Zab Judah!

[Bx730NY]

so he lost to mayweather, and he lost a controversial decision against baldomir (i had zab by a round or two) and now people are sweating him and saying that hes pretty much done.

bad news, haters. hes gonna come back!

was i the only one who saw the first portion of the mayweather fight that thought to themselves that judah was about as good at welterweight as just about anybody ive seen in a very long time?

of course, mayweather adjusted his game plan and picked him apart for the remainder of the fight, but thats floyd mayweather jr. and he would do that to ANYBODY.

as for baldomir, it was zab at his worst that night and if they rematched again, i would pick zab all day long.

take a look at zabs other performances (excluding tszyu) and you will see why i say these things so confidently

he has the ability, the speed, the power, the footwork, and at times the stamina. i cant deny that hes a headcase, but that is the only flaw i see in his game (no question that its a huge one, though)

i think his mental issues can be overcome. maybe he can cure that with meds (lithium, prozac, ridolin, or something) or what is even more likely, how about breaking away from yoel (another big setback in his career, imo) and maybe hooking up with a quality team.

even if zab does neither, i know that he has all the necessary intangibles to be on top again............and he will!



look out for zab in 2007

Damn Froz, I hate to say this but I agree with you for the first time. I actually had fun disagreeing with you all the time. Lol.... naw man but seriously, very good post.

[Majesty]

I hate it when people don't face facts, Judah is a waste of talent, all welters are scared of Margarito, Mayweather is beatable, and Hatton beat Collazo, who is probably a top 5 welter. Oh, and Tszyu was a legend, and should come back!

CC and right on, i agree with all of the above, Margarito isn't the best in the division but nobody dares to fight him, Mayweather will get his ass handed to him at 154 if he goes in against DLH or even at welter if he fights Mosley, Hatton beat Collazo (at least i had him winning even if it was just barely), Judah is nothing great, just another fighter that made very little noise and was quickly silenced, and that will be completely forgotten ten years from now, if Gatti isn't going in the hall of fame, well Judah sure as hell isn't

CC to both of you,except I disagree with the points on Floyd,I don't think either beats him although I hope I'm wrong.

Judah got beat by Tszyu, Spinks, Baldomir AND Mayweather doesn't that show he doesn't belong there? Hatton is 10 times the fighter Judah is, and he would absolutly destroy Zab, I tried to be diplomatic, but facts are facts.

Yeah and only one had the guts to rematch him and we saw what happened to Spinks Neither Mayweather, tszyu or Baldomir would ever fight Zab in a rematch. BALDOMIR EVEN SAID THE ONLY REASON HE BEAT ZAB WAS BECAUSE ZAB UNDERESTIMATED HIM! So you know for damn sure he isn't fighting a prepared Zab again Mayweather don't have to. And Tszyu didn't want to until he lost his title(Tszyu to Hatton). Sure in terms of talent you could put Zab as one of the best p4p TALENTED fighters in the last 20 years. but in terms of using it he is beneath those like Tszyu and Mayweather and them at the moment. because with the talent he has he shouldn't have lost to Tszyu and Baldomir, but he did and that shows that Talent is one thing, but using your talent is another.

To say Judah could be P4P in last 20 years for talent is the utter bullshit. He has speed,his power is ovr rated and talent includes things other than speed or power. And what a stupid fucking point,Zab under estimated Baldo,a true champ doesn't do that firstly and secondly,even if Zab is prepareD,what happens whenBaldo lands again?

As for Tszyu,who said winner takes all,no rematch at the press conference? Go and watch the fight again,what the post fight conference and watch the interview with KT STRAIGHT after the fight,Zab brought up the stipulation in the first place.

And you answered your own question,the only 1 to rematch him was Spinks,a fight he should not have lost in the first place,Mayweather beat him easily,he laid out the conditions for Tszyu and and Baldo has no need to go back,especially seeing as Zab got Floyd AFTER losing!! And you're the one that breaches shit about Raheem(remember that?) that he deserves a hot after beating Morales,how can EM get a shot at Pac after he lost etc etc yet Zab got a hot at P4P NUMBER 1 after losing!!

