Max powerism 101:

[Max Power]

You have to be a troll. I'm convinced.

FACTS = Trolling now does it?

Well I guess I am guilty!

[ruthless rocco]

@Max Power, you know so much about heavyweight boxing, I can't believe people even try to convince you otherwise.

You're Saddo's greatest poster of all time. Thanks for being here!

[TitoFan]

Excellent post, and I'll break down the reasons why:

He is wrong period.

Wlad has been unbeaten in 10 years because the division is the worst it has ever been.
Damn right. Let's quit pussy-footing around this point and call a spade a spade. There's been slow periods in HW, but nothing like the absolute trash there is today.


The vast majority of challengers are so far below the standard 1990's that he has remained champion for so long.
Ditto. See above.


Wlad is a great heavyweight champion and a good role model
Someone who's just hating doesn't call the fighter "a great heavyweight champion". No one is trying to totally discredit Wlad. But again... let's be real here. I've said the same thing for years.


but he does not clinically knock out fighters until he is 100% they have no resistance.
PRE-FRIGGING-CISELY!!! Most telling fact of all. Wlad takes zero risks. ZERO. And before the certain "blah-blah-blah" about how boxers aren't supposed to take risks....... WRONG. If it was all about not taking any risks, they wouldn't step into the ring at all, would they.


He takes 10 rounds when it should be 5.


He has a vulnerable chin and that is why he fights the way he does with excessive holding.
Right once again. Which makes for boring, foul-filled fights.


Better science my ass.
Ok, now he's hating.

You offered nothing but agreeing with him.

I exposed the Wlad chin myth.

And exposed the 90's superiority myth too.

The Klitschko's would have dominated in the 90's too imo. Lennox Lewis would have been the most serious factor for them.

Yeah.... that's the funny thing about arguments, Max.
Someone says something you yourself have said countless times..... you agree.
Someone takes the opposite side..... you disagree.

Hope this helps.

BTW, exposing myths involves a bit more than to say..... "Uhh... I don't think so."

Hope this helps also.

I know you feel that Wlad has an iron chin and throws caution to the wind in order to provide us fans with memorable, exciting fights. I'm sorry most of us are so blind we just don't see it that way. Wlad fouling his way through fights to protect his fine china chin? Nah..... that's just a figment of our imagination.

This generation of HW's is comparable in quality to any other? If you say so... it must be true. I don't know how I could have possible snoozed through classics like Wlad-Sultan and Wlad-Povetkin..... not to mention the epics Wlad-Thompson I and II.

Austin? Piñata....er.... I mean..... Pianeta? Leapai?
Future HOF'ers all of them.

[walrus]

Sorry to get off topic but someone mentioned Butterbean. I used to enjoy watching him fight but I was young at the time and just a casual fan. I know he was labeled as a bumbeater but who was the best he ever faced.

Also, I can't wait for the day when we can seriously talk about Wilder. Really, one good opponent and we can start assessing where this guy is coming from or going.

But getting back to my original, who was the best that Butterbean beat. God he was funny to watch

[powerpuncher]

Do you really think that Bermane Stiverne and David Haye could not match Tyson and Holyfield?

HAhahaHAHAHahaHaHHAhah!!!!

How stupid are you!?

His sole criteria for choosing those four fighters was that none of them are American.
Frankly I'm surprised he could bring himself to choose two black fighters, because by doing so he's going against his whole racial profiling angle...but I guess he's okay with it since neither one is African American.

Stiverne is native Central American and Canada is in the American continent. And Stiverne and Haye are black.

This should serve obviously as a proof that I don't CARE if a fighter is black or white. And I don't CARE if a fighter is American, Russian, or even fucking Chinese! I also don't care if the fighter is heavy or light, tall or short, lean or fat!

And more than anything I DEFINITELY don't care if the boxer is hyped or not or if they are FAMOUS or not in America!

I only care about their ACTUAL QUALITY as boxers!

Jennings, Perez, Wilder and Thompson are top quality boxers by my own admission and are black and American. "I" support them BETTER than YOU even do and they're from your own race and country!

Who is the nationalist? Who is the racist?

You really are that dumb huh?

My whole point was that you chose them because they AREN'T American, then you go on to tell me how they aren't American.

So so stupid...

Also, last time I checked (a minute ago) I wasn't either black or American you idiotic fucktard!

No wonder your baby's momma doesn't want to bang you anymore. It's amazing you got her to in the first place.

Actually I can tell you immediately right now that I chose those boxers immediately off the top of my head and you cannot disprove otherwise.

But we don't have to argue about this...

We can have it your way and allow me to select an American boxer...

What about Deontay Wilder.

I know. Wilder. The most famous bum beater since Butterbean and Sonny Liston.

Can you honestly be SURE that Iron Mike, Big Daddy, The Real Deal or The Lion can DEFINITELY expose Wilder?

You know I believe there are great chances any of them would.

But I also know that that kind of assessment is anything BUT assured. Because none of them faced such a unique kind of opponent as Wilder. And they were all pasted by lesser boxers than Wilder at some stage!

