Larry Holmes- Championship run needs revisiting?

[Bill Paxtom]

That's not what I'm saying, but I guess in cloud cuckoo land you view things how you want to.

I know exactly of what you were saying.

It's typical for a Cassius Clay 'Brown-Noser'.

[TitoFan]

That's not what I'm saying, but I guess in cloud cuckoo land you view things how you want to.

I know exactly of what you were saying.

It's typical for a Cassius Clay 'Brown-Noser'.

No Bill.

It's typical for a sensible human being who does not enjoy the spectacle of seeing a fighter in a boxing ring who really has no business being there.... and being on the receiving end of physical punishment which eventually has terrible consequences on that person's health.

Nothing you say can justify the crass lack of sensitivity you've shown.

[AdamGB]

Most fighters go on far too long, Shavers was struggling with journeymen and got battered in 2 rounds in 1995... Far too old. No rational human would hold such a grudge against ANY boxer to continually gloat about it several decades after the fact.

You're intense, obsessive distain goes way beyond boxing, did you oppose the civil rights movement Bill? I'm struggling to think what else could be notable enough to not just have left a chip on your shoulder, but completely severed it.

It can't be the trash talking? Ali wasn't the first, maybe the brashest for his time but boxing has seen PLENTY of trash talking since so it can't be that?

You're an old man, so it would make sense.

[Bill Paxtom]

First,

Nobody held a gun to the head of Muhammad Ali to get into the Ring with Larry Holmes.

Second,

It was Muhammad Ali's intention to 'embarrass' Larry Holmes as a nothing fighter.

Third,

Muhammad Ali was 'jealous' that another fighter took away the spotlight.

[brocktonblockbust]

I understand what Bill is saying. Muhammad Ali was so offensive and disrespectful to one of the greatest fighters of all-time ARCHIE MOORE, really disrespectful. And Muhammad Ali was also tremendously disrespectful and hurtful to Joe Frazier, really over-the-top, and also as Bill pointed out to Floyd Patterson, who was ALWAYS A GENTLEMAN and a model citizen. Ali definitely went too far with his hurtful comments to people. So I think what Bill is saying is that it is a bit satisfying to see the loudmouth bully get his lil' ass whipped.

I understand @AdamGB that is does look like a grudge.

[TitoFan]

I understand what Bill is saying. Muhammad Ali was so offensive and disrespectful to one of the greatest fighters of all-time ARCHIE MOORE, really disrespectful. And Muhammad Ali was also tremendously disrespectful and hurtful to Joe Frazier, really over-the-top, and also as Bill pointed out to Floyd Patterson, who was ALWAYS A GENTLEMAN and a model citizen. Ali definitely went too far with his hurtful comments to people. So I think what Bill is saying is that it is a bit satisfying to see the loudmouth bully get his lil' ass whipped.

I understand @AdamGB that is does look like a grudge.

Only Frazier transcended beyond the ring. Ali had names for everybody. He called Liston the Bear. I have to think everyone else besides Frazier understood that Ali was just being a character, one who brought a lot of attention to boxing. Be it from fans, or from haters who wanted for someone to shut Ali's mouth..... Ali's antics brought a lot of attention to boxing. Attention that carried on through the wonderful 70's and 80's.

Wanting to see Ali get whipped is one thing, and quite normal enough. To be glad about Ali suffering from Parkinson's as a result of the extreme beating he took waaaaaaay beyond his time against Holmes is quite another.

On the other hand, I've always been a Holmes hater. Whereas Ali's taunts always had a touch of clowning and hardly taken seriously (again, except for Frazier)...... Holmes spent his entire career lashing out and whining about his perceived lack of attention. The fact that he climbed the ring and beat up on a practically mummified Ali speaks volumes in and of itself.

It's no one's fault that Holmes happened to arrive after Ali, and probably forgotten soon after Tyson showed up. He (Holmes) had his career. Like he liked to say..... the only color he cared about was green. Although now that I think about it, I can't say whether he was talking about money..... or actually talking about envy. Coincidence?

Bottom line to me is.... you can hate a fighter.
But to be glad of his injuries or illnesses..... that's something else altogether.

[brocktonblockbust]

I agree Tito. Im def not glad of any boxer's injury or illness. Or any creature's for that matter. I have a soft spot for all creatures.

[AdamGB]

First,

Nobody held a gun to the head of Muhammad Ali to get into the Ring with Larry Holmes.

Second,

It was Muhammad Ali's intention to 'embarrass' Larry Holmes as a nothing fighter.

Third,

Muhammad Ali was 'jealous' that another fighter took away the spotlight.

...and no one is saying that Ali deserves sympathy, just that he doesn't deserve to have an ignorant spectator like you gloating.

[Beanflicker]

"I want all the viewers at home to know... That Larry Holmes is very rich." hahah the post fight interview of this one always cracked me up.

[TitoFan]

Most fighters go on far too long, Shavers was struggling with journeymen and got battered in 2 rounds in 1995... Far too old. No rational human would hold such a grudge against ANY boxer to continually gloat about it several decades after the fact.

You're intense, obsessive distain goes way beyond boxing, did you oppose the civil rights movement Bill? I'm struggling to think what else could be notable enough to not just have left a chip on your shoulder, but completely severed it.

It can't be the trash talking? Ali wasn't the first, maybe the brashest for his time but boxing has seen PLENTY of trash talking since so it can't be that?

You're an old man, so it would make sense.

I'm thinking Bill was around for Ali's peak years. Maybe even old enough to have served in Vietnam... and holds a lifelong grudge against Ali for not having stepped forward when drafted.

The three points he puts forth after your post are nothing that can't be said about countless other fighters who choose to fight on for too long. So basically, nothing explains Bill's obsession with Ali but pure hatred, the kind that only comes from having a personal nerve touched in some way. I'm staying with the Vietnam theory until proven otherwise.

[ykdadamaja]

Most fighters go on far too long, Shavers was struggling with journeymen and got battered in 2 rounds in 1995... Far too old. No rational human would hold such a grudge against ANY boxer to continually gloat about it several decades after the fact.

You're intense, obsessive distain goes way beyond boxing, did you oppose the civil rights movement Bill? I'm struggling to think what else could be notable enough to not just have left a chip on your shoulder, but completely severed it.

It can't be the trash talking? Ali wasn't the first, maybe the brashest for his time but boxing has seen PLENTY of trash talking since so it can't be that?

You're an old man, so it would make sense.

I'm thinking Bill was around for Ali's peak years. Maybe even old enough to have served in Vietnam... and holds a lifelong grudge against Ali for not having stepped forward when drafted.

The three points he puts forth after your post are nothing that can't be said about countless other fighters who choose to fight on for too long. So basically, nothing explains Bill's obsession with Ali but pure hatred, the kind that only comes from having a personal nerve touched in some way. I'm staying with the Vietnam theory until proven otherwise.

I think Bill is Larry Holmes himself. Larry or someone close to Larry, OR a former opponent of Ali that got his ass kicked severely and just cant get over it.