Fighters who just stand there and let the Klits tee-off

[Max Power]

The only thing you can REALLY say about Klitschko's style is that it is based around his range.

He only outweighs about 50% of his opposition and his average opponent weight is a little smaller than himself at nearly 240lbs now (just shy). Weight which is ALWAYS an advantage even when the boxer with it is bummy.

But he out-talls most of his opponents, which is only a major advantage in itself (out-talling) when the boxer is skilled and knows how to effectively utilise height and range (as Klitschko obviously does better than anyone else).

However if you want to slam Klitschko for this, you also have to slam..

Geroge Foreman (who out-talled AND outweighed nearly every opponent faced)
Muhammad Ali (who out-talled nearly every opponent AND outweighed 70% of them!)
Lennox Lewis (who out-talled and out-weighed nearly every single opponent faced!)

As you can see, signature favourites of yours are no better in this regard but in fact had bigger advantages over the competition!

If you take Wladimir's height away, he would not be nearly as effective. IF you take Muhammad's height away, and paint him white, he is Jerry Quarry!

[Andre]

Yeah but wars Max wheres the wars?
Theres no more wars.

[Max Power]

Yeah but wars Max wheres the wars?
Theres no more wars.

Ironically, if you want to see "wars" you have to look to the more UNSKILLED boxers.

Skilled boxers=technical fight

Unskilled boxers=war

My favourite "war" was Bowe vs Holyfield trilogy.

Because Holyfield was too small to nullify Bowe and liked to abandon skills to slug it out often anyway.

And Bowe did not have the level of skill necessary to utilise his height and keep Holyfield at the end of his jab. Bowe- often credited with his infighting double threat ability, should be equally discredited with having to resort to it.

What ensues is a slug fest. Enabled of course because they both possessed very solid chins of course.

[Andre]

Yeah but wars Max wheres the wars?
Theres no more wars.

Ironically, if you want to see "wars" you have to look to the more UNSKILLED boxers.

Skilled boxers=technical fight

Unskilled boxers=war

My favourite "war" was Bowe vs Holyfield trilogy.

Because Holyfield was too small to nullify Bowe and liked to abandon skills to slug it out often anyway.

And Bowe did not have the level of skill necessary to utilise his height and keep Holyfield at the end of his jab. Bowe- often credited with his infighting double threat ability, should be equally discredited with having to resort to it.

What ensues is a slug fest. Enabled of course because they both possessed very solid chins of course.

Unskilled boxers=war

I'd reword that if it was me, It does occur, but it isnt a monopolizing factor.

Balls and the decision to not be controlled also equals war.

I wouldnt call Tua and Ibeabuchi unskilled or Morrales or Barrera,or Ali or most of his warring partners through the years either for that matter.

Maybe the easy knock outs on the way for these men you can call unskilled but that is also comparative.

[Spicoli]

I'd let and encourage the Klit tee off all it wanted to

[Max Power]

Yeah but wars Max wheres the wars?
Theres no more wars.

Ironically, if you want to see "wars" you have to look to the more UNSKILLED boxers.

Skilled boxers=technical fight

Unskilled boxers=war

My favourite "war" was Bowe vs Holyfield trilogy.

Because Holyfield was too small to nullify Bowe and liked to abandon skills to slug it out often anyway.

And Bowe did not have the level of skill necessary to utilise his height and keep Holyfield at the end of his jab. Bowe- often credited with his infighting double threat ability, should be equally discredited with having to resort to it.

What ensues is a slug fest. Enabled of course because they both possessed very solid chins of course.

Unskilled boxers=war

I'd reword that if it was me, It does occur, but it isnt a monopolizing factor.

Balls and the decision to not be controlled also equals war.

I wouldnt call Tua and Ibeabuchi unskilled or Morrales or Barrera,or Ali or most of his warring partners through the years either for that matter.

Maybe the easy knock outs on the way for these men you can call unskilled but that is also comparative.