George I disagree with your above statement. With some questions

Why is losing to Spinks a bad thing?

Lennox Lewis is a true champ and he underestimated people all the time

So has Barerra and Morales. So you shouldn't single out Zab Judah and make a statement like "True Champions don't underestimate opponents" when it's done all the time by true champions. Trinidad also underestimated Wright in thinking he would blow him away with power, same with Hopkins. So I don't agree with what you said.

And you make a point on the statement about Judah and Morales getting shots and who and everything. And thats true. But either way it doesn't make it right. And Baldomir is getting his shot at Floyd now for more money then he would have if he fought him after Judah. I think beating Gatti upped his marketability by A LOT!! And Raheem's loss to Freitas(I had it a draw) hurt his, but neither are getting a shot at Pacquiao. So it can't be the same.

Respond to that please.

[Hairdoo]

I hate it when people don't face facts, Judah is a waste of talent, all welters are scared of Margarito, Mayweather is beatable, and Hatton beat Collazo, who is probably a top 5 welter. Oh, and Tszyu was a legend, and should come back!

Tszyu was a legend but his body won't let him train hard enough without injury to make a come back.

[yoitsdan]

True champions defend their title successfully, treat their opponents with respect, handle themselves with dignity and give 100% in the gym AND the ring. Thats everything Zab isn't, and everything that marquis fighters do.

[Majesty]

True champions defend their title successfully, treat their opponents with respect, handle themselves with dignity and give 100% in the gym AND the ring. Thats everything Zab isn't, and everything that marquis fighters do.

james Toney

[Puya]

[yoitsdan]

True champions defend their title successfully, treat their opponents with respect, handle themselves with dignity and give 100% in the gym AND the ring. Thats everything Zab isn't, and everything that marquis fighters do.

james Toney

Toney went toe to toe with Sam Peter at the age of 38 if I'm not mistaken, and he started as a middleweight, I think that qualifies him as better than Zab.
Oh and the Knicks rule.

[Majesty]

True champions defend their title successfully, treat their opponents with respect, handle themselves with dignity and give 100% in the gym AND the ring. Thats everything Zab isn't, and everything that marquis fighters do.

james Toney

Toney went toe to toe with Sam Peter at the age of 38 if I'm not mistaken, and he started as a middleweight, I think that qualifies him as better than Zab.

Not by what you said.

"True champions defend their title successfully,

Lost it before his first defense.

treat their opponents with respect

We're talking about the same James Toney right?

handle themselves with dignity

above...

and give 100% in the gym AND the ring.

isn't wacko the one that calls him James "Fat ass" Toney. And Lampley that calls him a fat tub of goo?

Thats everything Zab isn't, and everything that marquis fighters do."

I guess James Toney isn't a marquis fighter then.

He may be a Marquee fighter though

[yoitsdan]

True champions defend their title successfully, treat their opponents with respect, handle themselves with dignity and give 100% in the gym AND the ring. Thats everything Zab isn't, and everything that marquis fighters do.

james Toney

Toney went toe to toe with Sam Peter at the age of 38 if I'm not mistaken, and he started as a middleweight, I think that qualifies him as better than Zab.

Not by what you said.

"True champions defend their title successfully,

Lost it before his first defense.

treat their opponents with respect

We're talking about the same James Toney right?

handle themselves with dignity

above...

and give 100% in the gym AND the ring.

isn't wacko the one that calls him James "Fat ass" Toney. And Lampley that calls him a fat tub of goo?

Thats everything Zab isn't, and everything that marquis fighters do."

I guess James Toney isn't a marquis fighter then.

He may be a Marquee fighter though

Ok you got me on a technicality, you win Majesty. Agree to disagree? You been drinking tonight, your fiestier than usual, I think we're just eachother's idea of an asshole fan, blinded by their flag, and not willing to back down oh and that fat tub of goo is the saviour of the American heavyweights

[Majesty]

True champions defend their title successfully, treat their opponents with respect, handle themselves with dignity and give 100% in the gym AND the ring. Thats everything Zab isn't, and everything that marquis fighters do.

james Toney

Toney went toe to toe with Sam Peter at the age of 38 if I'm not mistaken, and he started as a middleweight, I think that qualifies him as better than Zab.

