Lyle, I think deep down we all have a common thread.... and none of us are as extremist as we may be coming off to each other. Don't be guilty of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. The Al Gores, the DiCaprios.... they're not representative of the scientific community bcollins keeps referring to. As with other debates, you can't just take the words of a distorted few and use them to counter what could be some very good arguments.

IMO, it does no good to flock to one extreme or the other. Those flockers usually have personal agendas, and all they do is confuse the issues.

A good point bcollins makes is regarding the more advanced technology with which environmental conditions are now monitored. Granted..... and I'll bold this next statement..... it's also important to be extremely careful when interpreting weather data. Scientists should be like reporters and not editorial column writers.... reporting the news..... not rushing to judgments based on insufficient data. Even scientists can fall prey to that. I myself am not a scientist, although I do have a technical background and nature. But in any science, even climate science, professionals can make mistakes and be swayed by a number of factors, such as other studies, previously published trends, and even a little bias. Scientists are human also, after all.

Are humans capable of affecting the environment and even the weather to some extent? I'm not qualified one way or the other to even have an opinion on that question. If we do... we certainly haven't had that capability for a very long time in the context of "Earth time". I do know this: There are certain things I do believe in. Such as the finite supply of petroleum in the world. It only makes sense. A lot of very fast withdrawals, versus a very slow rate of deposit. Does that mean we're going to run out of petroleum in 10 years? 50 years? 200 years? Never? Who knows. Such it goes with global temperatures, the melting of the ice caps, etc, etc. Is man doing something to cause it? Is man doing something to affect it? If so... is it a 10% effect? A 20%? A 0.00000000001% effect? Is it enough to even worry about? Are we just seeing something cyclical and mistakenly attaching man's hand to it? For the record, I don't like the doomsdayers who would have humanity thrown into a panic and running for higher ground. They just rub me the wrong way.

I think we're all intelligent enough. Matter of fact, I believe there are more than a few extremely capable minds on this forum. I think we're all intelligent enough to ponder these and other climate issues without bias, and with an open mind. Ideally we should be open to say.... "Damn... I guess I was wrong about that." Or... "Gee, I didn't know that. That throws a brand new perspective on what I was thinking."

The enemy of all this is ignorance, coupled with hidden agendas and our own egos. Nobody likes to change direction midstream.