Are "migrants" the same as "refugees" the same as...?

[Gandalf]

Racist.

[El Kabong]

I disagree with that one. For instance, English teachers, especially in their first few years out here, teach around 30 hours a week and are expected to use their native tongue. Where would they find the energy or time to learn a second language? And why should they? Granted it makes more sense if you are long term and actually manage to get some free time, but statistically you are unlikely to ever master the language. It is probably different for migrant workers who don't have such specialised work, but on that basis I disagree with you there Lyle.

It is in the next generation that the integration can and should be much more complete as the child would be bilingual and typically the child will have a parent who is a local and so will be fully immersed into the culture. I know myself how difficult learning a language is and to be honest I tend to give up half way through each semester as I have too much work to do. I could take a few years out and take a course, but that is a heavy investment to make.

The problem the West has is that most immigrants marry among themselves and you end up with no go areas that are like little countries within countries. There is no cultural integration and the cultures are too different. I agree that something needs to be done about that. I would hate to see that here. But English teachers come and go and the ones that stay are typically those who end up married. They are all educated, checked, and had jobs lined up prior to arriving. Little welfare dependency or any of those things. You cannot expect everyone to speak Korean, but you should know some basics for the sake of politeness.

Miles, they must learn the language for their own safety and to ensure that they are getting fair treatment in the land they have migrated to. I for one don't wish to see immigrants illegal or otherwise railroaded by authorities, I don't want their rights infringed....granted illegals should be charged for illegally coming here and if they are violent criminals attempting to escape from their homeland they should be extradited back to face punishment for their previous wrongdoings but I don't think they should be shot on sight or anything (unless caught in the act of doing something worthy of being shot on sight).

The only way to guarantee this is for the migrants to learn the language of the land...it's not saying they have to unlearn their native tongue or completely forget their culture, but they have to practice within the "confines" of the laws of that land....I would expect no different if I was the one immigrating.

[brocktonblockbust]

Bollocks. When in Rome do as the Romans do.

Also teachers are not migrants who crawled ashore looking for handouts but are professional workers who had to qualify for the position through the embassy of the guest country by submitting various academic credentials.

[El Kabong]

For example....the age of consent in my state (North Carolina) is 16 years old, meanwhile the age of consent in Mexico is 12.

Do you see how assimilation to the culture could be kind of an important thing? Do you see how understanding the language of the land is kind of an important thing? Do you see how following the law of the land is kind of an important thing?

[brocktonblockbust]

Same with uptight Muslims complaining about miniskirts .....in Europe.

[El Kabong]

Same with uptight Muslims complaining about miniskirts .....in Europe.

And so enter the authoritarian politicians parading as they are helping out the little guy by saying "we have to teach them not to rape"....as if the politicians believe that brown people are incapable of responsibility, they are HUMANS they fucking know right from wrong and they should be treated as such! I highly doubt if I break a rule in the nations where these immigrants have fled from that their leaders will say "This poor white devil doesn't understand or comprehend how we live here, we must teach him".....they'd teach me alright, they'd lop my head off of lash the absolute dog shit out of me and THAT would be the lesson I learn and not some patronizing lecture from some bullshit politician!

[Gandalf]

I disagree with that one. For instance, English teachers, especially in their first few years out here, teach around 30 hours a week and are expected to use their native tongue. Where would they find the energy or time to learn a second language? And why should they? Granted it makes more sense if you are long term and actually manage to get some free time, but statistically you are unlikely to ever master the language. It is probably different for migrant workers who don't have such specialised work, but on that basis I disagree with you there Lyle.

It is in the next generation that the integration can and should be much more complete as the child would be bilingual and typically the child will have a parent who is a local and so will be fully immersed into the culture. I know myself how difficult learning a language is and to be honest I tend to give up half way through each semester as I have too much work to do. I could take a few years out and take a course, but that is a heavy investment to make.

The problem the West has is that most immigrants marry among themselves and you end up with no go areas that are like little countries within countries. There is no cultural integration and the cultures are too different. I agree that something needs to be done about that. I would hate to see that here. But English teachers come and go and the ones that stay are typically those who end up married. They are all educated, checked, and had jobs lined up prior to arriving. Little welfare dependency or any of those things. You cannot expect everyone to speak Korean, but you should know some basics for the sake of politeness.

