Is Wladimir Klitschko a "Warrior" like Holyfield/Frazier/Marciano?

[El Kabong]

Well he doesn't really have to be does he? His talent and technique keep him out of the battles those guys were in and those kinds of battles can really shorten a career.

What does it matter if he goes to war or not when he wins all the time? I just don't see the point of knit picking how Wlad fights, the point is to WIN and Wlad puts a check mark beside that in his fights....it's boxing, not rock'em sock'em robots, there's skill involved here.

[SlimTrae]

Well he doesn't really have to be does he? His talent and technique keep him out of the battles those guys were in and those kinds of battles can really shorten a career.

What does it matter if he goes to war or not when he wins all the time? I just don't see the point of knit picking how Wlad fights, the point is to WIN and Wlad puts a check mark beside that in his fights....it's boxing, not rock'em sock'em robots, there's skill involved here.

Technically, you are right.

But he stands to retire like Floyd: someone who can be called a great boxer, but not a great fighter.

It's not about fighting till one gets brain damage, it's about having a legacy where fans can reminisce on his career with great stories to tell.

Not reminiscing on his statistics.

[SlimTrae]

Oops didn't answer the question: NO.

[SlimTrae]

Fold like a Wal-Mart lawn chair on a windy day.

[Hulk]

Well he doesn't really have to be does he? His talent and technique keep him out of the battles those guys were in and those kinds of battles can really shorten a career.

What does it matter if he goes to war or not when he wins all the time? I just don't see the point of knit picking how Wlad fights, the point is to WIN and Wlad puts a check mark beside that in his fights....it's boxing, not rock'em sock'em robots, there's skill involved here.

Technically, you are right.

But he stands to retire like Floyd: someone who can be called a great boxer, but not a great fighter.

It's not about fighting till one gets brain damage, it's about having a legacy where fans can reminisce on his career with great stories to tell.

Not reminiscing on his statistics.

Excellent post.

I've come to begrudgingly appreciate Wlad for the being the best for so long and for carrying himself with such class and dignity.

He is far from a thrilling fighter though. He and Haye didn't exactly tear the house down. 60-70% of that was Haye, but Wlad shares some blame too. That could have been his signature fight.

[ross]

Well he doesn't really have to be does he? His talent and technique keep him out of the battles those guys were in and those kinds of battles can really shorten a career.

What does it matter if he goes to war or not when he wins all the time? I just don't see the point of knit picking how Wlad fights, the point is to WIN and Wlad puts a check mark beside that in his fights....it's boxing, not rock'em sock'em robots, there's skill involved here.

Technically, you are right.

But he stands to retire like Floyd: someone who can be called a great boxer, but not a great fighter.

It's not about fighting till one gets brain damage, it's about having a legacy where fans can reminisce on his career with great stories to tell.

Not reminiscing on his statistics.

Excellent post.

I've come to begrudgingly appreciate Wlad for the being the best for so long and for carrying himself with such class and dignity.

He is far from a thrilling fighter though. He and Haye didn't exactly tear the house down. 60-70% of that was Haye, but Wlad shares some blame too. That could have been his signature fight.

I think Wlad is getting credit for his brothers work as well when it comes to how long hes now regarded as being the best. Vitali only retired in December 2013 thats less than 2 years that Wlad has been the best.

[beenKOed]

Well he doesn't really have to be does he? His talent and technique keep him out of the battles those guys were in and those kinds of battles can really shorten a career.

What does it matter if he goes to war or not when he wins all the time? I just don't see the point of knit picking how Wlad fights, the point is to WIN and Wlad puts a check mark beside that in his fights....it's boxing, not rock'em sock'em robots, there's skill involved here.

Technically, you are right.

But he stands to retire like Floyd: someone who can be called a great boxer, but not a great fighter.

It's not about fighting till one gets brain damage, it's about having a legacy where fans can reminisce on his career with great stories to tell.

Not reminiscing on his statistics.

