I believe.....

[Manos de Piedra]

I believe if Jack Johnson fought today he'd have today's skill set with the same spirit of kill or be killed, racism all to be damned, he would've been as fearles today as yesteryear.
Thus he beats K2, Lewis, Tyson, Holyfield.

I believe if Ray Robinson fought today he'd beat Floyd & Pac in the same year.

I believed if Ray Robinson had fought Charley Burley, Ray would've been just another good welter, not great.

I believe Archie Moore was right when he called Burley the greatest he ever fought.
I believe Ray Robinson's manager George Gainford that he he "bypassed" Burley.
Today we call it "cherry picking"
I believe its true that Johnny Ray, manager of Billy Conn turned down a proposed match with Burley-by saying- "You can have him for Christmas, for New Year's, or your Aunt Tillie's birthday. But never mention his name again."

I believe Burley would've beatan Floyd & Pac @ WW & Jr Middle & Haglar & Hopkins @ MW.

I believed Burley helped coin the turn "Black Murderers Row" a group of boxers no one gave title shots to- to which Burley fought & beat 3 outta the 5 in this group.

I believe Ray Leonard was afraid to fight Hearns a 2nd time because he knew from fight one-Hearns had his number.

I believe had Tyson fought Tua it would've exceeded Forman-Lyle, Holy-Bowe: their styles was perfect for each other. & Gatti Ward would've been compared to this fight.

And I believe Laila Ali was suppose to fight undefeated HW champ Vonda Ward- But when Ward chose to fight Ann Wolfe as a tuneup and got knocked out & retired..Laila went dancing with the stars.

I believe Bob Arum is the worst promoter ever in boxing & one of the top 10 worst persons on the face of this earth.

Last: I believe had there been no George Forman for Ali to beat, he would've been just another HW.

Burley is a real technician.

[Primo Carnera]

Prime JC would beat prime RJJ

Prime JC was a SMW, Prime RJJ was a MW . Prime RJJ was 15 years before they actually met. Even as a MW , Prime RJJ beats any MW or SMW that there has been.
However , Prime JC (maybe even now with 6 months to get in shape) beats Prime Carl Froch

When do you think Calzaghes prime was?
probably between beating Jeff Lacy in 06 and beating Kessler in 07, at least they were his defining fights. 1 year after that he beat RJJ. Why? When do you think his prime was?

You think Jones prime was 93?

[COLOR="red"] yeah, I do. From 93-96 before he got DQ'd against Montell Griffin, he was invincible. After that, by his own admission, he felt robbed of his career target Of being undefeated, so had to do something else that would be pretty unique, and that was to go up all the weights culminating in being HW World champ. I don't think that he was ever as invincible again. Again, when do you think his prime was?
And I BELIEVE Prime Hatton beats Prime Khan.COLOR]

[SlimTrae]

@ Manos de Piedra - what a shame this is all that was recorded, but then again; these 8 minutes=a volume.

[Manos de Piedra]

@ Manos de Piedra - what a shame this is all that was recorded, but then again; these 8 minutes=a volume.

@SlimTrae It's quite unfortunate that there's hardly any footage of old fighters but from the few jerky, black & white clips you can still see their technical mastery.

[X]

I can't wait for Max Power to post on here, because I just have no idea what his one overriding belief is, that dominates all others. After all, he makes so many interesting and varied posts on subjects.

[X]

I don't subscribe to many of the points on here, but that's the beauty of boxing. Her are some more to fuel the debate;

After the Rumble in the Jungle, Ali quite sensibly wanted no more of Foreman. He knew those tactics wouldn't work again and there was no way there was ever going to be a rematch.

Hearns had Ray Leonard's number, and Ray knew it.

Joe Louis would be heavyweight champ in any era. Had he been born later, he would have been bigger and had the benefit of modern nutrition and training.

Marciano was more than a one dimensional slugger

Floyds undefeated record is worth much less than he thinks. Legacy is also about who you fight, how you fight and how you dominate your time. He ticks all those boxes without worrying about an 0

You can't compare old timers against modern fighters in the same weight division. Sports science has moved on and the weigh in times make it meaningless. A middleweight who weighs in 24 hours before his fight is probably entering the ring a stone heavier than Marvin Hagler did

[ykdadamaja]

It's what we believe!

[Ron Swanson]

Shane Mosley does not beat Tito, terrible matchup for Shane. Too brave for his own good.

