The term "PC" should be renamed

[TitoFan]

If you're comparing the Nazi flag to the country flags of both Japan and the U.S....... maybe we really shouldn't be having this conversation.

That is the problem with the PC crowd. They just want to shut down the discussion. What distinguished imperial Japan from Nazi Germany? I see a lot of obvious similarities. Can you honestly not see them? They were war time allies occupying nations and carrying out genocide. Yet one flag is evil and the other is just dandy.

Last time I checked, Japan was still a country and as such has its own flag. Germany ALSO has its own country flag, and it looks nothing like the Nazi flag. Keep reaching, though.

[Gandalf]

If you're comparing the Nazi flag to the country flags of both Japan and the U.S....... maybe we really shouldn't be having this conversation.

That is the problem with the PC crowd. They just want to shut down the discussion. What distinguished imperial Japan from Nazi Germany? I see a lot of obvious similarities. Can you honestly not see them? They were war time allies occupying nations and carrying out genocide. Yet one flag is evil and the other is just dandy.

Last time I checked, Japan was still a country and as such has its own flag. Germany ALSO has its own country flag, and it looks nothing like the Nazi flag. Keep reaching, though.

You say one cannot, for example, compare the Japanese flag and the Nazi flag. I simply question why not and you seem unable or unwilling to answer that question. The PC response is to close down debate by saying, 'we should never talk about it, you are being extreme'. If you think as I do that a flag is just a flag, then surely all flags exist equally as flags. If you think flags have greater meaning as you seem to do, then I am simply asking you what distinguishes the flag of Imperial Japan and that of Nazi era Germany. If the Nazi flag is so bad based on the regime of Nazi Germany, then how can you deflect the flag of Japan when Japan was an equally hideous regime occupying nations, stealing resources, and carrying out genocide? I think it is a valid observation and yet the flag of Japan isn't being banned or frowned upon.

[TitoFan]

If you're comparing the Nazi flag to the country flags of both Japan and the U.S....... maybe we really shouldn't be having this conversation.

That is the problem with the PC crowd. They just want to shut down the discussion. What distinguished imperial Japan from Nazi Germany? I see a lot of obvious similarities. Can you honestly not see them? They were war time allies occupying nations and carrying out genocide. Yet one flag is evil and the other is just dandy.

Last time I checked, Japan was still a country and as such has its own flag. Germany ALSO has its own country flag, and it looks nothing like the Nazi flag. Keep reaching, though.

You say one cannot, for example, compare the Japanese flag and the Nazi flag. I simply question why not and you seem unable or unwilling to answer that question. The PC response is to close down debate by saying, 'we should never talk about it, you are being extreme'. If you think as I do that a flag is just a flag, then surely all flags exist equally as flags. If you think flags have greater meaning as you seem to do, then I am simply asking you what distinguishes the flag of Imperial Japan and that of Nazi era Germany. If the Nazi flag is so bad based on the regime of Nazi Germany, then how can you deflect the flag of Japan when Japan was an equally hideous regime occupying nations, stealing resources, and carrying out genocide? I think it is a valid observation and yet the flag of Japan isn't being banned or frowned upon.

(patiently)

I answered your question, Miles. I told you Japan's flag is its country flag, just like Germany has its own country flag. The Nazi flag is not Germany's country flag. It has no use... therefore it is not needed as anything other than an instrument of provocation against other human beings. Even you should be able to grasp that simple concept.

[Gandalf]

It doesn't make much sense really. You say that an offensive flag is not okay, but then you say the Japanese flag is okay. How about saying that to victims of genocide in China, or people who have been occupied? Or the 'comfort' women of this country that still have a hard time being understood by the Japanese government? How can the Japanese flag not be equally as offensive to these people as the Nazi flag is to a Jew? How? Did the Nazi's all die in the war and the new flag erased the past? It was the same German people. The same Japanese people.

I reconcile that with the view that a flag is just a flag. However, you seem to be ascribing different rules to different flags. Okay, maybe Japan changed, but what about flags of occupation today? How would an Iraqi feel about a British flag? Not similar to the Nazi flag and the Japan flag? I'm not having a go, but if you don't want to offend you would have to ban a bloody lot of flags and there would be a lot less good comedy!

[Beanz]

I don't think you should ban anything, but if you can not see the difference between a flag that the German people themselves do not want to be associated with, and a flag that represents a country, then you are not really interested in having a debate.

[Beanz]

They twist language so that even dissent becomes terrorism, yet government creates terrorism!


So now that this is understood then perhaps some can see that many of those who turn simply disagreement or the ability to be offended into an automatic assumption that the person who voices this dissent, is being politically correct, are just as guilty of twisting language themsleves. Behind a keyboard people get a sense of immortality and invulnerability in which to admit a flaw in ones argument, a false supposition, or a error of judgement is seen as a weakness. I am as guilty of it as anybody else and it can soon become a war of egos. This though is a forum about boxing and martial arts, with some non boxing boards provided courtesy of the Guv up there behind the curtain twiddling his golden locks and scratching his goaty beard. It is not our own personal blog or website and so common courtesy dictates that restraint must sometimes be used. There has been a huge amount of leeway and freedom shown and though personal insults amongst the Brits are sometime missed by those not living here, seem to have been there since day one. It's banter, what blokes do.

That said the general public who end up here should not be alienated by huge sweeping generalisations and stuff that is offensive for the sake of it. There is a time and a place.


Right now you may throw a stool through the window and let the punch ups resume

[Gandalf]

That was a very good quote. Surely I don't need to break it down for you.

[Beanz]

It doesn't have to serve a useful purpose. We don't have the first ammendment here.
As a Jew who has family members killed in the holocaust there is no need to give me an allegorical story. I still support the right for people to be offensive. Just don't be surprised when that offense becomes intimidation that I will fight back and good people who know what that feels like join in and help. When fascists flying the Nazi flag want to burn the Talmud then I am not going to fuel that fire by making them feel that they are being persecuted and that I am the one trying to censor other people.

[TitoFan]

I'll choose to go against the grain and popular opinion here and continue to believe people should be held accountable for behavior that is solely meant to be offensive and provocative. We as human beings (some, of course) have shown on many occasions that we're incapable of behavior that is acceptable to society. Why, then, the need to accommodate these assholes? No. At some point the buck stops here, as they say, and let the chips fall where they may.

[Beanz]

Because people change and we all in the West should have the right to be asshole. When Fascists March against something as laughable as the Jewification of Britain and then ignorantly co-opt something that for many of them would have been abhorrent in the Palestinian flag, then it is good that they get to parade their ignorance. Isreal is a secular state, and there are many Jews in Britain who are right at the forefront in fighting for the rights of Palestinians. Many of the Fascists grandparents fought the German Nazis as British soldiers, so they don't really have a patriotic leg to stand on.