Tua was very unskilled, he was a basic tanker with a hard chin and hard punch and that is about it as far as skills go.

Ali was a fundamentally very unskilled boxer, lacking in basic fight reflexes and technical ability. He made up for it with great stamina always, height and speed when he was younger and later on, chin and experience.

Ali's warring partner Frazier was about as skilless as can be like Tua (without the chin or the punch though).

Ibeabuchi had fundamental skills but nothing more and nothing "controlling", he boxed a bit and slugged too and often found himself inside. He could not control Byrd or Tua properly.

Morales and Barera, I grant you are well rounded fighters. They fight in limit weight division where it is necessary for success to be well rounded. Also they fight in rather light divisions where the punches are more bareable, thus enabling them to participate in that sort of fight to a much greater degree than a HW.

Hypothetically Andre, if we take one of our modern technically great fighters like Klitschko or Haye and we gave them first rate chins (assuming they are glass jawed now like many claim), how much punishment or hard punches do you really think they could take?

I mean Arreola was a very tough guy, extremely hard chinned but one really cracker punch from Stiverne and he was done the moment that first one landed really.

The power of the modern HW division I believe is now so great that even the hardest of chins will be cracked by the hardest of punches.

And even if they had a titanium chin that could withstand any slug fest with the hardest hitters, why the hell would they want to? When they can soundly outbox their opponents?

Nobody WANTS to get punched in the face as far as I am aware! The brawlers that enter into this stuff do it because it's the only way they CAN do it at the time.

I am certain that top level professional boxers did not routinely abandon their skills to slug it out merely for the entertainment of the spectators. That doesn't ring true.

I think it was an acceptable risk in previous HW eras (the Ali era, the Louis era), because the punches were much weaker. You get the feeling when watching these fights that an ordinary man could withstand a lot of those shots.

Not so today, you can almost feel some of todays shots and most HW's know they cannot be taking those kinds of shots in their time.

The days of taking a hundred shots to land ten of your own are over I am afraid, and it's only going to get worse.. OR better, depending on how you look at it.

I like action too. But I also appreciate real skills as well.

[Max Power]

Deontay Wilder is a case in point...

He has relatively very poor skills.

He has no stamina or chin to speak of.

But he has such a hard punch, such range and such good delivery (atleast against his mismatched opponents to date) that it doesn't matter! Very few far more skilled boxers with relatively better chin and great stamina could withstand the one trick pony.

[Andre]

Yeah but wars Max wheres the wars?
Theres no more wars.

Ironically, if you want to see "wars" you have to look to the more UNSKILLED boxers.

Skilled boxers=technical fight

Unskilled boxers=war

My favourite "war" was Bowe vs Holyfield trilogy.

Because Holyfield was too small to nullify Bowe and liked to abandon skills to slug it out often anyway.

And Bowe did not have the level of skill necessary to utilise his height and keep Holyfield at the end of his jab. Bowe- often credited with his infighting double threat ability, should be equally discredited with having to resort to it.

What ensues is a slug fest. Enabled of course because they both possessed very solid chins of course.

Unskilled boxers=war

I'd reword that if it was me, It does occur, but it isnt a monopolizing factor.

Balls and the decision to not be controlled also equals war.

I wouldnt call Tua and Ibeabuchi unskilled or Morrales or Barrera,or Ali or most of his warring partners through the years either for that matter.

Maybe the easy knock outs on the way for these men you can call unskilled but that is also comparative.

Tua was very unskilled, he was a basic tanker with a hard chin and hard punch and that is about it as far as skills go.

Ali was a fundamentally very unskilled boxer, lacking in basic fight reflexes and technical ability. He made up for it with great stamina always, height and speed when he was younger and later on, chin and experience.

Ali's warring partner Frazier was about as skilless as can be like Tua (without the chin or the punch though).

Ibeabuchi had fundamental skills but nothing more and nothing "controlling", he boxed a bit and slugged too and often found himself inside. He could not control Byrd or Tua properly.

