Sir Winston Churchill

[Beanz]

Miles, admiration is not idolatry, and to suggest that Churchill, one of the greatest speech writers and pragmatists who changed his political party three times, and made decisive decisions, often contrary to his advisors, was a puppet, is a bit daft. And now you are suggesting he was both a war criminal and a paedophile? Seriously it just comes across as being contrary for the sake of it and condescending to everyone else as though we are all a bit stupid or something. You don't have to agree with everything someone does to recognise their merits. Not every non working class person is a nonce or a cunt.

[Gandalf]

Beanz, recently there was been a lot of 'Praise Churchill to the skies' in the media which washes over his own genocide in India, his carpet bombing of Dresden, and almost nobody ever mentions his fondness for the company of younger men. I am not trying to be contrary, but merely to point out that he wasn't such a great man and that in terms of war crimes he is little different to Hitler and that in terms of sexuality he may well have been your classic Establishment peadophile which is something even Hitler would rather avoid.

I don't understand Churchill as a so called great leader. The greatness was in the men who took great risks for their country in a war that would never have occurred had the Treaty of Versailles never forced Germany into their own permanent austerity. Politicians like Churchill led to rise of Nazi Germany and some in the monarchy even admired Hitler. I will never respect a man who carpet bombs innocent people. Never. And if he buggers children, then even worse. His writings for instance, will never atone for his elitist barbarism.

Churchill and Hitler are two sides of the same coin to me.