Sorry to get off topic but someone mentioned Butterbean. I used to enjoy watching him fight but I was young at the time and just a casual fan. I know he was labeled as a bumbeater but who was the best he ever faced.

Also, I can't wait for the day when we can seriously talk about Wilder. Really, one good opponent and we can start assessing where this guy is coming from or going.

But getting back to my original, who was the best that Butterbean beat. God he was funny to watch

Well since butterbean is 300 pounds, he must be able to beat Ali and Frazier.

[powerpuncher]

You have to be a troll. I'm convinced.

FACTS = Trolling now does it?

Well I guess I am guilty!

Stiverne being one of the hardest hitters p4p of all time is fact?

[Max Power]

@Max Power, you know so much about heavyweight boxing, I can't believe people even try to convince you otherwise.

You're Saddo's greatest poster of all time. Thanks for being here!

I don't claim to be the greatest expert on boxing or HW boxing. But I do have access to a wide resource of stats and know how to make a proper analysis based on that and their recorded performances and their opponents.

I DO make a somewhat bold claim that so-called EXPERTS opinions in boxing in particular are next to worthless! Most of the time! Except on the rare occasion where that experts opinion falls in line with real evidence.

I don't claim to have expert training knowledge on the intricacies of coaching fighters, which is why I would never extend myself beyond anything basic. But I DO know straight up BS when I'm reading it too.

Your sarcasm is noted.

[Max Power]

Do you really think that Bermane Stiverne and David Haye could not match Tyson and Holyfield?

HAhahaHAHAHahaHaHHAhah!!!!

How stupid are you!?

His sole criteria for choosing those four fighters was that none of them are American.
Frankly I'm surprised he could bring himself to choose two black fighters, because by doing so he's going against his whole racial profiling angle...but I guess he's okay with it since neither one is African American.

Stiverne is native Central American and Canada is in the American continent. And Stiverne and Haye are black.

This should serve obviously as a proof that I don't CARE if a fighter is black or white. And I don't CARE if a fighter is American, Russian, or even fucking Chinese! I also don't care if the fighter is heavy or light, tall or short, lean or fat!

And more than anything I DEFINITELY don't care if the boxer is hyped or not or if they are FAMOUS or not in America!

I only care about their ACTUAL QUALITY as boxers!

Jennings, Perez, Wilder and Thompson are top quality boxers by my own admission and are black and American. "I" support them BETTER than YOU even do and they're from your own race and country!

Who is the nationalist? Who is the racist?

You really are that dumb huh?

My whole point was that you chose them because they AREN'T American, then you go on to tell me how they aren't American.

So so stupid...

Also, last time I checked (a minute ago) I wasn't either black or American you idiotic fucktard!

No wonder your baby's momma doesn't want to bang you anymore. It's amazing you got her to in the first place.

Actually I can tell you immediately right now that I chose those boxers immediately off the top of my head and you cannot disprove otherwise.

But we don't have to argue about this...

We can have it your way and allow me to select an American boxer...

What about Deontay Wilder.

I know. Wilder. The most famous bum beater since Butterbean and Sonny Liston.

Can you honestly be SURE that Iron Mike, Big Daddy, The Real Deal or The Lion can DEFINITELY expose Wilder?

You know I believe there are great chances any of them would.

But I also know that that kind of assessment is anything BUT assured. Because none of them faced such a unique kind of opponent as Wilder. And they were all pasted by lesser boxers than Wilder at some stage!

Sorry to get off topic but someone mentioned Butterbean. I used to enjoy watching him fight but I was young at the time and just a casual fan. I know he was labeled as a bumbeater but who was the best he ever faced.

Also, I can't wait for the day when we can seriously talk about Wilder. Really, one good opponent and we can start assessing where this guy is coming from or going.

But getting back to my original, who was the best that Butterbean beat. God he was funny to watch

Well since butterbean is 300 pounds, he must be able to beat Ali and Frazier.

The best opponent he faced was Larry Holmes and he lost.

The best opponent he beat was a decent opponent Peter McNeeley (you know, the one who said he was going to wrap Mike Tyson up in a "cocoon of horror" LOL and then proceeded to try and do so! But yeah considering Peter was a journeyman facing other journeymen it's clear Butterbean was cherry picking his entire career.

Butterbean is a good testament to a lot of things concerning "Max Powerism"...

1/ That weight (even fat weight) can substitute for quality (his win/loss ratio).
2/ That to make a proper assessment of boxers worth, you MUST define what is a bum and what is not a bum (for me this is a boxer who is a 10 fight green or less or has otherwise lost 25% of his fights). And you MUST kick all the bums off the record to make a proper comparison between any set of boxers.

By considering only meaningful fights, everything "automatically" falls into place and you can see clearly that guys like...

Deontay Wilder,
Ken Norton,
Butterbean,
Sonny Liston,
LaMar Clarke

as the most famous examples, are cherry pickers MAINLY! And there rating is in proper intuitive order.