Miles, they must learn the language for their own safety and to ensure that they are getting fair treatment in the land they have migrated to. I for one don't wish to see immigrants illegal or otherwise railroaded by authorities, I don't want their rights infringed....granted illegals should be charged for illegally coming here and if they are violent criminals attempting to escape from their homeland they should be extradited back to face punishment for their previous wrongdoings but I don't think they should be shot on sight or anything (unless caught in the act of doing something worthy of being shot on sight).

The only way to guarantee this is for the migrants to learn the language of the land...it's not saying they have to unlearn their native tongue or completely forget their culture, but they have to practice within the "confines" of the laws of that land....I would expect no different if I was the one immigrating.

I guess there are different types of migrant. I just don't think I have much in common with people running to a country illegally, marrying within their own, and then expecting several wives to live on welfare and have lots and lots of children. I don't try to force my way on the local culture. If anything I have moved away from my own culture and embraced this way of thinking as it is just better for the self and is far more sensible than back home. Families, education, work, self discipline, these are things the West seems to have left behind with the don't hurt my feelings and worship thy single Mum's brigade. Men are against all this immigration, it is feminists who are the problem.

[Gandalf]

Bollocks. When in Rome do as the Romans do.

Also teachers are not migrants who crawled ashore looking for handouts but are professional workers who had to qualify for the position through the embassy of the guest country by submitting various academic credentials.

They are still economic migrants though and it would be absurd to expect a short term visa holder to learn a host language. The Romans are learning English too, but I agree that there is a big difference between an illegal immigrant and an educated Western teacher.

[El Kabong]

They are still economic migrants though and it would be absurd to expect a short term visa holder to learn a host language. The Romans are learning English too, but I agree that there is a big difference between an illegal immigrant and an educated Western teacher.

You Brits and your classism...."those plebs needn't bother learning the language"

[brocktonblockbust]

Bollocks. When in Rome do as the Romans do.

Also teachers are not migrants who crawled ashore looking for handouts but are professional workers who had to qualify for the position through the embassy of the guest country by submitting various academic credentials.

They are still economic migrants though and it would be absurd to expect a short term visa holder to learn a host language. The Romans are learning English too, but I agree that there is a big difference between an illegal immigrant and an educated Western teacher.

theyre not short term migrants. they are here FOR FUCKING EVER!!!

[Gandalf]

Bollocks. When in Rome do as the Romans do.

Also teachers are not migrants who crawled ashore looking for handouts but are professional workers who had to qualify for the position through the embassy of the guest country by submitting various academic credentials.

They are still economic migrants though and it would be absurd to expect a short term visa holder to learn a host language. The Romans are learning English too, but I agree that there is a big difference between an illegal immigrant and an educated Western teacher.

theyre not short term migrants. they are here FOR FUCKING EVER!!!

That's the big problem. ILLEGAL law breaking migrants are being rewarded for criminality and there are no checks on intelligence, education or social compatibility. A dangerous and stupid game. Unchecked migration has been happening for 30 years now amd people are finally done with the PC racism card. It's getting real now and civil war might be the consequence now that men are reverting back to men.

[Gandalf]

They are still economic migrants though and it would be absurd to expect a short term visa holder to learn a host language. The Romans are learning English too, but I agree that there is a big difference between an illegal immigrant and an educated Western teacher.

You Brits and your classism...."those plebs needn't bother learning the language"

What I am saying is someone who is very likely to be short term would be daft to invest in a language. Nothing to do with intelligence. I learned little in my 1st 3 years as I always intended to go home. Then I studied an MA for 2 years. Finally I did start to hit the language books, but never that well. Learning a language isn't so much about intelligence but more about perseverence. If you are long term though, you would be wise to learn a few tricks and I do. I don't bullshit like some though. They know a few structures and say 'Oh, I can speak the language!'. I am more realistic. I can ask things and get around but I cannot discuss politics which to me means I don't have the means to speak the language well. I have only ever self studied too as I have to work. Illegal migrants in the West get all kinds of free goodies to help them on their way. They even teach Korean in the foreign prisons here!