Some cultures are better than others ? True, False, Impossible to answer conclusively

[El Kabong]

I agree that grasping at straws is evidence of a failing argument. The whole premise of Lyle's argument though is a classic straw man argument. It precedes on the notion that extreme proponents of violence in Islam are evidence of an entire culture being inferior to another. It matters not to him that nobody is arguing that these extremists do not exist, he just wants to infer that is what people are saying in order to shout louder which to him is the same as winning an argument. In fact in the terrorists thread he took me saying that the police could find no evidence to suggest the person involved had anything to do with Isis or Daesh as evidence of me making excuses for a terrorist. So go figure that one. Everything to him is about winning and yet he cannot construct an argument with any real skill or aptitude and that is why he has to repost other people's opinion for several years in a thread that nobody but himself is reading. (not this one).

So for Lyle it matters not that extremists hijack Christianity to do unspeakable deeds because he is not really interested in debating facts only espousing his own facts which are superior to everyone else's. Self -described is irrelevant, extremist Muslim preachers are self- described Muslims and also first class morons. The idea that Gd told anybody anything is about as reliable as "your cheque is in the mail" but that is the basis of most religions.

It is also quite noteworthy that despite not agreeing with Lyle's assertion that not only have you not voted but you would rather pick holes in my post. I understand that it is difficult to see from inside but Christianity has been used and continues too be used daily to justify acts of murderous barbarity.

Extremists hijack Christianity to do unspeakable deeds eh......deeds you've listed? Like:
400 years of Trans Atlantic Slave Trade that maimed, raped, killed, kidnapped, and enslaved 20 million Africans "heathens" to bring them to Christ
—Genocide of Native Americans under the name of Christ as Manifest Destiny
—Genocide of Australian Aborigines that killed 90% of their population in less than a century, again by Christian Europeans
—Salem Witch Trials
—Spanish Inquisition
—Crusades


...I do believe I countered your list with

-The Arab Slave trade and IF we're to say the Civil War was 100% about just slavery (that is not my personal belief but the popular one)THEN some 620,000 WHITE MEN died to free the slaves
-Show me a civilization that hasn't done that
-That's Australia and not america, I live in America I shan't answer for their shortcomings
-20 whole people died, 20
-SPANISH
-The Crusades were a reaction to the expanse of the Umayyad Caliphate #themuzziesdidndunuthin



Beanz, you have brought NOTHING to the debate, absolutely nothing. You and your what aboutery is nothing, you bring up old bullshit, I'm bringing you what is happening in the present day in MY culture vs cultures outside of where I am which do things that I may or may not agree with.

I'm giving the benefit of the doubt to a lot of cultures, there's something to dislike/not agree with in every culture....but when I find I dislike/disagree with a lot of what a culture is bringing about, then yeah I'm going to use the part of my culture (1st Amendment Free Speech) to call it out and say it's bullshit.....polygamy is bullshit, polygamy with MINORS is even worse, tossing gays off of rooftops is BULLSHIT, I guess you still need me to go on with this because you apparently ARE just that fucking dense, but hey I'll defend my stance all day long and twice on Sunday. ....oh part of the law (not the culture) where I'm from is that the liquor stores are closed on Sundays, I dislike that and don't agree with that....happy?

[TitoFan]

—In America white supremacists who are self-described Christian are the single largest terror threat to American security, that's according to the FBI and 392 police agencies in a study published last year
—George Bush, a devout Christian, said God told him to invade Iraq, where by some estimates 1 million civilians were killed due to this unjust war

The key words you used were "self-described". White supremacists can call themselves whatever the hell they want. They do not represent the values or principles of real Christians. This should be a totally obvious fact, but for some reason I had to say it anyway. If George Bush really said that, then it just strengthens my opinion of him as a first-class moron. George Bush could barely speak intelligibly in public... and his assertion that God told him ANYTHING is about as reliable as "your check is in the mail."

It's ok to make an argument. But grasping at straws is often seen as evidence of a failing argument.

I agree that grasping at straws is evidence of a failing argument. The whole premise of Lyle's argument though is a classic straw man argument. It precedes on the notion that extreme proponents of violence in Islam are evidence of an entire culture being inferior to another. It matters not to him that nobody is arguing that these extremists do not exist, he just wants to infer that is what people are saying in order to shout louder which to him is the same as winning an argument. In fact in the terrorists thread he took me saying that the police could find no evidence to suggest the person involved had anything to do with Isis or Daesh as evidence of me making excuses for a terrorist. So go figure that one. Everything to him is about winning and yet he cannot construct an argument with any real skill or aptitude and that is why he has to repost other people's opinion for several years in a thread that nobody but himself is reading. (not this one).