Can't disagree with you more! Boxers fight with what they have; intelligence, who they are inside, and the way they are trained. Many of them have a natural inclination to get right to it and bang away, most of them are inclined to hit and not be hit, some do both, and some don't want to be hit at all.
None of them are under any obligation to expose themselves to brain damage to keep the fans happy and reminiscing about the fights they've seen!
When your wife, lady friend, mother, or smart phone calls you at work to remind you of a doctor's appointment, do you think, "No way, cancel that damn thing. I want my co-workers, the boss, the stockholders, and my family to reminisce about the way I died on the f*cking job!" Piss on being a warrior, the race you want to win is outliving your enemies!
Marciano and Frazier would probably say they wish they could have fought the way Wald fights. One thing is sure, their careers would have been longer and easier.
I love a slug fest as much as the next person, but I'll be winching through the whole thing and absolutely not thinking this is the way boxing should be!

[erics44]

is he fuck

his style is the least "warrior" like of all champions in history, probably

theres been a few likenings to floyd in this thread

floyd is by no means an entertaining fighter but is is levels above wlad on entertainment value

wlads style is based on holding, something he has only been allowed to get away with because of the money he generates, its just not very interesting

[J_Undisputed]

I'm not a big fan of klitchsko (only because i feel like someone of his physical specimen and stature should be knocking guys out after they're mentally defeated, instead of running out the clock. It kind of comes with the gladiator mentality... so my opinion him tends to waiver.

At the same time I'll wait for one of his opponents to be in shape, with a plan to use angles and feints to nullify his jab and throw counters over the top and keep working over 12 full rounds, using combination punching and working on the inside before and while they are being clinched before I officially fault the guy for spoiling. Most of his opponent half @$$ it and not giving them the best chance to win. That not his fault for showing up in shape with a trainer, a game plan that uses his reach and size. First good opponent in a while to get close to that was Jennings and i was a little disappointed with the clinching but he also did the smart thing and got to jennings while he was still a little green.

I wont compare him to floyd because at least he's humble, and not trying to win the fights before he gets into the ring. Also he's willing to step out of his backyard to fight.

[SlimTrae]

Well he doesn't really have to be does he? His talent and technique keep him out of the battles those guys were in and those kinds of battles can really shorten a career.

What does it matter if he goes to war or not when he wins all the time? I just don't see the point of knit picking how Wlad fights, the point is to WIN and Wlad puts a check mark beside that in his fights....it's boxing, not rock'em sock'em robots, there's skill involved here.

Technically, you are right.

But he stands to retire like Floyd: someone who can be called a great boxer, but not a great fighter.

It's not about fighting till one gets brain damage, it's about having a legacy where fans can reminisce on his career with great stories to tell.

Not reminiscing on his statistics.

Can't disagree with you more! Boxers fight with what they have; intelligence, who they are inside, and the way they are trained. Many of them have a natural inclination to get right to it and bang away, most of them are inclined to hit and not be hit, some do both, and some don't want to be hit at all.
None of them are under any obligation to expose themselves to brain damage to keep the fans happy and reminiscing about the fights they've seen!
When your wife, lady friend, mother, or smart phone calls you at work to remind you of a doctor's appointment, do you think, "No way, cancel that damn thing. I want my co-workers, the boss, the stockholders, and my family to reminisce about the way I died on the f*cking job!" Piss on being a warrior, the race you want to win is outliving your enemies!
Marciano and Frazier would probably say they wish they could have fought the way Wald fights. One thing is sure, their careers would have been longer and easier.
I love a slug fest as much as the next person, but I'll be winching through the whole thing and absolutely not thinking this is the way boxing should be!

lol, I can't disagree with you enough (on this topic) as well.
But it's all good.

I agree with your take on boxers. But we have also concluded there are those called boxer-Punchers which aren't brawlers.


IMO Wlad doesn't fight because he wants to be smart in the ring. It's not his makeup. Not in him.

Ray Leonard is a good example of aboxer-puncher. knew how to box, but when he got his skills compromised, he knew how to bang. So.... Does he slurr today? Nope.

What about Julio Cesar Chavez? While I don't speak Spanish, I know stuttering and slurring when it's done.
JCC wasn't a club fighter, right? He was an inside banger who used subtle shit on the inside. Only a warrior could or would dare to fight in close. Too many risks. Remember how he took away Edwin Rosario offense, using his elbow and forearms to block then counter in close quarters.

