Thomas Jefferson and American History

[walrus]

First off ......a big old


Slavery did not "cause" the War Between The States and it was not a "Civil War" as the Southern States attempted only to secede (as they thought was their right) not to take control of the United States.

The War Between The States was not about slavery as Border States: Delaware, Maryland, Kentucky, and Missouri kept their slaves after the Emancipation Proclamation of 1863 (the War started in 1861 fyi) and all slaves were freed after the 13th Amendment to the Constitution was ratified in 1865. With the secession of Confederate States in 1861, the United States House and Senate were free to pass any legislation without obstruction of the states that had seceded...why wait until 1863 to act? Unless of course slavery was NOT the main issue at hand but rather a cause du jour to rally a base of people (Abolitionists, former slaves, and Free blacks) to join the ranks and fight the Confederacy.


Alas this falls on deaf ears as the rule always applies "the winners write history" and so it is

Why did you even bring that up. We were not talking about the civil war. You can say the war wasn't about slavery and be partly right as it was about states rights over the Federal Governments power but slavery was a part of that.

[El Kabong]

Why did you even bring that up. We were not talking about the civil war. You can say the war wasn't about slavery and be partly right as it was about states rights over the Federal Governments power but slavery was a part of that.

Economy (Agrarian vs Industrial), political power/taxation/infrastructure, the strength of the Federal Government vs the power of States' rights (which we see unfold now in political battles of Gay Marriage, Marijuana Legalization, Abortion, etc), the Presidential election of 1860, the Morrill Tariff, and whether or not the Union of the United States was one that was voluntary or forced all played large roles.

Slavery? Look at the timeline of action taken by government I'm sorry it doesn't add up. Many Southerners viewed slavery as a blight on our history and rightfully so, and many Northerners did not give 2 shits for black lives as all freeing slaves would do is drive down their already meager wages. See the New York City Draft Riots of 1863. General Robert E. Lee freed slaves he inherited he did not own slaves, neither did General Josef E. Johnston. General Stonewall Jackson had a tortured mind on slavery as he was devotedly religious he believed if it was in the Bible then it must be alright, however, he broke the law of his home state of Virginia and taught many slaves to read and donated liberally to their Church which he helped create. The Confederate Constitution banned the overseas slave trade. In 1864 Confederate States began abolishing slavery (the war ended in 1865). Slavery wasn't fully abolished until 1868 (a full 3 years after the war). Also blacks fighting for the Confederacy (of which there were many) were paid equally as their white counterparts which differed greatly from the Union's stance which saw blacks only earn a portion of what their white counterparts were paid.

Slavery was an ill of civilization and if it took a war to stop it (or if that's what people want to believe) then so be it.

[El Kabong]

H. K. Edgerton - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It is a VERY complex situation and very few have the stones HK Edgerton has to tell the TRUTH and not some politically correct bullshit.

[VictorCharlie]

Lyle,

You are getting pretty pedantic about this. The South seceded because the election of Lincoln without a single electoral vote from the South represented a permanent political marginalization of the region. The Republicans/Federalists concern of political "Slave Power" had finally been broken by cobbling the abolitionists with the Northerners who had been convinced (and to an extent, rightfully so) that the South was wielding an over exaggerated political power that was hurting the North not only in DC but also economically. Lincoln was first and foremost a Unionists which lead to the postponing of freeing the slaves. He is quoted as saying "If I could save the Union without freeing any slave, I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves, I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone, I would also do that. What I do about Slavery and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save this Union, and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union." At the crux of the secession though was the South's belief that abolition had now become and inevitable conclusion.

[walrus]

Yes Lincoln did say that. In the Lincoln v Douglas debates he actually backed slavery. If you read his speeches you can see his evolution to a staunch abolitionist. He would not allow slavery to stand.

[El Kabong]

Lincoln's job was to preserve the Union, he achieved success in a most lucky manner. The President that followed him was even worse and allowed for deep rooted bitterness to set in as he sought "to make the South pay"....for what is the biggest question.


If the war Between the States was about slavery then why were border states allowed to keep their slaves following the Emancipation?