Morales and Barera, I grant you are well rounded fighters. They fight in limit weight division where it is necessary for success to be well rounded. Also they fight in rather light divisions where the punches are more bareable, thus enabling them to participate in that sort of fight to a much greater degree than a HW.

Hypothetically Andre, if we take one of our modern technically great fighters like Klitschko or Haye and we gave them first rate chins (assuming they are glass jawed now like many claim), how much punishment or hard punches do you really think they could take?

I mean Arreola was a very tough guy, extremely hard chinned but one really cracker punch from Stiverne and he was done the moment that first one landed really.

The power of the modern HW division I believe is now so great that even the hardest of chins will be cracked by the hardest of punches.

And even if they had a titanium chin that could withstand any slug fest with the hardest hitters, why the hell would they want to? When they can soundly outbox their opponents?

Nobody WANTS to get punched in the face as far as I am aware! The brawlers that enter into this stuff do it because it's the only way they CAN do it at the time.

I am certain that top level professional boxers did not routinely abandon their skills to slug it out merely for the entertainment of the spectators. That doesn't ring true.

I think it was an acceptable risk in previous HW eras (the Ali era, the Louis era), because the punches were much weaker. You get the feeling when watching these fights that an ordinary man could withstand a lot of those shots.

Not so today, you can almost feel some of todays shots and most HW's know they cannot be taking those kinds of shots in their time.

The days of taking a hundred shots to land ten of your own are over I am afraid, and it's only going to get worse.. OR better, depending on how you look at it.

I like action too. But I also appreciate real skills as well.

Then by all the above the you must of loved Spen Okkte

Keep it, its not for me,neither is generalizing and snowballing whole eras into piles.

This latest one bores me. Skilled yeah sure so was Spen a total master at a few things to be exact.

[Max Power]

Yeah but wars Max wheres the wars?
Theres no more wars.

Ironically, if you want to see "wars" you have to look to the more UNSKILLED boxers.

Skilled boxers=technical fight

Unskilled boxers=war

My favourite "war" was Bowe vs Holyfield trilogy.

Because Holyfield was too small to nullify Bowe and liked to abandon skills to slug it out often anyway.

And Bowe did not have the level of skill necessary to utilise his height and keep Holyfield at the end of his jab. Bowe- often credited with his infighting double threat ability, should be equally discredited with having to resort to it.

What ensues is a slug fest. Enabled of course because they both possessed very solid chins of course.

Unskilled boxers=war

I'd reword that if it was me, It does occur, but it isnt a monopolizing factor.

Balls and the decision to not be controlled also equals war.

I wouldnt call Tua and Ibeabuchi unskilled or Morrales or Barrera,or Ali or most of his warring partners through the years either for that matter.

Maybe the easy knock outs on the way for these men you can call unskilled but that is also comparative.

Tua was very unskilled, he was a basic tanker with a hard chin and hard punch and that is about it as far as skills go.

Ali was a fundamentally very unskilled boxer, lacking in basic fight reflexes and technical ability. He made up for it with great stamina always, height and speed when he was younger and later on, chin and experience.

Ali's warring partner Frazier was about as skilless as can be like Tua (without the chin or the punch though).

Ibeabuchi had fundamental skills but nothing more and nothing "controlling", he boxed a bit and slugged too and often found himself inside. He could not control Byrd or Tua properly.

Morales and Barera, I grant you are well rounded fighters. They fight in limit weight division where it is necessary for success to be well rounded. Also they fight in rather light divisions where the punches are more bareable, thus enabling them to participate in that sort of fight to a much greater degree than a HW.

Hypothetically Andre, if we take one of our modern technically great fighters like Klitschko or Haye and we gave them first rate chins (assuming they are glass jawed now like many claim), how much punishment or hard punches do you really think they could take?

