klitchkos fought were way better than anyone from the 1980s and back.

    And Wladimir and Vitali would beat the mouthpieces off every HW 1980 and previous? Because they are bigger and taller? Remember now, the younger brother had to learn a system from E. Steward and before that he was getting dropped left and right. Without Emanuel Steward his height didn't get him very far. & Steward is (old) school.

    Also remember back then they didn't wear 16oz gloves. Those guys were some tough hombres.

    In theory I agree as time moves on, every sport produces a generation slightly better, but that is conjecture and seemingly flawed one a case by case basis.

    Just follow me here- Today in football the average player is heavier, taller and stronger Agree?
    Same with basketball.

    Yet this is a fact if we choose to try me: Today guys who are more muscular have way friggin more injuries and are sidelined. Back in the day athletes didn't have trainers and conditioners who burn all that fat away, leaving muscle to rupture, tear.

    Yesteryear those athletes had a special anger that starvation, depression brought about..it is an inner strength that you or I can't measure. They didn't do like Vitali did against Chris Byrd and quit...over a shoulder injury.


    So back to boxing...a man like Jack Johnson may not be as big as today's HW, but he took shots with gloves that would be illegal today.

    And I agree you don't need a crystal ball to predict the outcome...because it cant predicted. Or speculated, there we part ways. This conversation is purely subjective, be it 50 year difference 100 or last year. Only fighters who are upright and still breathing can we make predictions that come to fruition.
    Everything else is purely speculative.
    Nevertheless I respect a fight fan who sticks to their guns and you come out guns a blazing!
    Might be shooting blanks though...
    OF course the Klitschko's have fought bums, as does every boxer. The thing with Klitschko is that no other boxer has fought more quality opponents than Wladimir Klitschko at real HW! In fact even considering against previous eras (including sub200 opponents, Wladimir fares among the best in this case.)

    I know many ppl CALL them bums, but they are really past present and future champs, unbeaten contenders, ultra slick athletes or giant towering boxers, all with great records and very hard punches.

    Your quip regarding Wladimir getting knocked around left right and centre prior to the system Steward taught him is totally false! He had only been down a few times in his career and lost 2ce by stoppage. Only 1 of those times being relevant for Stewards system to HOLD when in trouble. Previous to that he knocked out nearly every single opponent except the one he gassed against which he beat the shit out of anyway!

    Of course Wladimir could dominate all the 80's boxers, knock practically every one of them out and win nearly every round. LOOK at him! Mike Tyson is the only serious question mark here. And these days that's a less than even chance for old Mike.

    Your comment regarding injuries today is very relevant and I agree totally. If you notice I have always championed the idea that fat is not detrimental to HW boxing which is why there ARE successful fat boxers in the first place. I fail to see how more injuries in any way worsens boxers chances though, if it was bad they wouldn't do it! Fighting every month like past times was FAR more deleterious to health and ability than bloody camps are!

    Then you make comment analogous that past boxers were "mentally tougher", absolute rot that every old codger concocts. Boxers are boxers, they ALL have that heart and warrior spirit else they wouldn't be pro boxers. Boxers today are SMARTER if that's what you mean! Sure you can mention VK quitting vs Byrd but you THEN have to look on his performance with half his face off vs Lennox too!

    Please indicate to me boxers like Byrd etc who, undersized fight high quality giant boxers regularly? Only Joe Louis ever beat mention worthy giants in the past!

    Please indicate to me a boxer with the heart of Lamon Brewster for example who came forward in 2 fights to receive some of the most brutal thrashings (even in the fight he won) against WKlitshcko, ever dished out in a HW boxing match all time?

    Besides, no amount of heart could allow most of those boxers to survive. It would simply get them knocked out even quicker.

    It's evident today in how much boxing has changed at HW.

    Past fights were a back and forth slugfest in which bravado was key.

    Today we see tentative and carefully executed gameplay instead. There's a reason for that. In the past the punches were bareable. Even George Foreman took multiple shots aand KD's to put away over matched opponents. Now days everybody knows it only takes a single punch for a cold canvas KO.

    To see what I mean watch the cautious styles here...

    "Enough with the games mate! Your messing with the Grand Master!"

    Lennox Lewis

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    Default Re: What Era had the Most Talented HeavyWeights?

