Merry Christmas - happy holidays?

[El Kabong]

Most people in the world are not Christians. They dominate political discourse, so it is quite funny winding them up about their insecurities, particularly because it will not be me who pays the price, but sadly some poor villagers in Syria or Iraq...

1. True
2. False, there are PLENTY of people of different religious affiliations that are involved in politics and a growing number of atheists and agnostics
3. I wonder if it would be as funny if you were talking about winding up someone of a different faith
4. Like there are not Christians in those places and also why would a "War on Christmas" have ANYTHING to do with Iraq or Syria?

1. We agree

2. You cannot be President of the USA without being a 'active' Christian; my Country (the UK) also has an 'active' Christian leader. who recently destroyed in an election his two atheist rivals. There is no place for an atheist in politics in the UK.

3. Yes I wind up all members of all faiths. But at the same time I try to envision a line that I try not to cross, but I admit I probably do every now and again. It is one thing to say 'Happy Holidays!' to my Christian friend who gets really annoyed by such a comment, but it is quite another to say burn their bible.

4. Sorry; but I still see red on the subject despite it being a decade since my then Prime Minister Tony Blair admitted to praying with your then President Bush (Junior), whilst deciding what to do about Iraq in 2002/03. Such comments really make me understand why so many Muslims in Iraq and sadly now Syria think the bombings in their Countries are a 'Modern Crusade'.

1. Good, always happy to find common ground

2. Well all have been Christian but there are several different kinds of Christian no? Hoover & Nixon were Quaker, Andrew Johnson and Abe Lincoln weren't Bible beaters by any stretch of the imagination and were thought to be nonreligious. Grant and Hayes were non-denominational. JFK was Catholic. A couple Presidents were Unitarian, a couple Episcopal, a few Presbyterian, a few Congregationalists, a few Dutch Reformed.

3. Good for you that you know there is a line not to cross. It's a showing of respect and that's admirable.


4. Iraq was getting invaded and it's not because they were brown people, not because they're Muslim people, not because of 9/11 or weapons of mass destruction....they may have been floated up as the reasons but there was something else....oil....maybe though can't say we really rolled around in low cost gas here right after the invasion. Perception is reality though so I guess if people are dumb enough to believe it's a crusade then that is their reality....never been that in my eyes. I just want our soldiers to do their jobs, win, and come home safely.

[Mark TKO]

[Britkid]

4. Iraq was getting invaded and it's not because they were brown people, not because they're Muslim people, not because of 9/11 or weapons of mass destruction....they may have been floated up as the reasons but there was something else....oil....maybe though can't say we really rolled around in low cost gas here right after the invasion. Perception is reality though so I guess if people are dumb enough to believe it's a crusade then that is their reality....never been that in my eyes. I just want our soldiers to do their jobs, win, and come home safely.

I agree it is mainly about oil. But seeing your wedding bombed and family members killed, or seeing the local hospital bombed, with 26 dead; is not going to change some people's mind that this is a Modern Crusade, and it is insult to suggest they are dumb.

The incidents I mention I am almost certain were terrible accidents, but that is small comfort if you are burying your family because of the bombings. And Leaders of Countries praying for guidance on whether or not to attack, and ultimately defying the UN does not help matters either.

The UK has done some terrible things in the past, but you have thought, as at the time Suez was less fifty years previous, that they would not make the same heinous mistake. Sadly though they did, led by the Country that rightly tore us a new arse hole for behaving like we did in Egypt.

[El Kabong]

I don't think it was about oil, I said that's a reason people think we went to war, but I believe it's over something different.

I mean shit the US gets the majority of it's oil from Canada and Mexico....we'd invade one of them if we "really wanted oil"

[Britkid]

I don't think it was about oil, I said that's a reason people think we went to war, but I believe it's over something different.

I mean shit the US gets the majority of it's oil from Canada and Mexico....we'd invade one of them if we "really wanted oil"

What is your take then? Hegemony (a warning to China)? A 'Crusade'? Something else?

[El Kabong]

What is your take then? Hegemony (a warning to China)? A 'Crusade'? Something else?

Why would it be a warning to China? China and Russia care about Iran, not Iraq. It's not a crusade because we're not exporting Christianity there, we're not on a "Convert or Kill" mission.



My best guess is that there was an idea that Iraq was ready to be what Iran was pre-Revolution which is a nice Westernized place with Westernized citizenry who would get groovy on some Capitalism once the boot of Saddam was off their throats and provide a better ally in the region should Israel need help.


But I even have doubts about that, it could just be they got tired of Saddam's shit and wanted to send a message to the rest of the Middle East that the United States is finished taking these terrorist attacks and we're going to fuck your world up without even really trying to just in case Saddam HAD any ideas about doing something stupid.



In the end it only matters if you care about if we accomplished our goals....which shit, I really can't tell much difference other than Iraq is dictator free for the moment.