American confederate flag

[walrus]

Yes, you also defend the Nazi flag. Thank God for Winston.

[Gandalf]

Not at all. I am defending the right to freedom of speech which is something you should be into. I do not like flags of any sort. Some are simply more tolerable than others. Silly things really.

[El Kabong]

It's gotten ridiculous. I just read they took reruns of Dukes of Hazzard off the TV because of the General Lee. What a fucking joke.

Hogan's Heroes is still running even though it has Nazis and Swastikas everywhere.

Coexist bumper stickers piss me off...but somehow some way I cope without murdering anyone

[SlimTrae]

I would normally agree with you as a matter of principle, but what if you were Jewish and your neighbour insisted on flying a Nazi swastika flag on a huge pole that you could see from your house?

Or if you were black, ditto with a National Front or KKK flag or something?

These things are not easy to make blanket statements about ......

The what if factor....

then would have no probable end.


What if a Japanese had a sign in their front window stating :Chinese are the sick men of Asia, right next door to one?

What if someone decided to place a bumper sticker on their car like: Jewish ashtray on board

Or a bumper sticker that asked: What do you call a nigger in a tree with a briefcase? Branch manager
With a picture of a monkey hanging on to a branch with one hand & a briefcase with the other.

President Bush & Obama both have had effigy of them burned...right here in America- by voters at that. Isn't that hateful? I can't stand what Bush Jr did to America- but to burn a likeness of him?
Not in my heart.

Where do we draw the line? flags, mementos, symbols can offend anyone for any reason be it racial, social, ethnic, gender, age.

Flags to the best of my ability have never caused a war, never caused death. The confederate flag or a Nazi swastika has no power. -Take them away and hateful people will still exist.

Why stoke the fires of hate needlessly, though? All in the name of freedom of speech? That's what's wrong with society. We take these damn proclamations literally and take the thinking away from the lawmakers. What? So-and-so is flying an old Nazi swastika flag in his backyard in a Jewish neighborhood, in an obvious attempt to provoke people and continue promoting hate? Well... let's just drop the ol' Constitutional 1st Amendment bag over it and everything will be fine. Next case.

Personally... I respect what those great men wrote back in the day... like the 1st and 2nd Amendments to the Constitution. In both cases, they were sorely needed. But society today uses those as a crutch to avoid tackling problems head on. Let's just quote these 200-year old documents and go on about our day... thank you very much.

Everybody and their brother can distinguish between someone expressing him/herself freely about politics, the government, religion, the economy, and other controversial issues........ and someone who is spewing hate for the sake of hate. The KKK, Neo-Nazis, skinheads, black militant groups.... etc, etc. Why continue to pretend that what they do is ok?? Is it a little more trouble to split hairs and decide who has freedom of expression and who doesn't? Damn right it is. That's why God gave people brains. A chimpanzee could quote and parrot old documents that may or may not be applicable to these times.

Well said. I'm not defending ones right to act a fool or stoke the flames. Just trying to separate the symbols of hatred from the people who will hate regardless.

Again, well said: I concur.

[SlimTrae]

I do not like flags of any sort. Some are simply more tolerable than others. Silly things really.

Unless it's flag with a big giant vagina on it.

Then I guess some would banter how the cootchie is portrayed. If its a hairy pussy --it must be an un-hygenical pussy, or a bald pussy, then must be a child molester's choice.

[Kirkland Laing]

Kirkland, I'm not debating you. Slaves of the Confederacy were freed in 1863 under the Emancipation Proclamation...the war continued on for 2 more years. 2 more years where border states STILL had slavery. Again, this isn't a debate this is a fucking history lesson you twat.

More isolated geographically, Texas was not a battleground, and thus its slaves were not affected by the Emancipation Proclamation unless they escaped.[6] Planters and other slaveholders had migrated into Texas from eastern states to escape the fighting, and many brought their slaves with them, increasing by the thousands the number of slaves in the state at the end of the Civil War.[7]
By 1865, there were an estimated 250,000 slaves in Texas.[7] As news of end of the war moved slowly, it did not reach Texas until May 1865, and the Army of the Trans-Mississippi did not surrender until June 2.[7] On June 18, 1865, Union General Gordon Granger arrived at Galveston Island with 2,000 federal troops to occupy Texas on behalf of the federal government.[6] On June 19, standing on the balcony of Galveston's Ashton Villa, Granger read aloud the contents of "General Order No. 3", announcing the total emancipation of slaves:

The people of Texas are informed that, in accordance with a proclamation from the Executive of the United States, all slaves are free. This involves an absolute equality of personal rights and rights of property between former masters and slaves, and the connection heretofore existing between them becomes that between employer and hired labor. The freedmen are advised to remain quietly at their present homes and work for wages. They are informed that they will not be allowed to collect at military posts and that they will not be supported in idleness either there or elsewhere.[8]

Emancipation Day celebration in Richmond, Virginia in 1905


Former slaves in Galveston rejoiced in the streets after the announcement, although in the years afterward many struggled to work through the changes against resistance of whites. But, the following year, freedmen organized the first of what became annual celebrations of Juneteenth in Texas.[8] Barred in some cities from using public parks because of state-sponsored segregation of facilities, across parts of Texas, freed people pooled their funds to purchase land to hold their celebrations, such as Houston's Emancipation Park, Mexia's Booker T. Washington Park, and Emancipation Park in Austin.[7][8]


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juneteenth

[Beanz]

If my neighbour were a Nazi I would much rather he flew a swastika so that I knew who he and his friends were. Give them enough rope and all that. The trouble is that most of those who are intent on being offensive and parading how outrageous and free they are by flaunting conventions are often the same people who whine like pussys when you confront them. Trying to ban them is the attention they want. Feeble cunts.

