These Panto match ups have to stop!

[Fenster]

It is called prize fighting for a reason. From the very bottom rungs of the sport to the top there has always been and always will be mismatches, bad decisions, robberies and pantomine fights. Thinking otherwise actually demonstrates a lack of insight into how boxing works. At the lower levels in amateur contests it is sometimes hard to match make with a limited pool of fighters willing to come and risk their records at your club/region/association and so mismatches often happen where someone in a different league blows away their opponent and robberies where the house fighter is given the decision over the traveling fighter, either because of ineptitude, random interpretation or outright favoritism happen regularly.

Sanctioning bodies do not co-operate from different countries and your dumb idea that it is the Brits who are guilty of these charades and not the Americans based on one night of boxing smacks of self depreciation or loathing in an effort to appear fair. Seriously huge over compensation.

Despite how Boxing operates the British Domestic scene at the upper end of the amateurs and pros is and always has been ultra competitive. Iaminuit (God rest his blessed soul) often used to comment on it, and he was not alone in tuning in from abroad to watch UK cards stacked with genuine 50/50 fights.

There are numerous protected American prospects who have fought anyone including the local dustman to avoid a meaningful challenge and plenty of Pantomine fights where 'world champions' have yet to fight outside of their comfort zone. Not every fight can be a decider to see who the best in a weight division might be, or two thin out and exclude the best from a pool of excellence.

It is an inexact blend of science, art, sport, will power, show business, sheer bloody mindedness and inspiration that allows us all the privilege to witness the entire gamut from one extreme to the other. It is not just another sport and any move to sanitize and codify it in a manner that will neuter or censor it should be vehemently opposed. It is one of the least sanitized and most organic spectacles one can witness.

And whilst I have not see tonight's latest debacle I can not imagine it to be any worse than many that have gone before or may happen after. It's madness. You can't logically defend it in anyway and that is why we love it. Spectator, supporter, participant , trainer, manager, promoter etc all realise this at a very deep and innate level and so it will go on...despite everything. And thank God for that

Very well said.

Far from a debacle, the so-called "mismatch" produced a HUGE upset and a supposed "lily-livered fake celebrity boxer" showed incredible courage beyond the call of duty.

Your post captured it perfectly. Pure madness.

[Gandalf]

They were both good fights. The Haye one more because you didn't expect the leg to go like that. I really expected a missmatch. Didn't consider Hayes injuries, age and inactivity. I should have. The mug was me.

[Primo Carnera]

well on paper cruiserweight champion moving up to fight a former cruiserweight champ at heavyweight isn't that bad, I don't see why a governing body would not allow this :S..

It was an exciting fight. I don't get the hate.

It was exciting , absolutely. But that was nothing to do with any boxing skill, it was a bizarre set of circumstances .As for Hate, I don't hate. Like I said in the OP, if you want to spend your money happily watching farces that have virtually nothing to do with Boxing, try WWE . That should satisfy your desire for "Excitement"
PPV's should be for the BIG Matchups in the sport.
But like I said, spend your well earned however you want.

[Ron Swanson]

Great thread. Sad that people defend the circus. At the highest levels there should be the highest levels of competition.

I joined Gandalf in not even watching the circus for free. I watched the real fight.

The one where both men refused to fight - utter shite/snoozefest Thurman v Garcia and they were booed from midway non stop until the end.

Haye v Bellew entertained, had loads of Drama and the crowd loved it.

I know which one i'd rather watch miss match or not

Yes, you're the target audience. The drama, the trash talk. I'm not the target audience, I prefer the sport of sport. I know I'll always be in the minority. But someone should speak up for sport because we know the crowds will always speak with their money for empty bluster.

[powerpuncher]

I think that there is a place for sideshows in this sport. The place though is on free TV. I just can't fathom why anybody would pay money to see haye and bellew fight. It makes absolutely no sense. I understand if it's free. That's fine.

I don't like any PPV, but at least when the best fights the best, it's entertaining. It's very rare that I see two good fighters fight and I don't enjoy the match thoroughly. I just love watching smart boxing with each fighter adjusting.

Maybe I'm just different, but I like boxing for the boxing. Trash talk can definitely help, but that alone doesn't matter. I'm way more into good fights being made. I would never spend money for good trash talk, but I would be willing to spend money on good craft.

[Boxing24]

the boxing stars are the all corupt and black markiting in the sports feild

[Fenster]

Without the majority spending money on "empty bluster" we wouldn't have a sport. It needs characters, stories, pantomime villains, razzmatazz and the occasional lunacy to constantly draw new fans in.

The Haye-Bellew fight made mainstream news in the UK, front and back page. And boxing fans around the world were gripped by it too (listen to American boxing podcasts like Steve Kim's The Next Round, or read Doug Fischer's mail bag in The Ring).

Britain has a dozen (?) "world" champions yet no silly alphabet or bogus "world" title was needed to engross the "casual" (general public) or the hardcore (nerds) just a good old fashion prize fight, a battle between two men to settle their differences. Terrific.

Long live the "mugs!!!"