I mean Arreola was a very tough guy, extremely hard chinned but one really cracker punch from Stiverne and he was done the moment that first one landed really.

The power of the modern HW division I believe is now so great that even the hardest of chins will be cracked by the hardest of punches.

And even if they had a titanium chin that could withstand any slug fest with the hardest hitters, why the hell would they want to? When they can soundly outbox their opponents?

Nobody WANTS to get punched in the face as far as I am aware! The brawlers that enter into this stuff do it because it's the only way they CAN do it at the time.

I am certain that top level professional boxers did not routinely abandon their skills to slug it out merely for the entertainment of the spectators. That doesn't ring true.

I think it was an acceptable risk in previous HW eras (the Ali era, the Louis era), because the punches were much weaker. You get the feeling when watching these fights that an ordinary man could withstand a lot of those shots.

Not so today, you can almost feel some of todays shots and most HW's know they cannot be taking those kinds of shots in their time.

The days of taking a hundred shots to land ten of your own are over I am afraid, and it's only going to get worse.. OR better, depending on how you look at it.

I like action too. But I also appreciate real skills as well.

Then by all the above the you must of loved Spen Okkte

Keep it, its not for me,neither is generalizing and snowballing whole eras into piles.

This latest one bores me. Skilled yeah sure so was Spen a total master at a few things to be exact.

Hehe, very funny!

I will be honest, Wladimir personally is not the most exciting. Many of the other HW's still are though.

I think the 90's era HW's was possibly the most watchable era. And Tyson in the 80's.

Although I understand what you mean about battles before that time, I have seen more than enough of them, they just don't do it for me like the 90's and a few more recent battles do either as far as even wars go.

I think there needs to be a bit of both for watchability. I want to see big stong guys that can knock you senseless with a punch and high tension, forced skill level because of it, AND some back and forth action as well.

For this particular combination, I personally prefer the 90's over all other eras.

But then again, I am obviously not nostalgic about eras I had no connection to, and I am only 33 (34 in MArch) so I never actually lived it.

That might qualify me as somewhat era biased.

I just don't feel the tension in an Ali fight, nobody ever really looks like they're in any danger of getting seriously hurt ever in any of those fights to be honest. Similarly with previous eras.

[Beanz]

The only thing you can REALLY say about Klitschko's style is that it is based around his range.

He only outweighs about 50% of his opposition and his average opponent weight is a little smaller than himself at nearly 240lbs now (just shy). Weight which is ALWAYS an advantage even when the boxer with it is bummy.

But he out-talls most of his opponents, which is only a major advantage in itself (out-talling) when the boxer is skilled and knows how to effectively utilise height and range (as Klitschko obviously does better than anyone else).

However if you want to slam Klitschko for this, you also have to slam..

Geroge Foreman (who out-talled AND outweighed nearly every opponent faced)
Muhammad Ali (who out-talled nearly every opponent AND outweighed 70% of them!)
Lennox Lewis (who out-talled and out-weighed nearly every single opponent faced!)

As you can see, signature favourites of yours are no better in this regard but in fact had bigger advantages over the competition!

If you take Wladimir's height away, he would not be nearly as effective. IF you take Muhammad's height away, and paint him white, he is Jerry Quarry!

Out -Talled

[Master]

The only thing you can REALLY say about Klitschko's style is that it is based around his range.

He only outweighs about 50% of his opposition and his average opponent weight is a little smaller than himself at nearly 240lbs now (just shy). Weight which is ALWAYS an advantage even when the boxer with it is bummy.

But he out-talls most of his opponents, which is only a major advantage in itself (out-talling) when the boxer is skilled and knows how to effectively utilise height and range (as Klitschko obviously does better than anyone else).

However if you want to slam Klitschko for this, you also have to slam..

Geroge Foreman (who out-talled AND outweighed nearly every opponent faced)
Muhammad Ali (who out-talled nearly every opponent AND outweighed 70% of them!)
Lennox Lewis (who out-talled and out-weighed nearly every single opponent faced!)

