SugarJ's World Boxing Rankings

**Master** · 05-20-2015 10:48 PM

Originally Posted by Lineal

Originally Posted by Master

15 months is better than 18 months so I assume Ward can be dropped from light heavy because he never should have been champ there.

Ward will remain Champion at 175. The update came into effect on 20 May 2015, before that a champion was given 18 months to schedule a fight. Ward had scheduled his fight with Smith before 17 May 2015 so was within the time frame.

Ward beat the previous Champion under the weight limit, there is no minimum weight a fighter must weigh in at; so if the fight is under the weight division limit then the title is on the line.

Dawson was not at his championship weight so his title should not be on the line. Stevenson took it from him and is the rightful owner.

**Lineal** · 05-21-2015 08:56 AM

Here's a few examples from history:

4/24/31- World Lightweight and World Junior Welterweight Titles- World Lightweight Champion Tony Canzoneri/World Junior Welterweight Champion Jackie "Kid" Berg- Limit- 135; Canzoneri weighed in at 132; Berg at 134 1/4; Winner- Canzoneri KO-3

9/10/31- World Lightweight and World Junior welterweight Titles- Champion Tony Canzoneri/Challenger Jackie "Kid" Berg- Limit- 135; (weights not available); Winner- Canzoneri UD 15

11/20/31- World Lightweight and World Junior Welterweight Titles- Champion Tony Canzoneri/Challenger Kid Chocolate- Limit- *135; (weights not available); Winner- Canzoneri SD 15 (*- Note: Had Canzoneri made the 130-pound limit, which he didn't, he would have been awarded Kid Chocolate's World Junior Lightweight title. That would have made Canzoneri, a former World Featherweight champion, boxing's first four-divisional champion.)

6/23/33- World Lightweight and World Junior Welterweight Titles- Champion Tony Canzoneri/Challenger Barney Ross- Limit- 135; Canzoneri weighed in at 133 1/2; Ross at 134 3/4; Winner- Ross MD 10

9/12/33- World Lightweight and World Junior Welterweight Titles- Champion Barney Ross/Challenger Tony Canzoneri- Limit- 135; Ross weighed in at 135; Canzoneri at 133 1/2; Winner- Ross SD 15

3/16/39- World Lightweight and World Welterweight Titles- Champion Henry Armstrong/Challenger Lew Feldman- Limit- 135; Armstrong weighed in at 135; Feldman at 134; Winner- Armstrong KO-1

An interesting fact, Armstrong should have lost the lightweight and welterweight championships to Lou Ambers in August 1939, both weighed in under 135. The officiating was horrible but we have to respect the official decision even if we don't agree with it.

My policy is pretty clear, if a champion fights under his championship weight then the title is on the line. When you start picking and choosing and muddying the waters it becomes no better than the alphabet boys. Or you get situations like Judah or Peterson holding belts they should have lost.

**Master** · 05-21-2015 10:41 PM

All examples in 1930's? Coincidence?

**Lineal** · 05-22-2015 07:43 AM

No coincidence, it's just not that common. You can add in Leonard/ LaLonde, Mayweather/ Maidana both fights and now Mayweather/ Pacquiao.

You have to have two champions from different divisions willing to face each other, with the higher weight holder willing to weigh under the lighter division limit. Normally a fighter wants every advantage possible so dual weight championship fights are rare.

Those examples were to show that even though Dawson was not at his championship weight his title was on the line.

Also the Light-heavy linage is pretty messy but you could make a case that it leads back to Ward.

Michalczewski-Gonzalez-Erdei-Grachev-Rodriguez-Ward.

I consider Ward to rightful Light-Heavyweight Champion.