[Beanz]

Great thread. Sad that people defend the circus. At the highest levels there should be the highest levels of competition.

I joined Gandalf in not even watching the circus for free. I watched the real fight.

The one where both men refused to fight - utter shite/snoozefest Thurman v Garcia and they were booed from midway non stop until the end.

Haye v Bellew entertained, had loads of Drama and the crowd loved it.

I know which one i'd rather watch miss match or not

Yes, you're the target audience. The drama, the trash talk. I'm not the target audience, I prefer the sport of sport. I know I'll always be in the minority. But someone should speak up for sport because we know the crowds will always speak with their money for empty bluster.

I don't think it is a case of either / or . It is quite possible to enjoy both for what they are. There are many here that can appreciate both the sublime and the ridiculous. Often the sublime is not quite as magical as we make it out to be and the ridiculous not so stupid.

[smashup]

@Ron Swanson

I like and enjoy the technical fighters as much as the brawlers but this fight got everyone talking and wanting to see who came out on top.
Yes there was insane hype, trash talking etc but thats what draws new fans to the sport.
I had me, my gf, her girl mate and two 11 year old boys glued to the tv on the edge of our seats and loving it, all of us shouting at the screen and it was a great night.
If that was the elite "Sport" genuine ppv fight your on about I.E. Garcia v Thurman and hypothetically it was on at 10pm uk time there would have been me watching on my own as they wouldn't have wanted to watch it/zero interest and if they did they'd have been bored shitless in a muted room due to the fact that it was a shit and very boring fight.
So thats me and 4 non boxing fans (2 kids, 2 women) all of which wanted to watch Haye v Bellew because we knew we'd be entertained and entertained we were.
Boxing isn't just for the purist/anorak brigade and never has been.
Never underestimate the pulling power of a genuine domestic uk grudge match.
We love it

[smashup]

Without fights like Haye v Bellew, circus, pantomim, drama etc the sport doesn't attract new fans.
Look at Floyds last 6-7 fights.... the main man in the sport who single handedly gave UFC more viewers on a fucking plate through running round the ring pot shotting his opponents.
Technically brilliant yes
Entertaining no

[Ron Swanson]

So we should be like the casuals, umm, no. And we shouldn't talk to each other like them either.

Yes, the circus is great for the casuals. But to come here with the real fight fans and discuss it as if it is valid because people are talking about it. My God, you're becoming casuals yourself.

Everything has its place, yes. And our place should be above validating what isn't valid. If you want to scream and shout with all those that don't care about a real fight that's super. Where I am genuinely offended is when people who know better come here and talk as if publicity equals validity. It's offensive to all logic and truth.

[smashup]

So we should be like the casuals, umm, no. And we shouldn't talk to each other like them either.

Yes, the circus is great for the casuals. But to come here with the real fight fans and discuss it as if it is valid because people are talking about it. My God, you're becoming casuals yourself.

Everything has its place, yes. And our place should be above validating what isn't valid. If you want to scream and shout with all those that don't care about a real fight that's super. Where I am genuinely offended is when people who know better come here and talk as if publicity equals validity. It's offensive to all logic and truth.

Your beginning to talk shit now, who the fuck are you to say that a casual fight fan shouldn't join this forum or any forum on the back of a fight like Haye v Bellew that maybe they enjoyed so much has turned them into a potential hardcore fan?

I've been watching fights live from when i was 11-12 years old when my Brother used to take me to the Royal Albert Hall to watch Pat Barrett and other Micky Duff fighters.

I was new to Boxing then (a casual) and loved it and remember Barrett being explosive, all action and very entertaining, do you think i was a purist back then or grew and learned to appreciate the more scientific tactical fighters like Floyd over the years as i watched more and more fights?


It's dinosaurs like you who actually stop the sport growing

[Master]

Pat Barrett had a bomb of a punch, think his son boxes.

[Ron Swanson]

So we should be like the casuals, umm, no. And we shouldn't talk to each other like them either.

Yes, the circus is great for the casuals. But to come here with the real fight fans and discuss it as if it is valid because people are talking about it. My God, you're becoming casuals yourself.

Everything has its place, yes. And our place should be above validating what isn't valid. If you want to scream and shout with all those that don't care about a real fight that's super. Where I am genuinely offended is when people who know better come here and talk as if publicity equals validity. It's offensive to all logic and truth.

Your beginning to talk shit now, who the fuck are you to say that a casual fight fan shouldn't join this forum or any forum on the back of a fight like Haye v Bellew that maybe they enjoyed so much has turned them into a potential hardcore fan?

I've been watching fights live from when i was 11-12 years old when my Brother used to take me to the Royal Albert Hall to watch Pat Barrett and other Micky Duff fighters.

I was new to Boxing then (a casual) and loved it and remember Barrett being explosive, all action and very entertaining, do you think i was a purist back then or grew and learned to appreciate the more scientific tactical fighters like Floyd over the years as i watched more and more fights?


It's dinosaurs like you who actually stop the sport growing

It looks as if you didn't understand a word I said. Because your points have absolutely nothing to do with what I said. You're arguing with yourself.