As you can see, signature favourites of yours are no better in this regard but in fact had bigger advantages over the competition!

If you take Wladimir's height away, he would not be nearly as effective. IF you take Muhammad's height away, and paint him white, he is Jerry Quarry!

Out -Talled

It is a technical term and not made up at all. Honest.

[SlimTrae]

The only thing you can REALLY say about Klitschko's style is that it is based around his range.

He only outweighs about 50% of his opposition and his average opponent weight is a little smaller than himself at nearly 240lbs now (just shy). Weight which is ALWAYS an advantage even when the boxer with it is bummy.

But he out-talls most of his opponents, which is only a major advantage in itself (out-talling) when the boxer is skilled and knows how to effectively utilise height and range (as Klitschko obviously does better than anyone else).

However if you want to slam Klitschko for this, you also have to slam..

Geroge Foreman (who out-talled AND outweighed nearly every opponent faced)
Muhammad Ali (who out-talled nearly every opponent AND outweighed 70% of them!)
Lennox Lewis (who out-talled and out-weighed nearly every single opponent faced!)

As you can see, signature favourites of yours are no better in this regard but in fact had bigger advantages over the competition!

If you take Wladimir's height away, he would not be nearly as effective. IF you take Muhammad's height away, and paint him white, he is Jerry Quarry!

Out -Talled

It is a technical term and not made up at all. Honest.

yup, Just like David haye's loss to Wlad:he got out toed.

[Andre]

The only thing you can REALLY say about Klitschko's style is that it is based around his range.

He only outweighs about 50% of his opposition and his average opponent weight is a little smaller than himself at nearly 240lbs now (just shy). Weight which is ALWAYS an advantage even when the boxer with it is bummy.

But he out-talls most of his opponents, which is only a major advantage in itself (out-talling) when the boxer is skilled and knows how to effectively utilise height and range (as Klitschko obviously does better than anyone else).

However if you want to slam Klitschko for this, you also have to slam..

Geroge Foreman (who out-talled AND outweighed nearly every opponent faced)
Muhammad Ali (who out-talled nearly every opponent AND outweighed 70% of them!)
Lennox Lewis (who out-talled and out-weighed nearly every single opponent faced!)

As you can see, signature favourites of yours are no better in this regard but in fact had bigger advantages over the competition!

If you take Wladimir's height away, he would not be nearly as effective. IF you take Muhammad's height away, and paint him white, he is Jerry Quarry!

Out -Talled

It is a technical term and not made up at all. Honest.

yup, Just like David haye's loss to Wlad:he got out toed.

Out toed is like a Brooklyn style shoe in da ass?

[Beanz]

The only thing you can REALLY say about Klitschko's style is that it is based around his range.

He only outweighs about 50% of his opposition and his average opponent weight is a little smaller than himself at nearly 240lbs now (just shy). Weight which is ALWAYS an advantage even when the boxer with it is bummy.

But he out-talls most of his opponents, which is only a major advantage in itself (out-talling) when the boxer is skilled and knows how to effectively utilise height and range (as Klitschko obviously does better than anyone else).

However if you want to slam Klitschko for this, you also have to slam..

Geroge Foreman (who out-talled AND outweighed nearly every opponent faced)
Muhammad Ali (who out-talled nearly every opponent AND outweighed 70% of them!)
Lennox Lewis (who out-talled and out-weighed nearly every single opponent faced!)

As you can see, signature favourites of yours are no better in this regard but in fact had bigger advantages over the competition!

If you take Wladimir's height away, he would not be nearly as effective. IF you take Muhammad's height away, and paint him white, he is Jerry Quarry!

Out -Talled

It is a technical term and not made up at all. Honest.

yup, Just like David haye's loss to Wlad:he got out toed.

Out toed is like a Brooklyn style shoe in da ass?

No, he said Out Toad, like a proud homosexual amphibian