[Gandalf]

The Nazi flag is vile, but the more I learn I tend to find many flags conjure up similar connotations. Maybe the people wanting these flags are associating with different things. For instance, Beanz, if you wave a Union Jack it will likely be for positive reasons whilst I am seeing monarchy, occupation and war. In that sense we are both right based on what we perceive. I just struggle to get enraged on a topic like this and think US media and politics has once again gone slightly mad.

[walrus]

I don't have much positive to say about the Nazis but they did have snappy uniforms.

[Beanz]

The Nazi flag is vile, but the more I learn I tend to find many flags conjure up similar connotations. Maybe the people wanting these flags are associating with different things. For instance, Beanz, if you wave a Union Jack it will likely be for positive reasons whilst I am seeing monarchy, occupation and war. In that sense we are both right based on what we perceive. I just struggle to get enraged on a topic like this and think US media and politics has once again gone slightly mad.

Not at all. Firstly you are assuming I am the type of person to be waving a Union Jack about. Not being ashamed of being English and being blindly patriotic, just like the Union Jack and the Swastika, are in no way interchangeable.

[Master]

I don't have much positive to say about the Nazis but they did have snappy uniforms.

The Hitler mustache never really came into fashion. I think he may have killed Charlie Chaplins career.

[Gandalf]

The Nazi flag is vile, but the more I learn I tend to find many flags conjure up similar connotations. Maybe the people wanting these flags are associating with different things. For instance, Beanz, if you wave a Union Jack it will likely be for positive reasons whilst I am seeing monarchy, occupation and war. In that sense we are both right based on what we perceive. I just struggle to get enraged on a topic like this and think US media and politics has once again gone slightly mad.

Not at all. Firstly you are assuming I am the type of person to be waving a Union Jack about. Not being ashamed of being English and being blindly patriotic, just like the Union Jack and the Swastika, are in no way interchangeable.

Back on topic though, a flag is still just a flag. I don't understand why it would upset people or have people wanting them banned. It is a very PC attitude to be having or even somewhat Nazi too! And I am not saying that is you, so don't get angry. That is more Master. Pretty hardcore. Not that he is a Nazi or anything like that.

[Master]

For the record I am off the hardcore

[El Kabong]

I don't have much positive to say about the Nazis but they did have snappy uniforms.

Hugo Boss designed them.

Brooks Brothers designed Teddy Roosevelt's uniform for the Spanish American War.

[Beanz]

The Nazi flag is vile, but the more I learn I tend to find many flags conjure up similar connotations. Maybe the people wanting these flags are associating with different things. For instance, Beanz, if you wave a Union Jack it will likely be for positive reasons whilst I am seeing monarchy, occupation and war. In that sense we are both right based on what we perceive. I just struggle to get enraged on a topic like this and think US media and politics has once again gone slightly mad.

Not at all. Firstly you are assuming I am the type of person to be waving a Union Jack about. Not being ashamed of being English and being blindly patriotic, just like the Union Jack and the Swastika, are in no way interchangeable.

Back on topic though, a flag is still just a flag. I don't understand why it would upset people or have people wanting them banned. It is a very PC attitude to be having or even somewhat Nazi too! And I am not saying that is you, so don't get angry. That is more Master. Pretty hardcore. Not that he is a Nazi or anything like that.

Again I am not even remotely angry Jesus it's hard work having to climb a slope before people can even take a post as coming from a flat place.

So Back on topic. I agree it is a PC attitude to want to ban a flag but if you can not understand why it may upset people then that is simply because you have not been directly affected. If members of you own family had been killed by Nazi's, which is the case for many European Jews, than of course you would be upset. But again the Union Jack for all the behaviour under colonialism, is not a simple equivalent flag as the swastika. You can only argue that if you ignore huge historical facts, the same thing you are blaming blindly patriotic people of doing.

So while everybody should have the right to fly whatever flag they want they can not then be surprised if people treat them differently or draw what may even be false conclusions from this. To argue for free speech and then throw your toys out of the pram and insist any challenge or disagreement resulting from that is more important than the expression itself, is far more dangerous than any perceived PC like behavior.

It's a stupid argument. The oft repeated idea that people do not have the right to be offended, and if they do they must be ultra PC sheep or bed wetting liberals. It just reveals a pomposity and arrogance from the person insisting on the right to do so. It is tantamount to saying "My argument has no merit and so I will accuse you of being PC because that is my get out of jail card". It is as though treating people with respect and not being mysogonistic or racist or homophobic or ignorant was a much missed era. Rose tinted glasses where people pretend calling a black person a coon or nigger, or calling any Asian a Paki, or Gay people fagots, or Sikh's or arabs ragheads is supposedly the same as calling a spade a spade.

"Oh , I am not PC myself I call a spade a spade" as though we are all supposed to marvel at their rebelliousness and intransigence, unwilling as they are to leave the comfort of the stone age. That is real wet paper bag stuff. Someone so limp and childlike that they think not only is it clever to use terms that are stupid and offensive, but then to use the exact same argument that real sufferers of politically correct syndrome employ to try and shut down the debate.

And am not angry or addressing you. You dumb ass korean cracker