Hopkins another boxer who can minimize the punches he takes by clinching just like Wlad or Lennox. All 3 over use the clinch. However, Lennox and Hop got junk yard dog inside them when needed. Neither guy today is punch drunk.

Pernell Whitaker master boxer who didn't rely on clinching to ...not get hit. It takes a brave hombre to stand in front of their foe and just make them miss.

I agree that a fighter shouldn't take punishment for the sake of it. But that isn't my argument. Mines Is in agreement with Brock. Wlad doesn't have it in him to fight.

Some guys like Arturro Gatti throw caution to the wind blow for blow toe to toe like Israel Vazquez vs Marquez. Or Provodnikov vs MathysseSome boxers will fight with a cautious approach

Some boxers live to entertain like Emanuel Augustus, so I disagree with you that (all) boxers should try to hit and not get hit.
I do agree with you that all boxers should use whatever skills, gifts they have.

That means whenever a boxer has their skill compromised, and claim clinching is all they got?
Cool. But don't call that a trait of a warrior anymore than to just stand and trade.
That's a crazy dude lol

Wlad again is a brave person for choosing a hurt game. But that doesn't make him a warrior. He ain't nothing close to a warrior.

Wlad clinches out of reflex, not as a pre determined act.

[brocktonblockbust]

Wlad clinches out of reflex.

BANG ON RIGHT THERE.

it ain't his strategy. It just happens out of fear and a lil help from some octopus arms. Mwa ha ho ho ho

[SlimTrae]

@ kabong, beenkod

Great posts and top notch boxing insight. I think the difference here is that you both point out that Wlad shouldn't have to bang to win, if he can box and win.

Your arguments are solid.

2 final comments from me
1.boxers of old didn't practice hit and not get hit. 1900-1960 bar a few like Benny Leonard,

But the rest like uh..Jack Dempsey to Armstrong, Willie pep , fritzie zivac, Rocky grazing, Martciano....
It wasn't until clay aka Ali came along that the phrase took on meaning.
Previously it was called barbarism.

2. Even Floyd has fights with ndou, Hernandez, Corrales, Corley where he stood toe to toe. Floyd IMO fights safety first as a game plan. When he clinches; it's a choice he makes. Clinch, become mobile, or...use that somewhat illegal elbow to defend.
Wlad has one means to defend in the trenches: clinch. That imo isn't by choice. That big muthatrucka clinches to keep a fight from actually happening.

[Britkid]

I am with El Kabong here. The idea of pro boxing is surely to make as much money as you can, whilst having as little damage as possible happen to you?!

Being called a warrior by a few thousand fans on the Internet, does not in itself pay the bills.

I am personally not the biggest fan of either brother, but I will say this:

Even in this relatively weak era, to be generally considered one of the two best Heavyweights for over a decade, takes a mental strength that only the likes of Holyfield, Frazier and Marciano can relate to.

[ross]

Now understand this...

Wlad will get beaten on the 28th of November.

The only thing he can do to avoid getting beaten isnt holding, its pulling out again.

[El Kabong]

The fans love it when you get a Corrales-Castillo I kind of fight, or a Gatti-Ward, or a Bowe-Holyfield, or a Brewster-Liakhovich kind of war....the FANS love it....the fighters I am certain have great respect for each other in battles like that, but it takes so much away from a fighter to have fights like that.

I mentioned Meldrick Taylor before, my God what a talent he was! Greased lightning hands, and good pop with his shots too, but he chose to be a brawler and it cost him, it cost him greatness. Look at Riddick Bowe, fine boxer, had a couple all out wars with Evander Holyfield....his time at the top could have been measured in seconds in 1991 he was on the rise and by 1993 he was finished as "THE MAN" of the division....do you think if he had made better use of his height and reach he would have lasted longer?

There are guys who have no choice but to brawl, the short stocky guys, the heavy handed power punchers, the guys with the amazing chins.....but given the choice to do things an easier way and have more success for longer? I'm certain they'd take that opportunity if they had the chance.


Look at Tommy Morrison, typically a thoughtless banger, a wild haymaker throwing slugger....one of his biggest wins of his career was when he made the decision to BOX George Foreman rather than stand toe to toe against him.