Not by what you said.

"True champions defend their title successfully,

Lost it before his first defense.

treat their opponents with respect

We're talking about the same James Toney right?

handle themselves with dignity

above...

and give 100% in the gym AND the ring.

isn't wacko the one that calls him James "Fat ass" Toney. And Lampley that calls him a fat tub of goo?

Thats everything Zab isn't, and everything that marquis fighters do."

I guess James Toney isn't a marquis fighter then.

He may be a Marquee fighter though

Ok you got me on a technicality, you win Majesty. Agree to disagree? You been drinking tonight, your fiestier than usual, I think we're just eachother's idea of an asshole fan, blinded by their flag, and not willing to back down oh and that fat tub of goo is the saviour of the American heavyweights

Look at the Heavyweights compared to the Welterweights

And no I haven't been drinking, I don't drink or smoke. I'm just having fun with the debate.

And I thought Rahman was the savior...oh yea....now I remember.. Maskaev's leg

(true story) Heard that Rahman aint answering his calls.

I truly hope he isn't too sad he has nothing to be ashamed about, he put forth a great performance and he should keep his head up.

[yoitsdan]

Rahman was, but look what happened. I hate the heavies aswell, but I love James Toney. He's the most charismatic guy in the division, and he comes to fight. Rahman is not a real foghter, he's an athlete with gloves, not a natural puncher, just a muscly freak.

[El Gamo]

I hate it when people don't face facts, Judah is a waste of talent, all welters are scared of Margarito, Mayweather is beatable, and Hatton beat Collazo, who is probably a top 5 welter. Oh, and Tszyu was a legend, and should come back!

CC and right on, i agree with all of the above, Margarito isn't the best in the division but nobody dares to fight him, Mayweather will get his ass handed to him at 154 if he goes in against DLH or even at welter if he fights Mosley, Hatton beat Collazo (at least i had him winning even if it was just barely), Judah is nothing great, just another fighter that made very little noise and was quickly silenced, and that will be completely forgotten ten years from now, if Gatti isn't going in the hall of fame, well Judah sure as hell isn't

CC to both of you,except I disagree with the points on Floyd,I don't think either beats him although I hope I'm wrong.

Judah got beat by Tszyu, Spinks, Baldomir AND Mayweather doesn't that show he doesn't belong there? Hatton is 10 times the fighter Judah is, and he would absolutly destroy Zab, I tried to be diplomatic, but facts are facts.

Yeah and only one had the guts to rematch him and we saw what happened to Spinks Neither Mayweather, tszyu or Baldomir would ever fight Zab in a rematch. BALDOMIR EVEN SAID THE ONLY REASON HE BEAT ZAB WAS BECAUSE ZAB UNDERESTIMATED HIM! So you know for damn sure he isn't fighting a prepared Zab again Mayweather don't have to. And Tszyu didn't want to until he lost his title(Tszyu to Hatton). Sure in terms of talent you could put Zab as one of the best p4p TALENTED fighters in the last 20 years. but in terms of using it he is beneath those like Tszyu and Mayweather and them at the moment. because with the talent he has he shouldn't have lost to Tszyu and Baldomir, but he did and that shows that Talent is one thing, but using your talent is another.

To say Judah could be P4P in last 20 years for talent is the utter bullshit. He has speed,his power is ovr rated and talent includes things other than speed or power. And what a stupid fucking point,Zab under estimated Baldo,a true champ doesn't do that firstly and secondly,even if Zab is prepareD,what happens whenBaldo lands again?

As for Tszyu,who said winner takes all,no rematch at the press conference? Go and watch the fight again,what the post fight conference and watch the interview with KT STRAIGHT after the fight,Zab brought up the stipulation in the first place.

And you answered your own question,the only 1 to rematch him was Spinks,a fight he should not have lost in the first place,Mayweather beat him easily,he laid out the conditions for Tszyu and and Baldo has no need to go back,especially seeing as Zab got Floyd AFTER losing!! And you're the one that breaches shit about Raheem(remember that?) that he deserves a hot after beating Morales,how can EM get a shot at Pac after he lost etc etc yet Zab got a hot at P4P NUMBER 1 after losing!!