    Bottom line: the Klitschko's fought ALL comers, including black fighters. Take black fighters out of the mix and Wlad has ONE freak loss to Corrie Sanders (RIP) and Vitali is undefeated.
    David Lemieux = Future MW Champ and P4P King

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    Default Re: What Era had the Most Talented HeavyWeights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Beanflicker View Post
    Bottom line: the Klitschko's fought ALL comers, including black fighters. Take black fighters out of the mix and Wlad has ONE freak loss to Corrie Sanders (RIP) and Vitali is undefeated.
    Yes, in fact you can take this further...

    Wladimir Klitschko has fought in more countries than any HW except Ali.

    Wladimir Klitschko has fought not only black boxers, but boxers of more nationalities than any other boxer.

    He has faced the most diverse styles, shapes and sizes of any boxer.

    And most importantly, he took on all good Southpaws as well which are the more difficult and dangerous opponents for orthodox fighters.

    MAny champion boxers like Mike Tyson and Lennox Lewis ducked all southpaws!
    "Enough with the games mate! Your messing with the Grand Master!"

    Lennox Lewis

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    Default Re: What Era had the Most Talented HeavyWeights?

    Again I say this and please digest - Other than size the vast majority modern heavyweight fighters have poor skill and technique. This is why Wlad is so dominate and even then he struggles to finish his opponents because of his suspect chin.

    Holmes and Tyson wipe out Wlad.
    Do not let success go to your head and do not let failure get to your heart.

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    Default Re: What Era had the Most Talented HeavyWeights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Max Power View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SlimTrae View Post

    :
    OF course the Klitschko's have fought bums, as does every boxer. The thing with Klitschko is that no other boxer has fought more quality opponents than Wladimir Klitschko at real HW! In fact even considering against previous eras (including sub200 opponents, Wladimir fares among the best in this case.)
    Boxers fighting more quality opponents than the Klitschko is your opinion, if not hold a poll here and I will bow to the winner- Most here believe they are fighting in the weakest era- so if most think this way.. then it becomes a consensus which beats out one's personal opinion.

    I know many ppl CALL them bums, but they are really past present and future champs, unbeaten contenders, ultra slick athletes or giant towering boxers, all with great records and very hard punches.

    Your quip regarding Wladimir getting knocked around left right and centre prior to the system Steward taught him is totally false! He had only been down a few times in his career and lost 2ce by stoppage. Only 1 of those times being relevant for Stewards system to HOLD when in trouble. Previous to that he knocked out nearly every single opponent except the one he gassed against which he beat the shit out of anyway!
    So if my claim that Steward brought his game up, tightened his defense is false- then who knocked Klitcho down...after Manny took over? Was he knocked down & knocked out after Steward came in more than before he took over?

    Of course Wladimir could dominate all the 80's boxers, knock practically every one of them out and win nearly every round. LOOK at him! Mike Tyson is the only serious question mark here. And these days that's a less than even chance for old Mike. And this is what you called facts? Sounds like an opinion, once again hold a poll here and I will acknowledge the consensus, not an individual's opinion.

    Your comment regarding injuries today is very relevant and I agree totally. If you notice I have always championed the idea that fat is not detrimental to HW boxing which is why there ARE successful fat boxers in the first place. I fail to see how more injuries in any way worsens boxers chances though, if it was bad they wouldn't do it!

    injuries prevent athletes from competing, this is why yesteryears fighters could wage 100 fights minimum- most didnt get brain damage like Ali. Be it Archie Moore, Suicidal Hank to Walker Smith to JCC who fought over 100 times also and when he came to the Boxing Hall of fame in 2012, his speech seemed fine. Now I dont speak spanish, but I know slurred speech, so theese guys bare me witness.

    Fighting every month like past times was FAR more deleterious to health and ability than bloody camps are! I neither agrree nor disagree, but wouldnt mine you naming some fighter to prove this point like I just named to prove mines, cool?


    Then you make comment analogous that past boxers were "mentally tougher", absolute rot that every old codger concocts. Absolute rot? remember those words when you get old and start talking to the 2020 generation about how great Witali and Wlad was. Reap what you so. Guys today like Victor Ortiz, quit. Older Klitschko quit against Byrd- those who fight through pain today are more rare than yesteryear. Tough guys are in all era, just not as deep as the past- be it the punk kid in the streets who uses a gun over fists or the athletes who get sidelined by an injury that in the past, most had to play-fight through. You probably have no clue of this because you haven't seen enough eras go by to make the legit claim. I dont call your opininions rot like you call mines...but maybe that is what your era does

    Boxers are boxers, they ALL have that heart and warrior spirit else they wouldn't be pro boxers. Boxers today are SMARTER if that's what you mean! Sure you can mention VK quitting vs Byrd but you THEN have to look on his performance with half his face off vs Lennox too!

