Dissecting Ali hate

[Bill Paxtom]

Brock is schizophrenic on Ali and Bill is just a hater.

beenKOed is just strange.

Now, now. Hold on there Master.

HATE is a very strong word to use.

Maybe you should use the phrase. ...... "Not A Fan Of"

[Master]

Brock is schizophrenic on Ali and Bill is just a hater.

beenKOed is just strange.

Now, now. Hold on there Master.

HATE is a very strong word to use.

Maybe you should use the phrase. ...... 'Not A Fan Of'.

If you want to shit in Ali's hat or mouth then you hate him.

[Bill Paxtom]

Cassius Clay

Thinking in the Bathroom.

[Master]

Whatever floats your boat Bill. I am not here to judge.

[Bill Paxtom]

Whatever floats your boat Bill. I am not here to judge.

Hold on a Minute.

Master, you've been Shit on before by both family and friends.

Now, those people really don't hate you. Maybe they were just upset at you at the time.

[Master]

Whatever floats your boat Bill. I am not here to judge.

Hold on a Minute.

Master, you've been Shit on before by both family and friends.

Now, those people really don't hate you. Maybe they were just upset at you at the time.

Never have my family are good.

If it has happened to you then I suggest counselling and support.

[brocktonblockbust]

@TitoFan
Here are the reasons I dislike Cassius Clay. Number one he was a disrespectful ass hole to his fellow black peers who are also fighting their way out of poverty like Joe Frazier and George Foreman and poor old Sonny Liston who had a really rough life. It has nothing to do with Rocky Marciano. Nothing at all. Ali was so much larger than Rocky he had about four and a half inches in height and at least 23 pounds in weight, was much faster by several light years in hand speed and threw combinations which Rocky Marciano could not really do at all and was much faster on his feet and had footwork that Rocky Marciano could never have Plus Muhammad Ali had an 80 inch reach perhaps even 82 inches and Rocky Marciano only had a 67 inch reach equal to a welterweight for example. Therefore it would have been extremely extremely extremely difficult and perhaps close to impossible for Marciano to really beat a guy who was so much physically bigger and faster. I have no problems facing those physical physiological facts. None of that makes me hate cashes clay. In fact I don't hate anybody. But I dislike Cassius Clay once again mostly because of his derogatory defamatory cruel mean spirited low down dirty insults and disgraceful remarks to fellow black fighters who at that time in the 1960s were going through quite enough abuse quite enough obstacles quite enough of racism as it was already just trying to function in a society of racist. They were trying to get ahead and have families and work their way out of poverty out of the ghettos of Philadelphia out of the ghettos of Detroit out of the ghettos of Jersey City New Jersey out of the ghettos of Baltimore Maryland and various other ghettos around America and they certainly did not need Cassius Clay who himself was black to be running them down at every turn and using animal-like dehumanizing comparisons to describe their facial or bodily features and to run them down for being illiterate and ignorant and uneducated ....and especially mean was once they started to make a little money like Joe Frazier did to be called an Uncle Tom is beyond excusable.

[Bill Paxtom]

Malcolm X

This is my best and closest friend Cassius. He has promised me that he will
protect me at all times.

He told my Children, that he will protect their Father till the end of time.

[TitoFan]

@TitoFan
Here are the reasons I dislike Cassius Clay. Number one he was a disrespectful ass hole to his fellow black peers who are also fighting their way out of poverty like Joe Frazier and George Foreman and poor old Sonny Liston who had a really rough life. It has nothing to do with Rocky Marciano. Nothing at all. Ali was so much larger than Rocky he had about four and a half inches in height and at least 23 pounds in weight, was much faster by several light years in hand speed and threw combinations which Rocky Marciano could not really do at all and was much faster on his feet and had footwork that Rocky Marciano could never have Plus Muhammad Ali had an 80 inch reach perhaps even 82 inches and Rocky Marciano only had a 67 inch reach equal to a welterweight for example. Therefore it would have been extremely extremely extremely difficult and perhaps close to impossible for Marciano to really beat a guy who was so much physically bigger and faster. I have no problems facing those physical physiological facts. None of that makes me hate cashes clay. In fact I don't hate anybody. But I dislike Cassius Clay once again mostly because of his derogatory defamatory cruel mean spirited low down dirty insults and disgraceful remarks to fellow black fighters who at that time in the 1960s were going through quite enough abuse quite enough obstacles quite enough of racism as it was already just trying to function in a society of racist. They were trying to get ahead and have families and work their way out of poverty out of the ghettos of Philadelphia out of the ghettos of Detroit out of the ghettos of Jersey City New Jersey out of the ghettos of Baltimore Maryland and various other ghettos around America and they certainly did not need Cassius Clay who himself was black to be running them down at every turn and using animal-like dehumanizing comparisons to describe their facial or bodily features and to run them down for being illiterate and ignorant and uneducated ....and especially mean was once they started to make a little money like Joe Frazier did to be called an Uncle Tom is beyond excusable.