George I disagree with your above statement. With some questions

Why is losing to Spinks a bad thing?

Lennox Lewis is a true champ and he underestimated people all the time

So has Barerra and Morales. So you shouldn't single out Zab Judah and make a statement like "True Champions don't underestimate opponents" when it's done all the time by true champions. Trinidad also underestimated Wright in thinking he would blow him away with power, same with Hopkins. So I don't agree with what you said.

And you make a point on the statement about Judah and Morales getting shots and who and everything. And thats true. But either way it doesn't make it right. And Baldomir is getting his shot at Floyd now for more money then he would have if he fought him after Judah. I think beating Gatti upped his marketability by A LOT!! And Raheem's loss to Freitas(I had it a draw) hurt his, but neither are getting a shot at Pacquiao. So it can't be the same.

Respond to that please.

Your last paragraph is nonsense bill. As for Tito,comparing Tito over estimating(and with his BLITZING power,who can blame him) Winky and BHop,2 of the best fighters to ever lace the gloves to Zab under estimating Spinks and Baldo is a really poor analogy. How about under estimating Pineda? Losing to Spinks is bad because Judah should not have lost to him,and was a big favourite. He is better than Spinks in every department,so that begs the question of how he lost. And please don't compare Lewis to Zab,again,no relevance whatsoever,Lennox lost twice and avenged both defeats with ease.

You usually make good points Drake but sometimes,you argue for arguments sake,which is pointless.

[p4pking]

I hate it when people don't face facts, Judah is a waste of talent, all welters are scared of Margarito, Mayweather is beatable, and Hatton beat Collazo, who is probably a top 5 welter. Oh, and Tszyu was a legend, and should come back!

CC and right on, i agree with all of the above, Margarito isn't the best in the division but nobody dares to fight him, Mayweather will get his a** handed to him at 154 if he goes in against DLH or even at welter if he fights Mosley, Hatton beat Collazo (at least i had him winning even if it was just barely), Judah is nothing great, just another fighter that made very little noise and was quickly silenced, and that will be completely forgotten ten years from now, if Gatti isn't going in the hall of fame, well Judah sure as hell isn't

CC to both of you,except I disagree with the points on Floyd,I don't think either beats him although I hope I'm wrong.

Judah got beat by Tszyu, Spinks, Baldomir AND Mayweather doesn't that show he doesn't belong there? Hatton is 10 times the fighter Judah is, and he would absolutly destroy Zab, I tried to be diplomatic, but facts are facts.

Yeah and only one had the guts to rematch him and we saw what happened to Spinks Neither Mayweather, tszyu or Baldomir would ever fight Zab in a rematch. BALDOMIR EVEN SAID THE ONLY REASON HE BEAT ZAB WAS BECAUSE ZAB UNDERESTIMATED HIM! So you know for damn sure he isn't fighting a prepared Zab again Mayweather don't have to. And Tszyu didn't want to until he lost his title(Tszyu to Hatton). Sure in terms of talent you could put Zab as one of the best p4p TALENTED fighters in the last 20 years. but in terms of using it he is beneath those like Tszyu and Mayweather and them at the moment. because with the talent he has he shouldn't have lost to Tszyu and Baldomir, but he did and that shows that Talent is one thing, but using your talent is another.

To say Judah could be P4P in last 20 years for talent is the utter bullshit. He has speed,his power is ovr rated and talent includes things other than speed or power. And what a stupid F****** point,Zab under estimated Baldo,a true champ doesn't do that firstly and secondly,even if Zab is prepareD,what happens whenBaldo lands again?

As for Tszyu,who said winner takes all,no rematch at the press conference? Go and watch the fight again,what the post fight conference and watch the interview with KT STRAIGHT after the fight,Zab brought up the stipulation in the first place.

And you answered your own question,the only 1 to rematch him was Spinks,a fight he should not have lost in the first place,Mayweather beat him easily,he laid out the conditions for Tszyu and and Baldo has no need to go back,especially seeing as Zab got Floyd AFTER losing!! And you're the one that breaches S*** about Raheem(remember that?) that he deserves a hot after beating Morales,how can EM get a shot at Pac after he lost etc etc yet Zab got a hot at P4P NUMBER 1 after losing!!

