The 2nd British fighter to win the Ring magazine fighter of the year is.....

[Primo Carnera]

[QUOTE=erics44;1370194]

You can assess the information different to that.

Fury is the first heavyweight to win for 19 years.

Maybe it shows how weak the heavyweight division has been in recent times, or maybe how strong the heavyweight division was in the past, or maybe the heavyweight division is no longer seen as the glamour divison, as it definitely was in the past.

I personally think its as much to do with America having little in the way of world class heavies over recent years. You need americans in their for their networks to throw promotion behind and create that "glamour" again.

I think its because wlad klit was allowed to cheat for so long

had they had have applied the rules to his fights his reign would have been a lot shorter

in fact he may never have won it when he did, he should have been dq'd early in the sam peter fight

maybe then other stars would have emerged

Yes he did hug and hold but if your good enough you shouldnt be allowing him to. Tyson didnt but everyone else did for the past 11 years.

Even Jennings an american fighter fighting in america with the ref not allowing it couldnt do anything and spent too much of the fight being too defensive to win any rounds. Wlad hasnt suddently become a one trick pony just because Fury was massively better than anyone wanted to give him credit for. If the fight had been postponed until February the general opinion would still be that Wlad is too good for everyone.

that's stupid logic

holding and leaning is against the rules

its like saying, he kicked a lot but if you were good enough you shouldn't have allowed him to do it

most HW were smaller than him so it was miles harder for them to stop him doing it than it was for a bigger fella[/QUOTE]


This is exactly the point. Because Fury is bigger than Wlad, the leaning on is going to play into Fury's hands more than Wlad , whereas with smaller guys Wlad faces , it's to his advantage. Also , the reach made a massive difference . Wlad can usually paw his jab out and control the distance , but Fury used his longer reach and good movement to control that. Wlad wasn't prepared to take shots in order to get his own off.
I also think that Wlad (and many other people, Myself definitely included) underestimated Fury and his ability to execute the gameplan. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but if Wlad thought Fury could do as well as he did, there's no way he would've given him a shot. He clearly thought Fury was pretty useless and all talk , but he had the shock of his life. Fair play to Team Fury for that.
Basically , in the rematch, in order to stand any chance, Wlad has to change his mindset of the last 10 years and attack without fear of getting clumped on the way in . I'm not sure at his age, whether he can do that.

[Fenster]

I've always said Wlad shouldn't be rated P4P because he has a massive natural size advantage over most of his opponents.

Think the Fury fight made me right. He was completely lost fighting someone as big as him, that had a bit of skill, who he couldn't physically overpower.

[ross]

I've always said Wlad shouldn't be rated P4P because he has a massive natural size advantage over most of his opponents.

Think the Fury fight made me right. He was completely lost fighting someone as big as him, that had a bit of skill, who he couldn't physically overpower.

Yet before the fight most people said size wasnt a factor, Tyson was getting stopped and quickly and Wlad was better against his bigger opponents.

Wlad is still world class and could still beat Wilder who is also taller and win the WBC but Tyson is too good for everyone right now.

[erics44]

I've always said Wlad shouldn't be rated P4P because he has a massive natural size advantage over most of his opponents.

Think the Fury fight made me right. He was completely lost fighting someone as big as him, that had a bit of skill, who he couldn't physically overpower.

Yet before the fight most people said size wasnt a factor, Tyson was getting stopped and quickly and Wlad was better against his bigger opponents.

Wlad is still world class and could still beat Wilder who is also taller and win the WBC but Tyson is too good for everyone right now.

I thought wlad would win

but wlads biggest weapon is still his holding, much more so than his punching

and I am yet to see wilder in with a first class HW so I cant really say with any assurance who would win that fight, but I think wlad would be very scared to get hit which might be the deciding factor

[Fenster]

I never said size wasn't a factor, of course it was. It could have benefited Wlad fighting someone his own size for all we knew but it certainly did not.

It just showed - as eric keeps saying - without the holding and climbing all over fighters backs and reach advantage and size advantage he was just a big stiff with a pawing jab and occasional right hand.

[ross]

I never said size wasn't a factor, of course it was. It could have benefited Wlad fighting someone his own size for all we knew but it certainly did not.

It just showed - as eric keeps saying - without the holding and climbing all over fighters backs and reach advantage and size advantage he was just a big stiff with a pawing jab and occasional right hand.

Dont forget the left hook!

Most of these revisionist opinions are based on peoples dislike of Fury.

These same people will still have Haye beating Fury

[erics44]

I never said size wasn't a factor, of course it was. It could have benefited Wlad fighting someone his own size for all we knew but it certainly did not.

It just showed - as eric keeps saying - without the holding and climbing all over fighters backs and reach advantage and size advantage he was just a big stiff with a pawing jab and occasional right hand.

Dont forget the left hook!

Most of these revisionist opinions are based on peoples dislike of Fury.

These same people will still have Haye beating Fury

I have no hate for fury at all, I am a fan

I have been saying this about wlad for years

[Fenster]

Hold up, ross. This has nothing to do with Fury. Lots of us have been complaining for years about Wlad's holding/fouling, one-dimensional boring style. Dig up the Povetkin RBR thread, I was asking for him to be DQ'd before the end of the 1st round.

And by the way - You was the one before the fight telling everyone, a million times, how Wlad was overrated and Fury would win easy.

You can't have it both ways. You can't say "this is an easy fight." Then when your man wins say "this was the greatest win in history."

[Primo Carnera]

Dont forget the left hook!

Most of these revisionist opinions are based on peoples dislike of Fury.

These same people will still have Haye beating Fury

Like I said before , most people don't dislike Fury, It's YOU that they dislike.
and you keep mentioning "revisionist" like it's some sort of plague. If I get something wrong, is it better to admit it, learn from that and move forward , or use a pack of excuses and go into denial?
obviously opinion is going to change.
Styles make fights. I happen to think Fury probably beats Wlad in a rematch, and I would fancy him against Wilder. However, there are a few HW's out there that I think could beat him . I might be wrong , but like I've said many times before , time will tell.