As for whether Esch could beat Muhammad Ali or Joe Frazier, I don't really know! Frazier and Ali certainly had better records. Neither of them had the privilege of fighting such a rounded fat ass like butterball though! LOL I'll leave that for you to decide! haha

[Max Power]

You have to be a troll. I'm convinced.

FACTS = Trolling now does it?

Well I guess I am guilty!

Stiverne being one of the hardest hitters p4p of all time is fact?

Did I say that Stiverne was one of the hardest hitters of all time p4p?

I said he was one of the hardest hitters of all time. Meaning in absolute terms! Obviously!

We are talking about HW boxing. p4p has F/A to do with it!

[ruthless rocco]

@Max Power , you know so much about heavyweight boxing, I can't believe people even try to convince you otherwise.

You're Saddo's greatest poster of all time. Thanks for being here!

I don't claim to be the greatest expert on boxing or HW boxing. But I do have access to a wide resource of stats and know how to make a proper analysis based on that and their recorded performances and their opponents.

I DO make a somewhat bold claim that so-called EXPERTS opinions in boxing in particular are next to worthless! Most of the time! Except on the rare occasion where that experts opinion falls in line with real evidence.

I don't claim to have expert training knowledge on the intricacies of coaching fighters, which is why I would never extend myself beyond anything basic. But I DO know straight up BS when I'm reading it too.

Your sarcasm is noted.

You're a fucking retard.
I have the stats to prove it.
Fact.

[SugarBoxing]

MP theory is the best boxing theory of 2014, great improvement over triangle theory

[Max Power]

Yeah.... that's the funny thing about arguments, Max.
Someone says something you yourself have said countless times..... you agree.
Someone takes the opposite side..... you disagree.

Hope this helps.

BTW, exposing myths involves a bit more than to say..... "Uhh... I don't think so."

Hope this helps also.

I know you feel that Wlad has an iron chin and throws caution to the wind in order to provide us fans with memorable, exciting fights. I'm sorry most of us are so blind we just don't see it that way. Wlad fouling his way through fights to protect his fine china chin? Nah..... that's just a figment of our imagination.

This generation of HW's is comparable in quality to any other? If you say so... it must be true. I don't know how I could have possible snoozed through classics like Wlad-Sultan and Wlad-Povetkin..... not to mention the epics Wlad-Thompson I and II.

Austin? Piñata....er.... I mean..... Pianeta? Leapai?
Future HOF'ers all of them.

There is nothing worse than having to respond to a poster who hasn't properly read what has been offered to begin with... But I'll let you off this time...

1. I never said Wladimir has an iron chin. I specifically specified he has a good chin, not an iron one. I specifically said if he gets tagged hard, he gets hurt.

2. It is a good idea, in the modern HW division (WK average opponent weight nearly 240lbs) to keep your chin protected well. Wladimir isn't the only one, even Stiverne who I showed earlier is extremely guarded. They all KNOW that can be KOed easily today with only slight mistakes made. This goes whether you have a hard chin or not!

3. Not taking punches is ALWAYS good boxing. You can criticise if you are Chris Byrd (safety first, safety second), but Wladimir beats the living crap out of his opponents and usually KO's them.

4. I DID say Wladimir had an iron chin, but only in relation to PRE-80's eras! In fact I can't think of ANY pre-80's boxer, as they were then, that definitely had a harder chin than Wladimir! None of them EVER had to withstand the kind of power that they would have to in the modern division. And it makes sense too because pre 80's the average opponent weight started at 200lbs and drops lower and lower as you run time backwards!

5. Fouling? When WK gets DQ'd, then we'll call it fouling. Alexander Povetkin fight? I agree. Wladmir should have been warned. That one fight aside, Muhammad Ali hold's the records for most clinching in HW boxing. Going to discount all his fights too? Yeah right!

6. Wlad vs Sultan was a boring fight. Wlad vs Povetkin was cringe worthy. I agree! There were comparably boring and foul filled fights back in the day too, you are simply biased! Ali himself was responsible for many of them, as well as many other boxers who prefer to fight on the outside! Thompson vs Wladimir 1 and 2 were good fights, by any measure!

7. I don't think those boxers you mentioned would be HOFers. I think many other better WK opponents will definitely be though. Anybody who thinks none of Wladimir's opponents will become HOFers is kidding themselves. If not, the HOF will effectively come to an end! In fact the HOF is worthless. For their to be many HOFers in any one era, NOBODY can really be that good, because if there was anybody that good, they would not allow other boxers to shine so brightly!

HOF is basically nothing more than an honour bestowed on a boxer for his achievements against the criteria of his own era. Nothing more!

[powerpuncher]

You have to be a troll. I'm convinced.

FACTS = Trolling now does it?

Well I guess I am guilty!

Stiverne being one of the hardest hitters p4p of all time is fact?

Did I say that Stiverne was one of the hardest hitters of all time p4p?

I said he was one of the hardest hitters of all time. Meaning in absolute terms! Obviously!

We are talking about HW boxing. p4p has F/A to do with it!

and your facts to back up that statement? since i know that you only deal in facts.

[ruthless rocco]

Facts! Facts! Facts! @Max Power

[Beanflicker]

Max is a powerful poster