George I disagree with your above statement. With some questions

Why is losing to Spinks a bad thing?

Lennox Lewis is a true champ and he underestimated people all the time

So has Barerra and Morales. So you shouldn't single out Zab Judah and make a statement like "True Champions don't underestimate opponents" when it's done all the time by true champions. Trinidad also underestimated Wright in thinking he would blow him away with power, same with Hopkins. So I don't agree with what you said.

And you make a point on the statement about Judah and Morales getting shots and who and everything. And thats true. But either way it doesn't make it right. And Baldomir is getting his shot at Floyd now for more money then he would have if he fought him after Judah. I think beating Gatti upped his marketability by A LOT!! And Raheem's loss to Freitas(I had it a draw) hurt his, but neither are getting a shot at Pacquiao. So it can't be the same.

Respond to that please.

Your last paragraph is nonsense bill. As for Tito,comparing Tito over estimating(and with his BLITZING power,who can blame him) Winky and BHop,2 of the best fighters to ever lace the gloves to Zab under estimating Spinks and Baldo is a really poor analogy. How about under estimating Pineda? Losing to Spinks is bad because Judah should not have lost to him,and was a big favourite. He is better than Spinks in every department,so that begs the question of how he lost. And please don't compare Lewis to Zab,again,no relevance whatsoever,Lennox lost twice and avenged both defeats with ease.

You usually make good points Drake but sometimes,you argue for arguments sake,which is pointless.

Gotta say I think your dead wrong here Game.. It doesn't matter how great a fighter is or how great you consider them to be, the point he was making is that Lewis and Trinidad also underestimated opponents on several occasions.... It doesn't mean they didn't have the abilities that they did, but that they weren't always well prepared to use them. You can't just say it's a poor analogy because you don't consider Zab to be as good as those fighters, that has nothing to do with it. It's easy for you to just come up with the typical, "don't put Zab and so and so in the same sentence"... Prevents you from actually having to think about it, I suppose.

[Purist]

I hate it when people don't face facts, Judah is a waste of talent, all welters are scared of Margarito, Mayweather is beatable, and Hatton beat Collazo, who is probably a top 5 welter. Oh, and Tszyu was a legend, and should come back!

CC and right on, i agree with all of the above, Margarito isn't the best in the division but nobody dares to fight him, Mayweather will get his a** handed to him at 154 if he goes in against DLH or even at welter if he fights Mosley, Hatton beat Collazo (at least i had him winning even if it was just barely), Judah is nothing great, just another fighter that made very little noise and was quickly silenced, and that will be completely forgotten ten years from now, if Gatti isn't going in the hall of fame, well Judah sure as hell isn't

CC to both of you,except I disagree with the points on Floyd,I don't think either beats him although I hope I'm wrong.

Judah got beat by Tszyu, Spinks, Baldomir AND Mayweather doesn't that show he doesn't belong there? Hatton is 10 times the fighter Judah is, and he would absolutly destroy Zab, I tried to be diplomatic, but facts are facts.

Yeah and only one had the guts to rematch him and we saw what happened to Spinks Neither Mayweather, tszyu or Baldomir would ever fight Zab in a rematch. BALDOMIR EVEN SAID THE ONLY REASON HE BEAT ZAB WAS BECAUSE ZAB UNDERESTIMATED HIM! So you know for damn sure he isn't fighting a prepared Zab again Mayweather don't have to. And Tszyu didn't want to until he lost his title(Tszyu to Hatton). Sure in terms of talent you could put Zab as one of the best p4p TALENTED fighters in the last 20 years. but in terms of using it he is beneath those like Tszyu and Mayweather and them at the moment. because with the talent he has he shouldn't have lost to Tszyu and Baldomir, but he did and that shows that Talent is one thing, but using your talent is another.

To say Judah could be P4P in last 20 years for talent is the utter bullshit. He has speed,his power is ovr rated and talent includes things other than speed or power. And what a stupid F****** point,Zab under estimated Baldo,a true champ doesn't do that firstly and secondly,even if Zab is prepareD,what happens whenBaldo lands again?