So for Lyle it matters not that extremists hijack Christianity to do unspeakable deeds because he is not really interested in debating facts only espousing his own facts which are superior to everyone else's. Self -described is irrelevant, extremist Muslim preachers are self- described Muslims and also first class morons. The idea that Gd told anybody anything is about as reliable as "your cheque is in the mail" but that is the basis of most religions.

It is also quite noteworthy that despite not agreeing with Lyle's assertion that not only have you not voted but you would rather pick holes in my post. I understand that it is difficult to see from inside but Christianity has been used and continues too be used daily to justify acts of murderous barbarity.

No, I have not voted and if I did, I'd probably go with option 3. Admittedly, it's difficult for me not to generalize on a certain culture when all you hear in the news are the terrorist acts almost on a daily basis. But I force myself to think that there have to be individuals in each and every culture who are decent human beings, who themselves may be horrified by what is carried out by their fellow countrymen or practitioners, whatever the correct term may apply here. Admittedly, it's not easy to avoid falling into that generalization trap. But I feel we have to rise above that.

Are there questionable practices backed by different religions? Sure. But they're questionable to US. Hardly the 3rd party, objective observer to judge on those things. Eating is probably not a good analogy here... but some cultures view eating cows as sacrilegious and barbaric. We think the same thing about eating dogs and cats. In some cultures women are still seen as having the obligation to obey the man. We think that's backward, but even the women in those cultures defend the beliefs.

It's a complex subject, but I'd rather err on the safe side. If option 3 were taken away and I was forced at gunpoint to answer the question... I'd say "yes", but with the caveat that my answer is not at all objective.

[Master]

—In America white supremacists who are self-described Christian are the single largest terror threat to American security, that's according to the FBI and 392 police agencies in a study published last year
—George Bush, a devout Christian, said God told him to invade Iraq, where by some estimates 1 million civilians were killed due to this unjust war

The key words you used were "self-described". White supremacists can call themselves whatever the hell they want. They do not represent the values or principles of real Christians. This should be a totally obvious fact, but for some reason I had to say it anyway. If George Bush really said that, then it just strengthens my opinion of him as a first-class moron. George Bush could barely speak intelligibly in public... and his assertion that God told him ANYTHING is about as reliable as "your check is in the mail."

It's ok to make an argument. But grasping at straws is often seen as evidence of a failing argument.

Bush did often call the war on Iraq a crusade.

[El Kabong]

—In America white supremacists who are self-described Christian are the single largest terror threat to American security, that's according to the FBI and 392 police agencies in a study published last year
—George Bush, a devout Christian, said God told him to invade Iraq, where by some estimates 1 million civilians were killed due to this unjust war

The key words you used were "self-described". White supremacists can call themselves whatever the hell they want. They do not represent the values or principles of real Christians. This should be a totally obvious fact, but for some reason I had to say it anyway. If George Bush really said that, then it just strengthens my opinion of him as a first-class moron. George Bush could barely speak intelligibly in public... and his assertion that God told him ANYTHING is about as reliable as "your check is in the mail."

It's ok to make an argument. But grasping at straws is often seen as evidence of a failing argument.

Bush did often call the war on Iraq a crusade.

Which was and is a poor choice of words considering the enemy. And that has WHAT to do with my culture?


You don't see me getting all upset recounting the numerous centuries/millenea old horrible jihads waged against unbelievers whenever ANY Muslim calls for a jihad do you? Nooooooooooo but you say "Crusade" regarding a majority Muslim nation ruled by a complete cunt and it's like showing Dracula the sunlight.....fucking ridiculous.

[TitoFan]

it seems the Quran allows and even encourages wife beating in its passages. I don't feel high and mighty enough to claim culture superiority over any other cultures... but this is a definite no-no... at least in our eyes. It's eye-opening to see, however, that a majority of Islamic women agree with wife beating if she's caught cheating. It's ok for them, even if it's not ok for us.

Tito, The Koran may well say that, but don't forget the stuff that the Christian Bible says too:

- explicit support for slavery, plus rules saying it's OK to beat them hard enough they are incapacitated for two days.