Fair enough, Brock. Sounds like you're being serious. But here's the thing. On many occasions you've posted how Marciano would've done this to Ali... how Marciano would've done that to Ali. You've posted how Marciano had a bigger heart... how he'd walk through Ali's punches... how he'd crush Ali's internal organs. TBH, you sound a little bitter that Ali has gotten so much press and adulation over the years, while Marciano, while totally remembered and admired in his own right.... was really overshadowed by Ali who came onto the scene after Marciano. But ok... if you say it's got nothing to do with Marciano, so be it.

But I've heard this "demeaning and insulting of the blacks" reason from both you and Bill, and I think I've finally got to say something about this very subject. And it is as follows:

Ali calling Frazier a gorilla, and ugly, and every other insult he could hurl at him...... IS NOTHING when compared to the ugly prejudice, second-class treatment, harassment, and discrimination that blacks suffered at the hands of the white man in the U.S. of the 50's and 60's. Picking on Ali, a black man himself, for as you put it.... "running them down at every turn" is a bit overly dramatic, and ignores the real prejudice that existed during those times.

It's like when a black man calls another "nigg__" and it's ok. But it's not ok when a white man does it. Why? Intentions. Among blacks, it's almost another greeting, like... "Hey brotha". From a white man, it sounds and is usually meant as an insult.

So when you and Bill (and whoever else) makes a big deal of how Ali mistreated blacks during that time, I have to differ. You're putting the focus in the wrong place. I also don't think Ali needed a speech on how blacks were trying to get ahead in the ghettos of Baltimore and Philadelphia in the 50's and 60's. I'm sure he was well aware of their plight, and could even sympathize with being discriminated against. None of us lived that, so it's really not up to us to say.

[Master]

Magic posting Tito, just magic.

I will not say anything bad to beenKOed or Al, I know where they stand and they have been consistent about it for years.

[brocktonblockbust]

Magic posting Tito, just magic.

I will not say anything bad to beenKOed or Al, I know where they stand and they have been consistent about it for years.

That's right Horatio just say something bad to me and bill.

[brocktonblockbust]

@TitoFan
Here are the reasons I dislike Cassius Clay. Number one he was a disrespectful ass hole to his fellow black peers who are also fighting their way out of poverty like Joe Frazier and George Foreman and poor old Sonny Liston who had a really rough life. It has nothing to do with Rocky Marciano. Nothing at all. Ali was so much larger than Rocky he had about four and a half inches in height and at least 23 pounds in weight, was much faster by several light years in hand speed and threw combinations which Rocky Marciano could not really do at all and was much faster on his feet and had footwork that Rocky Marciano could never have Plus Muhammad Ali had an 80 inch reach perhaps even 82 inches and Rocky Marciano only had a 67 inch reach equal to a welterweight for example. Therefore it would have been extremely extremely extremely difficult and perhaps close to impossible for Marciano to really beat a guy who was so much physically bigger and faster. I have no problems facing those physical physiological facts. None of that makes me hate cashes clay. In fact I don't hate anybody. But I dislike Cassius Clay once again mostly because of his derogatory defamatory cruel mean spirited low down dirty insults and disgraceful remarks to fellow black fighters who at that time in the 1960s were going through quite enough abuse quite enough obstacles quite enough of racism as it was already just trying to function in a society of racist. They were trying to get ahead and have families and work their way out of poverty out of the ghettos of Philadelphia out of the ghettos of Detroit out of the ghettos of Jersey City New Jersey out of the ghettos of Baltimore Maryland and various other ghettos around America and they certainly did not need Cassius Clay who himself was black to be running them down at every turn and using animal-like dehumanizing comparisons to describe their facial or bodily features and to run them down for being illiterate and ignorant and uneducated ....and especially mean was once they started to make a little money like Joe Frazier did to be called an Uncle Tom is beyond excusable.

Fair enough, Brock. Sounds like you're being serious. But here's the thing. On many occasions you've posted how Marciano would've done this to Ali... how Marciano would've done that to Ali. You've posted how Marciano had a bigger heart... how he'd walk through Ali's punches... how he'd crush Ali's internal organs. TBH, you sound a little bitter that Ali has gotten so much press and adulation over the years, while Marciano, while totally remembered and admired in his own right.... was really overshadowed by Ali who came onto the scene after Marciano. But ok... if you say it's got nothing to do with Marciano, so be it.