As for Tszyu,who said winner takes all,no rematch at the press conference? Go and watch the fight again,what the post fight conference and watch the interview with KT STRAIGHT after the fight,Zab brought up the stipulation in the first place.

And you answered your own question,the only 1 to rematch him was Spinks,a fight he should not have lost in the first place,Mayweather beat him easily,he laid out the conditions for Tszyu and and Baldo has no need to go back,especially seeing as Zab got Floyd AFTER losing!! And you're the one that breaches S*** about Raheem(remember that?) that he deserves a hot after beating Morales,how can EM get a shot at Pac after he lost etc etc yet Zab got a hot at P4P NUMBER 1 after losing!!

George I disagree with your above statement. With some questions

Why is losing to Spinks a bad thing?

Lennox Lewis is a true champ and he underestimated people all the time

So has Barerra and Morales. So you shouldn't single out Zab Judah and make a statement like "True Champions don't underestimate opponents" when it's done all the time by true champions. Trinidad also underestimated Wright in thinking he would blow him away with power, same with Hopkins. So I don't agree with what you said.

And you make a point on the statement about Judah and Morales getting shots and who and everything. And thats true. But either way it doesn't make it right. And Baldomir is getting his shot at Floyd now for more money then he would have if he fought him after Judah. I think beating Gatti upped his marketability by A LOT!! And Raheem's loss to Freitas(I had it a draw) hurt his, but neither are getting a shot at Pacquiao. So it can't be the same.

Respond to that please.

Your last paragraph is nonsense bill. As for Tito,comparing Tito over estimating(and with his BLITZING power,who can blame him) Winky and BHop,2 of the best fighters to ever lace the gloves to Zab under estimating Spinks and Baldo is a really poor analogy. How about under estimating Pineda? Losing to Spinks is bad because Judah should not have lost to him,and was a big favourite. He is better than Spinks in every department,so that begs the question of how he lost. And please don't compare Lewis to Zab,again,no relevance whatsoever,Lennox lost twice and avenged both defeats with ease.

You usually make good points Drake but sometimes,you argue for arguments sake,which is pointless.

Gotta say I think your dead wrong here Game.. It doesn't matter how great a fighter is or how great you consider them to be, the point he was making is that Lewis and Trinidad also underestimated opponents on several occasions.... It doesn't mean they didn't have the abilities that they did, but that they weren't always well prepared to use them. You can't just say it's a poor analogy because you don't consider Zab to be as good as those fighters, that has nothing to do with it. It's easy for you to just come up with the typical, "don't put Zab and so and so in the same sentence"... Prevents you from actually having to think about it, I suppose.

You just made Trinidad look a lot worse Game. You downgrade Judah underestimating Baldomir and Spinks and try to say that they aren't much like you're speaking of Judah's arrogance in himself and lack of discipline right? And yet you say that Trinidad underestimated Hopkins and Winky(and them call them 2 of the best fighters to lace up the gloves) So the mere fact you're making that Trinidad underestimated THEM because he thought he'd blow them away(as great as they were) is making Trinidad look bad.

And no, I'm nor responding to you, I'm just letting you know that your comment and the Way you put it makes it seem like Trinidad had less focus and discipline then Judah. Which is VERY VERY wrong imo But I'm sure you didn't mean it that way. And CC in 24 p4p

[Hulk]

True champions defend their title successfully, treat their opponents with respect, handle themselves with dignity and give 100% in the gym AND the ring. Thats everything Zab isn't, and everything that marquis fighters do.

Well Hatton is about 2/4 in that little criteria ya got there man. He consistently fouls and treats no one with any respect in the ring, constantly rabid punching, hitting on the break, and hitting people in the nuts blatently. So I guess he is only a half marquis fighter. Judah's no angel, he has an tendency to hit people in their balls too, and disrespect people. But he has defended his title successfully at 140, and shoulda never even lost the first Spinks fight to begin with and we all know it, so folks stop bringin that up. Judah beat Spinks BOTH times, clearly.