[ross]

Prime JC would beat prime RJJ

Prime JC was a SMW, Prime RJJ was a MW . Prime RJJ was 15 years before they actually met. Even as a MW , Prime RJJ beats any MW or SMW that there has been.
However , Prime JC (maybe even now with 6 months to get in shape) beats Prime Carl Froch

When do you think Calzaghes prime was?
probably between beating Jeff Lacy in 06 and beating Kessler in 07, at least they were his defining fights. 1 year after that he beat RJJ. Why? When do you think his prime was?

You think Jones prime was 93?

[COLOR="red"] yeah, I do. From 93-96 before he got DQ'd against Montell Griffin, he was invincible. After that, by his own admission, he felt robbed of his career target Of being undefeated, so had to do something else that would be pretty unique, and that was to go up all the weights culminating in being HW World champ. I don't think that he was ever as invincible again. Again, when do you think his prime was?
And I BELIEVE Prime Hatton beats Prime Khan.COLOR]

Don't know what you've done with the quotes there.

Calzaghes real prime was early 2000's. He had the stamina to fight the way he did later in his career but he also actually punched with authority before his hand problems. Ask Eubank how hard he could hit. He was very good and adapted to not only stay competitive but dominant this is why Hopkins priced himself out of a match he had agreed to back in 2003.

[Primo Carnera]

Prime JC would beat prime RJJ

Prime JC was a SMW, Prime RJJ was a MW . Prime RJJ was 15 years before they actually met. Even as a MW , Prime RJJ beats any MW or SMW that there has been.
However , Prime JC (maybe even now with 6 months to get in shape) beats Prime Carl Froch

When do you think Calzaghes prime was?
probably between beating Jeff Lacy in 06 and beating Kessler in 07, at least they were his defining fights. 1 year after that he beat RJJ. Why? When do you think his prime was?

You think Jones prime was 93?

[COLOR="red"] yeah, I do. From 93-96 before he got DQ'd against Montell Griffin, he was invincible. After that, by his own admission, he felt robbed of his career target Of being undefeated, so had to do something else that would be pretty unique, and that was to go up all the weights culminating in being HW World champ. I don't think that he was ever as invincible again. Again, when do you think his prime was?
And I BELIEVE Prime Hatton beats Prime Khan.COLOR]

Don't know what you've done with the quotes there.

Calzaghes real prime was early 2000's. He had the stamina to fight the way he did later in his career but he also actually punched with authority before his hand problems. Ask Eubank how hard he could hit. He was very good and adapted to not only stay competitive but dominant this is why Hopkins priced himself out of a match he had agreed to back in 2003.

Yeah, I'm not the most gifted when it comes to techy stuff, fucked up those colours and quotes.
I hear what you're saying about JC before his hand problems, but I actually think that BECAUSE of his hand problems, it made him a more rounded , better boxer. He got better as a boxer as his career went on.

[No Contest]

I believe...one day the heavyweight division will be interesting again. (Klitschko has to retire sometime)
I believe Pac was juicing during his rise to fame.
I believe Mayweather's ego will never be beat, his ego is GOAT ego.
I believe Richard Steele would have let the fight continue if the roles were reversed in the JCC/Taylor fight.

[fan johnny]

Prime Ricky Hatton beats Prime Amir Khan.

Hatton would have had a chance against Pacquiao if he stayed with Graham.

[Dark Lord Al]

Prime Ricky Hatton beats Prime Amir Khan.

Hatton would have had a chance against Pacquiao if he stayed with Graham.

Yes I agree , if he stayed with Billy he would have had no chance , as opposed to No chance what so ever.

[Bill Paxtom]

Thad Spencer would have beaten Cassius Clay in 1967, if they fought in the West Coast.

[Master]

Dempsey loaded his gloves against Willard and wanted to defend his title against Black fighters.

Liston was legitimately hurt by Ali in the rematch.

Ray Leonard messed up his eye against Hearns and vowed never to fight for legacy again but money.

If Cus and Jacobs stayed alive Tyson would have become the greatest heavyweight ever.

Herol Graham would have beaten Eubanks, Watson and Benn in the same night.
Gatti’s wife murdered him.

Khan is scared to fight Kell Brooks because of his weak chin.

Wlad thinks it is Christmas because he has a hot wife and a crap division.