bring back 15 round fights

[SlimTrae]

The days of the 15rounders- when only Real Men applied for the job! R.I.P The GREAT Salvador Sanchez vs the man who would become the "PROFESSOR" Azumah Nelson, damn those were the days!

[SlimTrae]

Heck, yesteryear's fighters knew how to go for the kill-when they were tired, hurt and questioning if they could do more- look at Pryor get rejuvenated in round 14 when he sees the Great ETM Alexis Arguello hurt. This is what champions do: they find the other gear. That last drop of fuel in the tank. R.I.P Alexis Arguello. Rounds 13-15 were & STILL ARE THE CHAMPIONSHIP ROUNDS!

[Max Power]

Those 3 extra rounds are a waste or time.
Find another way to waste our time.

Agreed.

Basically any fight that went longer than 12 rounds in the old days was a sign of failure.

And any stoppage victory scored in Round 13 plus was nearly always due to nothing more than fatigue and stamina management. I basically disregard these stoppages most of the time when making comparisons.

It's interesting to note that when you look at the boxers with the MOST 13+ round fights under their belt, nearly all of them were featherfists!

[brocktonblockbust]

Those 3 extra rounds are a waste or time.
Find another way to waste our time.

Agreed.

Basically any fight that went longer than 12 rounds in the old days was a sign of failure.

And any stoppage victory scored in Round 13 plus was nearly always due to nothing more than fatigue and stamina management. I basically disregard these stoppages most of the time when making comparisons.

It's interesting to note that when you look at the boxers with the MOST 13+ round fights under their belt, nearly all of them were featherfists!

what a wheelbarrow of dung. 13-15 has brought us the most dramatic rounds thruout history. All you young asses have ADD.

[Max Power]

@brocktonblockbust

It's a real toss up for me as to what amounts to more excitement.

Round 13-15 of an olden days fight...

Or the equivalent 10 minutes of championship lawn bowls.

[brocktonblockbust]

@maxpower did you see 15 in norton-holmes? ali-frazier 1? etc

[Max Power]

@<a href="http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingforum/member.php?u=758" target="_blank">maxpower</a> did you see 15 in norton-holmes? ali-frazier 1? etc

Round 15 of Frazier/Ali featured the supposedly "iron chinned" Ali getting knocked down by featherfist handicapped dwarf Frazier, and both guys so utterly exhausted they were in an embrace complete with arm holding & head pushing for almost precisely 50% of the round.

As for Holmes vs Norton, I'll even provide the round as example.



- Sluggish performance,
- Slow
- Completely sapped of energy and strength.
- Absence of any appreciable skill level or sharpness
- Stand right in front of each other slugging it out, no foot, body or head movement like the punch bags of earlier eras.

There is absolutely no way that this can be confused with a modern 12 round fight!

And this is not to say that Holmes and even Norton were ALWAYS like this, it's simply that any stoppages or fight changing events that happened in those later rounds were largely due to nothing more than gas related or pacing reasons, not boxing performance.

When comparing fights from modern eras and past ones, it's necessary to delete rounds 13-15 for a couple of basic reasons.

If they were to fight today, they wouldn't have been able to KO or beat the opponent.

And even more profoundly, 15 round fights is actually an unfair advantage for the nostalgic boxers!

Conventional nostalgic argument goes "Past boxers were 15 rounders, modern boxers couldn't go 15 rounds anymore"

Max Power argument goes "If modern boxers were ALLOWED to box more rounds, modern boxers would have EVEN HIGHER KOratio's (more knockouts) than they already do!

[Master]

How can you not see that was a great round by 2 great fighters who put it all on the line at the highest level?

Max the moron.

[Max Power]

How can you not see that was a great round by 2 great fighters who put it all on the line at the highest level?

Max the moron.

It was a "competitive" round. That is what made it great.

There is a big difference between a competitive round with action and a great display of boxing prowess.

The big question I have is "what is an apparently great champion like Holmes doing in the 15th round with a guy like Norton in the first place!"

[Master]

How can you not see that was a great round by 2 great fighters who put it all on the line at the highest level?

Max the moron.

It was a "competitive" round. That is what made it great.

There is a big difference between a competitive round with action and a great display of boxing prowess.

The big question I have is "what is an apparently great champion like Holmes doing in the 15th round with a guy like Norton in the first place!"

The story was that Holmes was injured, think right bicep, but because this was his big title shot which he may never get again he went through with the fight. This was 15 rounds! Norton was a seasoned campaigner and Holmes was a relative novice who became a great champion.

What is not to understand?

[brocktonblockbust]

max the whole point is that it was exciting to watch and the audience was on the edge of its seat in both of those fights during that 15th round. Both guys being exhausted and still giving it all they had and landing bombs is certainly what boxing is all about at least in part isn't it.

[Max Power]

Yeah ok I suppose you guys are both right on those points, that definitely puts it into perspective @Master and even resonates with my own 101 theory.

And @brocktonblockbust that is correct too. Let's not pretend as if the 12th rounds of many modern fights weren't just as exciting for those reasons too.

I don't have anything particularly against 15 round fights, I just think the longer the fights go for in general, the weaker the performance overall and the weaker the boxers. I wouldn't want to go back to 15, 10-12 rounds seems really optimal to me.

If the 12th round winds up a draw, I am warm to the concept of the sudden death "13th round" as a tie breaker.

And the concept that 12 round fighters couldn't go 15 rounds is one of the most ridiculous arguments I've heard.

[brocktonblockbust]

Max I will tend to agree with you on that point about how these modern day boxers probably not perform too well from 13 to 15. I'm not saying that they are not conditioned well enough to do so but what I am saying is that I do not think that their performance would increase in any way through those championship rounds.

[Max Power]

Max I will tend to agree with you on that point about how these modern day boxers probably not perform too well from 13 to 15. I'm not saying that they are not conditioned well enough to do so but what I am saying is that I do not think that their performance would increase in any way through those championship rounds.

No I would imagine their performance would be affected in a common sense fashion.

If they fought hard the whole fight, their performance in the later rounds would deteriorate in the later rounds also.

If they conserved energy early, they may be able to have energetic bursts and better acumen later.

You might not be using such arguments like they aren't conditioned enough but I assure you there are many out there who do use such arguments.

[brocktonblockbust]

guys like Chris Arreola I don't think could fight 15 rounds. Even Bermain Stivyrne look completely exhausted after 8 or 9....never look so good beyond 8 rounds either and Mike Tyson certainly petered out after eight or nine rounds himself. Gone are the days or fighters could fight 15 solid rounds. Let's take a look at Rocky Marciano that monster just kept getting stronger and stronger the more rounds he fought. I think Rocky could probably fight 20 or 25 rounds no problem