Are "migrants" the same as "refugees" the same as...?

[brocktonblockbust]

Sorry but swedes are fucking pussies to allow that shit to go on. What the fuck was all that assault for against the camera crews? Out and out assault.

Swedes are pussies. You need about 10,000 new york city cops. That shit would be cleaned up in 2 weeks tops.

[El Kabong]

[El Kabong]

I'm just going to add this in here as well....



100% of all immigrants legal or illegal should learn the language of the nation they have immigrated to, and so if they move to the United States they should learn English.


Why?


Well for a number of reasons: they'll be able to understand what authority figures are saying so if they are stopped by the police they can understand what the policeman is saying, they can better understand judges/legal issues, they can speak with their neighbors who are citizens, learning the language is part of assimilation, they will be able to communicate with other citizens outside their neighborhoods, it will help them get jobs, it will NOT rob them of their culture, and it is a gracious thing to do. If I was to move to France I'd learn French, if I was to move to Japan I'd learn Japanese.....why can't an immigrant learn English? It's in their best interests to do so if they plan on living here.

[Gandalf]

I disagree with that one. For instance, English teachers, especially in their first few years out here, teach around 30 hours a week and are expected to use their native tongue. Where would they find the energy or time to learn a second language? And why should they? Granted it makes more sense if you are long term and actually manage to get some free time, but statistically you are unlikely to ever master the language. It is probably different for migrant workers who don't have such specialised work, but on that basis I disagree with you there Lyle.

It is in the next generation that the integration can and should be much more complete as the child would be bilingual and typically the child will have a parent who is a local and so will be fully immersed into the culture. I know myself how difficult learning a language is and to be honest I tend to give up half way through each semester as I have too much work to do. I could take a few years out and take a course, but that is a heavy investment to make.

The problem the West has is that most immigrants marry among themselves and you end up with no go areas that are like little countries within countries. There is no cultural integration and the cultures are too different. I agree that something needs to be done about that. I would hate to see that here. But English teachers come and go and the ones that stay are typically those who end up married. They are all educated, checked, and had jobs lined up prior to arriving. Little welfare dependency or any of those things. You cannot expect everyone to speak Korean, but you should know some basics for the sake of politeness.

[El Kabong]

I disagree with that one. For instance, English teachers, especially in their first few years out here, teach around 30 hours a week and are expected to use their native tongue. Where would they find the energy or time to learn a second language? And why should they? Granted it makes more sense if you are long term and actually manage to get some free time, but statistically you are unlikely to ever master the language. It is probably different for migrant workers who don't have such specialised work, but on that basis I disagree with you there Lyle.

It is in the next generation that the integration can and should be much more complete as the child would be bilingual and typically the child will have a parent who is a local and so will be fully immersed into the culture. I know myself how difficult learning a language is and to be honest I tend to give up half way through each semester as I have too much work to do. I could take a few years out and take a course, but that is a heavy investment to make.

The problem the West has is that most immigrants marry among themselves and you end up with no go areas that are like little countries within countries. There is no cultural integration and the cultures are too different. I agree that something needs to be done about that. I would hate to see that here. But English teachers come and go and the ones that stay are typically those who end up married. They are all educated, checked, and had jobs lined up prior to arriving. Little welfare dependency or any of those things. You cannot expect everyone to speak Korean, but you should know some basics for the sake of politeness.

Miles, they must learn the language for their own safety and to ensure that they are getting fair treatment in the land they have migrated to. I for one don't wish to see immigrants illegal or otherwise railroaded by authorities, I don't want their rights infringed....granted illegals should be charged for illegally coming here and if they are violent criminals attempting to escape from their homeland they should be extradited back to face punishment for their previous wrongdoings but I don't think they should be shot on sight or anything (unless caught in the act of doing something worthy of being shot on sight).

The only way to guarantee this is for the migrants to learn the language of the land...it's not saying they have to unlearn their native tongue or completely forget their culture, but they have to practice within the "confines" of the laws of that land....I would expect no different if I was the one immigrating.

[Gandalf]

I disagree with that one. For instance, English teachers, especially in their first few years out here, teach around 30 hours a week and are expected to use their native tongue. Where would they find the energy or time to learn a second language? And why should they? Granted it makes more sense if you are long term and actually manage to get some free time, but statistically you are unlikely to ever master the language. It is probably different for migrant workers who don't have such specialised work, but on that basis I disagree with you there Lyle.

It is in the next generation that the integration can and should be much more complete as the child would be bilingual and typically the child will have a parent who is a local and so will be fully immersed into the culture. I know myself how difficult learning a language is and to be honest I tend to give up half way through each semester as I have too much work to do. I could take a few years out and take a course, but that is a heavy investment to make.

The problem the West has is that most immigrants marry among themselves and you end up with no go areas that are like little countries within countries. There is no cultural integration and the cultures are too different. I agree that something needs to be done about that. I would hate to see that here. But English teachers come and go and the ones that stay are typically those who end up married. They are all educated, checked, and had jobs lined up prior to arriving. Little welfare dependency or any of those things. You cannot expect everyone to speak Korean, but you should know some basics for the sake of politeness.

Miles, they must learn the language for their own safety and to ensure that they are getting fair treatment in the land they have migrated to. I for one don't wish to see immigrants illegal or otherwise railroaded by authorities, I don't want their rights infringed....granted illegals should be charged for illegally coming here and if they are violent criminals attempting to escape from their homeland they should be extradited back to face punishment for their previous wrongdoings but I don't think they should be shot on sight or anything (unless caught in the act of doing something worthy of being shot on sight).

The only way to guarantee this is for the migrants to learn the language of the land...it's not saying they have to unlearn their native tongue or completely forget their culture, but they have to practice within the "confines" of the laws of that land....I would expect no different if I was the one immigrating.

I guess there are different types of migrant. I just don't think I have much in common with people running to a country illegally, marrying within their own, and then expecting several wives to live on welfare and have lots and lots of children. I don't try to force my way on the local culture. If anything I have moved away from my own culture and embraced this way of thinking as it is just better for the self and is far more sensible than back home. Families, education, work, self discipline, these are things the West seems to have left behind with the don't hurt my feelings and worship thy single Mum's brigade. Men are against all this immigration, it is feminists who are the problem.