    We will have to agree to disagree. Boxers today IMO fight more for the purse, the PPV, the fame. the amount of fights not made today is way more than in the past. Ali haggled money with whom? Marciano, Larry Holmes? Today we dont see the best fight the best because we are in an era of PPV, fighters becoming their own promoters. 8 to 11 divisions up to how many today? How many belts exist? So today one can be a champ simply with a made up alphabet belt and have no need to unify. Fighters today win one belt, then move up without unification. Few do that like today's JMM. He damn near unified the whole LW division chasing Pac up to WW, but that doesnt represent the era, IMI it represents JMM as an individual- tough as nails! And as far as VK getting busted up against Lewis: agreed. But again...IMO, you are using one individual fight to speak for the whole era?

    Please indicate to me boxers like Byrd etc who, undersized fight high quality giant boxers regularly? Only Joe Louis ever beat mention worthy giants in the past!
    Okay check this out:
    Billy Conn LHW moving up to fight HW Joe Louis and it wasnt called catchweight fights like today's champs do like Floyd & Pacquiao catchweighting fights all the way to the Hall of fame.

    Hank Armstrong held the FW, LW & WW title at the same time, so now let me give it back to you; name a fighter today that fights FW's & WW's? Today when a FW loses, so many of us are quick to point out...oh well he was fighting outside his best weight. But back in the day, a loss was a loss. Not a loss requires a caveat: He was too small. He wasnt a real WW, he was a blown up WW.


    Please indicate to me a boxer with the heart of Lamon Brewster for example who came forward in 2 fights to receive some of the most brutal thrashings (even in the fight he won) against WKlitshcko, ever dished out in a HW boxing match all time?

    You're kidding right? There is a reason when fighters who go through fire are called [Throw back fighters], Jack Dempsy was considered too small to fight 6'6 Jess Willard odds I quote:

    "In The 12 Greatest Rounds of Boxing pages 17-18, “The Fight Doctor”, Ferdie Pacheco, writes, “The damage was indeed severe. In the first round Willard’s zygomatic arch (cheekbone) was shattered in 12 places. In the same round the champion sustained a broken nose, a jaw that was broken in 13 places, and 8 avulsed teeth. In addition to facial fractures he suffered 2 fractured ribs.”

    Likewise Dan Daniel wrote, Aug 1979 Ring Magazine, "Blood was flowing from Willard's mouth. Two front teeth had found their way to the canvas. His right eye had begun to close and the right side of his face was swelling abnormally. He looked as if he had been struck with a blackjack."




    Besides, no amount of heart could allow most of those boxers to survive. It would simply get them knocked out even quicker. Once again I have no problem with this stated as an opinion, but if it is fact, shouldn't there be more here or abound who support this view? IMO this is exactly: an opinion.

    It's evident today in how much boxing has changed at HW. Sure it is, but IMO I hold on to my first thread: I think the 1990's produced the best HW's plural. Now does that mean they all could beat VK & WK? I dunno. But two guys dont make this era the best. Its two ...2..

    Past fights were a back and forth slugfest in which bravado was key. True for the majority of fighters but IMO not all Example: Benny Leonard was once considered to be such a consumate boxer that he was said to have won a round without throwing a punch.
    Ray Robinson's speed and finesse earned him the nickname 'sugar'.
    Overall I agree that yesteryear's fighters were like the same for any sport. They all develop over time. But that doesnt mean the previous eras should be discounted as neanderthalls.
    I implore you: Watch Niccolino Loche who boxed from 1964-1976, he shoulder rolled, dipped feinted did shit that Pernell & Floyd does in terms of defense- pure finesse, showboating & shoeshining. Watch some old Roberto Duran, he was a bull, but also a consumate boxer at LW.

    Today we see tentative and carefully executed gameplay instead. There's a reason for that. In the past the punches were bareable. Even George Foreman took multiple shots aand KD's to put away over matched opponents. Now days everybody knows it only takes a single punch for a cold canvas KO.
    I agree.

    To see what I mean watch the cautious styles here...
    I see and ready everything you mean. But in the end it comes across as opinion which you seem to think are facts. Hold a poll here on some of your said facts and I will acknowledge it, until then its been cool..overall to debate you & others on which era had the best HW's...BTW I still say 90's
    Last edited by SlimTrae; 12-16-2014 at 05:30 AM.