I'll list all the ways you seem incoherent.

1)"who the fuck are you to say a casual fight fan shouldn't join this forum or any forum"

I never said anything about that.

2)"do you think I was a purist back then or grew and learned to appreciate...."

Again, absolutely nothing to do with what I'm saying.

3)it's dinosaurs like you who stop the sport growing

Again, I didn't say anything to suggest anything about stopping the sport growing. I'm saying educated fans should have an honest dialogue. Saying publicity equals validity is bullshit. By that measure Mayweather/Pacquiao is the greatest fight ever. Umm, no it was not. I'm saying everything has its place and we should be honest. There are a lot of circus fights being made. Always has been, that's true. But it's still a circus fight and should be acknowledged as such even if crazy circumstances happen that accidentally turn the fight compelling.

If there is no honesty then you get Haye trying to con a rematch. You get Wilder trying to further his BS career acting as if Bellew is a legitimate opponent. If the fans accept BS without calling BS then all we will get is BS.

Look how Pacquiao chooses opponents, floating soft names out there and sitting back guaging the publics response. First soft opponent that doesn't outrage the public will be his opponent. Looks like that's Khan. It's been what 6 years since he's held a belt? It does nothing for Manny's resume. It's a cash grab and should be acknowledged as such.

A circus fight, whether it sells or not, should be called a circus fight.

A mismatch, whether it sells or not, should be called a mismatch.

Etcetera etcetera. None of this hurts the growth of the sport. If the sport can't tolerate honesty then what the f are we talking about?

[smashup]

So we should be like the casuals, umm, no. And we shouldn't talk to each other like them either.

Yes, the circus is great for the casuals. But to come here with the real fight fans and discuss it as if it is valid because people are talking about it. My God, you're becoming casuals yourself.

Everything has its place, yes. And our place should be above validating what isn't valid. If you want to scream and shout with all those that don't care about a real fight that's super. Where I am genuinely offended is when people who know better come here and talk as if publicity equals validity. It's offensive to all logic and truth.

Your beginning to talk shit now, who the fuck are you to say that a casual fight fan shouldn't join this forum or any forum on the back of a fight like Haye v Bellew that maybe they enjoyed so much has turned them into a potential hardcore fan?

I've been watching fights live from when i was 11-12 years old when my Brother used to take me to the Royal Albert Hall to watch Pat Barrett and other Micky Duff fighters.

I was new to Boxing then (a casual) and loved it and remember Barrett being explosive, all action and very entertaining, do you think i was a purist back then or grew and learned to appreciate the more scientific tactical fighters like Floyd over the years as i watched more and more fights?


It's dinosaurs like you who actually stop the sport growing

It looks as if you didn't understand a word I said. Because your points have absolutely nothing to do with what I said. You're arguing with yourself.

I'll list all the ways you seem incoherent.

1)"who the fuck are you to say a casual fight fan shouldn't join this forum or any forum"

I never said anything about that.

2)"do you think I was a purist back then or grew and learned to appreciate...."

Again, absolutely nothing to do with what I'm saying.

3)it's dinosaurs like you who stop the sport growing

Again, I didn't say anything to suggest anything about stopping the sport growing. I'm saying educated fans should have an honest dialogue. Saying publicity equals validity is bullshit. By that measure Mayweather/Pacquiao is the greatest fight ever. Umm, no it was not. I'm saying everything has its place and we should be honest. There are a lot of circus fights being made. Always has been, that's true. But it's still a circus fight and should be acknowledged as such even if crazy circumstances happen that accidentally turn the fight compelling.

If there is no honesty then you get Haye trying to con a rematch. You get Wilder trying to further his BS career acting as if Bellew is a legitimate opponent. If the fans accept BS without calling BS then all we will get is BS.

Look how Pacquiao chooses opponents, floating soft names out there and sitting back guaging the publics response. First soft opponent that doesn't outrage the public will be his opponent. Looks like that's Khan. It's been what 6 years since he's held a belt? It does nothing for Manny's resume. It's a cash grab and should be acknowledged as such.

A circus fight, whether it sells or not, should be called a circus fight.

A mismatch, whether it sells or not, should be called a mismatch.

Etcetera etcetera. None of this hurts the growth of the sport. If the sport can't tolerate honesty then what the f are we talking about?

Not even god knows what the fuck your talking about.

So your telling us you were born then became an elite boxing anorak and were never a "casual fan" to start with, you know like we all were as kids? - i ask this because you claim to not entertain any fight you don't consider a "Real Fight" i.e. for a world title

Prince Naseem Hamed was ringside (as a fan) at Haye v Bellew...... is he merely a "casual fan"...?
And Yes you clearly state that "casual fans" shouldn't "come here and discuss" with "real fight fans" - "Circus fights are good for the casuals" blah blah
Can a casual fan not enjoy and appreciate a technical fight then? (in your opinion)
And i never said that you said anything about stopping the sport growing...... i told you that people like you do.

I'm also publicly telling you that your a Wanker