But I've heard this "demeaning and insulting of the blacks" reason from both you and Bill, and I think I've finally got to say something about this very subject. And it is as follows:

Ali calling Frazier a gorilla, and ugly, and every other insult he could hurl at him...... IS NOTHING when compared to the ugly prejudice, second-class treatment, harassment, and discrimination that blacks suffered at the hands of the white man in the U.S. of the 50's and 60's. Picking on Ali, a black man himself, for as you put it.... "running them down at every turn" is a bit overly dramatic, and ignores the real prejudice that existed during those times.

It's like when a black man calls another "nigg__" and it's ok. But it's not ok when a white man does it. Why? Intentions. Among blacks, it's almost another greeting, like... "Hey brotha". From a white man, it sounds and is usually meant as an insult.

So when you and Bill (and whoever else) makes a big deal of how Ali mistreated blacks during that time, I have to differ. You're putting the focus in the wrong place. I also don't think Ali needed a speech on how blacks were trying to get ahead in the ghettos of Baltimore and Philadelphia in the 50's and 60's. I'm sure he was well aware of their plight, and could even sympathize with being discriminated against. None of us lived that, so it's really not up to us to say.

No mi hermano mio, tu sabes que te quiero mucho pero yo tambien necessito estar NO acuerdo con estos puntos: YOURE putting the focus in the wrong place. The focus is NOT on what the evil whites did to the blacks. We all know that. Anybody who denies that is blind as a bat. The focus is on how and why a black man who championed himself as a spokesperson and do-gooder for black rights would go and defame/insult/hurt the feelings of fellow blacks during that very disturbing racist time of the 60s. That is the focus. Joe Frazier didnt need any EXTRA BULLSHIT from people more than what he was already getting, etc... To say Ali didnt do anywhere NEAR the damage that whites did is a totally separate argument. Of course ali didnt do anywhere near the damage that racist whites did. But who the hell was ever claiming THAT? That is a IMHO silly point to make. The focus here is on Ali and what HE did, not comparing what Ali did to what whites did.!!

As for my Rocco Marcheggiano, I would rout for him everytime he would have fought Ali. And I still say his awkward style would have proven far more challenging to Muhammad than it looks at first glance.

[TitoFan]

No mi hermano mio, tu sabes que te quiero mucho pero yo tambien necessito estar NO acuerdo con estos puntos: YOURE putting the focus in the wrong place. The focus is NOT on what the evil whites did to the blacks. We all know that. Anybody who denies that is blind as a bat. The focus is on how and why a black man who championed himself as a spokesperson and do-gooder for black rights would go and defame/insult/hurt the feelings of fellow blacks during that very disturbing racist time of the 60s. That is the focus. Joe Frazier didnt need any EXTRA BULLSHIT from people more than what he was already getting, etc... To say Ali didnt do anywhere NEAR the damage that whites did is a totally separate argument. Of course ali didnt do anywhere near the damage that racist whites did. But who the hell was ever claiming THAT? That is a IMHO silly point to make. The focus here is on Ali and what HE did, not comparing what Ali did to what whites did.!!

As for my Rocco Marcheggiano, I would rout for him everytime he would have fought Ali. And I still say his awkward style would have proven far more challenging to Muhammad than it looks at first glance.

Here's the thing, my good friend. Ali insulted certain black opponents, most notably Frazier. But he also insulted white opponents as well. And we're talking about boxing opponents. Out of the ring Ali championed his right to equality as a human being. Didn't he have that famous quote about the Viet Cong never calling him "nigger" when all the controversy regarding his refusal to be drafted? People may not have liked him very much.... but he had a very good point. Haters never really sat down to listen to him when he addressed groups away from the glare of the boxing ring. He talked to college kids, and other groups of people, and he had some very useful things to say. I'd venture to say Ali championed the cause of the black people a hell of a lot more than the Fraziers and Foremans ever did. How? He stood up and was loud about racism and prejudice.