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    Default Re: What Era had the Most Talented HeavyWeights?

    Slim there's a real lot there to digest in 1 post but basically, holding a poll does nothing.

    If 99 ppl out of 100 call red blue, even though it's clearly red on a detector, then that means that 99 ppl are colour blind, not that 99 ppl are right! Politics doesn't determine truth, facts determine proof.

    Most of my opinions are supported by facts. Where not I state usually it's my opinion.

    For instance, I KNOW WK has faced the most quality real HW's of any boxer. Because he has faced the most 200+ opponents for a start.

    Of these, he has faced more non-bummy opponents (those that have not lost a significant ratio of their fights, they have BETTER records than the opponents of any other boxer in total.

    And these opponents achieved their records by competing with heavier and higher quality boxers in turn. In other words the WORTHINESS of the wins of these opponents (the opponents opponents of Wladimir) was better as well!

    Your posts started off strong but got progressively worse as they continued.

    One of the last decent laughs was about modern guys fighting for the purse these days and without heart. LEt me tell you that nobody becomes a professional boxer by necessity today, they really WANT to be there! This is a BLOOD SPORT! A pro boxer is an elite fighting machine, nothing less and they are there to WIN!

    Past times boxers were expected to be "entertainers" as well, winning was LESS important to them (IN MY OPINION, which makes intuitive sense). Because it was THOSE guys fighting more for the purse than any other because they needed the cash to bloody EAT!

    When you mentioned bum Billy Conn vs Joe Louis as some sort of proof, it became unreadable.
    "Enough with the games mate! Your messing with the Grand Master!"

    Lennox Lewis

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    Default Re: What Era had the Most Talented HeavyWeights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Max Power View Post
    Slim there's a real lot there to digest in 1 post but basically, holding a poll does nothing.

    If 99 ppl out of 100 call red blue, even though it's clearly red on a detector, then that means that 99 ppl are colour blind, not that 99 ppl are right! Politics doesn't determine truth, facts determine proof.

    We're not talking politics, we're talking what you and virtually you alone here call facts

    Most of my opinions are supported by facts. Where not I state usually it's my opinion.
    Haven't seen them as most here who respond to your posts {in particular} seem to state the same

    For instance, I KNOW WK has faced the most quality real HW's of any boxer. Because he has faced the most 200+ opponents for a start. Key sentence here is (I KNOW), once again your opinion

    Of these, he has faced more non-bummy opponents (those that have not lost a significant ratio of their fights, they have BETTER records than the opponents of any other boxer in total.
    Alot a fighters have great records, but that doenst mean they were quality opponents.

    And these opponents achieved their records by competing with heavier and higher quality boxers in turn. In other words the WORTHINESS of the wins of these opponents (the opponents opponents of Wladimir) was better as well!
    Because they were heavier? I will agree with the others who responded to this point about heavier makes better.
    Your posts started off strong but got progressively worse as they continued.
    When in doubt don't down just the post, down the person who posted...But I admit I feel all off your posts start of weak and get weaker, that is why I dont initiate posts with you, I respond to your posts.

    One of the last decent laughs was about modern guys fighting for the purse these days and without heart. LEt me tell you that nobody becomes a professional boxer by necessity today, they really WANT to be there! This is a BLOOD SPORT! A pro boxer is an elite fighting machine, nothing less and they are there to WIN!

    You should watch Morrade Hakkar vs Bhop and tell us if Hakkar had heart. I could name ten more, but it appears you only respect your own opinions

    Past times boxers were expected to be "entertainers" as well, winning was LESS important to them (IN MY OPINION, which makes intuitive sense). Because it was THOSE guys fighting more for the purse than any other because they needed the cash to bloody EAT!
    I Agree, somewhat..

    When you mentioned bum Billy Conn vs Joe Louis as some sort of proof, it became unreadable.
    I mentioned Billy Conn because you mentioned Joe Louis as one of the few to fight monsters, so I proved that Billy the bum...beat Joe so bad that Joe Louis son described the fight as a beating his pop took.

    Joe Louis himself said to Conn..when Conn said you could've let me win and I'd given you a rematch.
    To which Joe Louis responded, why? You had the belt for 13 rounds.
    So yes it is laughable that you give credit to Joe Louis a few posts before, then when I talk of a fighter who boxed him well until the KO...you down that fighter as a bum and said my post became undreadable, well no problem I like most here feel similar about your posts
    Last edited by SlimTrae; 12-16-2014 at 11:54 PM.

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