[brocktonblockbust]

No mi hermano mio, tu sabes que te quiero mucho pero yo tambien necessito estar NO acuerdo con estos puntos: YOURE putting the focus in the wrong place. The focus is NOT on what the evil whites did to the blacks. We all know that. Anybody who denies that is blind as a bat. The focus is on how and why a black man who championed himself as a spokesperson and do-gooder for black rights would go and defame/insult/hurt the feelings of fellow blacks during that very disturbing racist time of the 60s. That is the focus. Joe Frazier didnt need any EXTRA BULLSHIT from people more than what he was already getting, etc... To say Ali didnt do anywhere NEAR the damage that whites did is a totally separate argument. Of course ali didnt do anywhere near the damage that racist whites did. But who the hell was ever claiming THAT? That is a IMHO silly point to make. The focus here is on Ali and what HE did, not comparing what Ali did to what whites did.!!

As for my Rocco Marcheggiano, I would rout for him everytime he would have fought Ali. And I still say his awkward style would have proven far more challenging to Muhammad than it looks at first glance.

Here's the thing, my good friend. Ali insulted certain black opponents, most notably Frazier. But he also insulted white opponents as well. And we're talking about boxing opponents. Out of the ring Ali championed his right to equality as a human being. Didn't he have that famous quote about the Viet Cong never calling him "nigger" when all the controversy regarding his refusal to be drafted? People may not have liked him very much.... but he had a very good point. Haters never really sat down to listen to him when he addressed groups away from the glare of the boxing ring. He talked to college kids, and other groups of people, and he had some very useful things to say. I'd venture to say Ali championed the cause of the black people a hell of a lot more than the Fraziers and Foremans ever did. How? He stood up and was loud about racism and prejudice.

1. he should have kept his insults to the white boxers only, it wouldnt have effected poor Joe and Floyd and Ernie Terrell and all his brothers he should have been using his fame to comfort and support them, not tear them down..

2. Wish he would have championed Frazier's right to be treated like a decent human being.

3. Who cares about him saying the vietcong never called him "nigger"? What does that have to do with him calling Floyd and Ernie and Joe and George and archie all sorts of horrible hurtful things?

4. Yes on that 4th point I agree with you---he did champion black rights more than Frazier or foreman or Floyd Patterson or ernie Terrell. But he HURT Frazier and Frazier's family irreparably. Frazier actually sent a message to ali that his daughter and sons were being seriously bullied in school in South Philly because all the black kids were echoing ali's words that Joe was an Uncle Tom. They actually had to change schools because of that.

he may have been vocal in front of the microphone (ego, maybe, adoring the spotlight/the limelight? pretty face syndrome?), but on the personal level, where it truly counts, he tore Joe Frazier and others down incessantly for years. Doesnt cut the mustard if you think about it. Frazier gave Ali money when Ali was down and out, so in a way Joe did something for his fellow black brother right there.

Know how Ali thanked him?

[Bill Paxtom]

No mi hermano mio, tu sabes que te quiero mucho pero yo tambien necessito estar NO acuerdo con estos puntos: YOURE putting the focus in the wrong place. The focus is NOT on what the evil whites did to the blacks. We all know that. Anybody who denies that is blind as a bat. The focus is on how and why a black man who championed himself as a spokesperson and do-gooder for black rights would go and defame/insult/hurt the feelings of fellow blacks during that very disturbing racist time of the 60s. That is the focus. Joe Frazier didnt need any EXTRA BULLSHIT from people more than what he was already getting, etc... To say Ali didnt do anywhere NEAR the damage that whites did is a totally separate argument. Of course ali didnt do anywhere near the damage that racist whites did. But who the hell was ever claiming THAT? That is a IMHO silly point to make. The focus here is on Ali and what HE did, not comparing what Ali did to what whites did.!!

As for my Rocco Marcheggiano, I would rout for him everytime he would have fought Ali. And I still say his awkward style would have proven far more challenging to Muhammad than it looks at first glance.

Here's the thing, my good friend. Ali insulted certain black opponents, most notably Frazier. But he also insulted white opponents as well. And we're talking about boxing opponents. Out of the ring Ali championed his right to equality as a human being. Didn't he have that famous quote about the Viet Cong never calling him "nigger" when all the controversy regarding his refusal to be drafted? People may not have liked him very much.... but he had a very good point. Haters never really sat down to listen to him when he addressed groups away from the glare of the boxing ring. He talked to college kids, and other groups of people, and he had some very useful things to say. I'd venture to say Ali championed the cause of the black people a hell of a lot more than the Fraziers and Foremans ever did. How? He stood up and was loud about racism and prejudice.

Correction

I knew quite a few NVA in Vietnam that called Cassius Clay a "NIGGER COWARD'.

Cassius Clay just happened to never hear them say it.

That would be kind of hard when you're hiding behind '3' White Lawyers in luxurious Miami Beach.

El Facto Mundo !!