- blatant sexism. Saying men own women, they should all be virgins until they marry (but men don't). They should be put to death for adultery and premarital sex. If a woman makes a noise while being rated, it proves she agreed to it and should be put to death.

- demanding murder. There are whole lists of people who it is OK to kill. Indeed Christians are told who they should murder.

- saying that handicapped people should be killed early on. If you find an older one, it's a good thing to kill them straight away.

- ethnic cleansing is a good thing because if you murder a whole tribe or race, you can have their land and God will be pleased.

- that animal sacrifice is pleasing to God. That animals have no rights and Man is put on earth to command them all.

- killing and torture of all non-believers is an explicit command from God.

All those things are in the Bible, in great detail. Just like the Koran, the Bible is a book of its time. Christians surely can't ridicule the Koran having things in it that we find outrageous.

The problem is the people who do take these books literally - and let's not forget that there are many Christians who do this as well. Granted, they didn't seem to be blowing people up and beheading them ..... but they certainly did worse in the past.


Also, the majority of Muslim women I know most certainly don't agree with wife beating. They are not crazy! Where do you get the data that says the majority of them agree with it?

If I was. Mod on this site, I too would demand human and animal sacrifices, as I would find them pleasing to me.

I'm not an expert on the Bible, X... so I'm nowhere near qualified to rebuff everything you've put there. I'll just state a couple of things. One, that the Bible isn't meant to be taken 100% literately, but rather interpreted as you yourself alluded to, and two.... there is a historical context about the Bible that cannot be ignored. It's like other documents I argue about throughout the history of mankind that are still in use today. Historical context is another factor that must be taken into consideration. But again, I'm far from knowledgeable about the Bible.

My point was regarding the comparison of cultures and in that sense, no I don't subscribe to the notion that some cultures are better than others. Only individuals within individual cultures can be compared, IMO.

[X]

it seems the Quran allows and even encourages wife beating in its passages. I don't feel high and mighty enough to claim culture superiority over any other cultures... but this is a definite no-no... at least in our eyes. It's eye-opening to see, however, that a majority of Islamic women agree with wife beating if she's caught cheating. It's ok for them, even if it's not ok for us.

Tito, The Koran may well say that, but don't forget the stuff that the Christian Bible says too:

- explicit support for slavery, plus rules saying it's OK to beat them hard enough they are incapacitated for two days.

- blatant sexism. Saying men own women, they should all be virgins until they marry (but men don't). They should be put to death for adultery and premarital sex. If a woman makes a noise while being rated, it proves she agreed to it and should be put to death.

- demanding murder. There are whole lists of people who it is OK to kill. Indeed Christians are told who they should murder.

- saying that handicapped people should be killed early on. If you find an older one, it's a good thing to kill them straight away.

- ethnic cleansing is a good thing because if you murder a whole tribe or race, you can have their land and God will be pleased.

- that animal sacrifice is pleasing to God. That animals have no rights and Man is put on earth to command them all.

- killing and torture of all non-believers is an explicit command from God.

All those things are in the Bible, in great detail. Just like the Koran, the Bible is a book of its time. Christians surely can't ridicule the Koran having things in it that we find outrageous.

The problem is the people who do take these books literally - and let's not forget that there are many Christians who do this as well. Granted, they didn't seem to be blowing people up and beheading them ..... but they certainly did worse in the past.


Also, the majority of Muslim women I know most certainly don't agree with wife beating. They are not crazy! Where do you get the data that says the majority of them agree with it?

If I was. Mod on this site, I too would demand human and animal sacrifices, as I would find them pleasing to me.

Incidentally, did you all know that Jesus drove a Honda, but didn't boast about it or mention it much?

"for I did not speak of my own Accord" John 12:49.



badum-tish, and that is all.

[El Kabong]

Chechnya 'opens first concentration camp for homosexuals' | Daily Mail Online


But this is ok, because #notallmuslims do this.......but yes they will be looking for #allthegays

[Beanz]

Chechnya 'opens first concentration camp for homosexuals' | Daily Mail Online


But this is ok, because #notallmuslims do this.......but yes they will be looking for #allthegays

Horrible isn't it. This is Putin's ally, his lapdog. and yet neither you or Brockton seeme to have any trouble with Trump praising Putin as though he were the model leader


Nothing even remotely like that could happen in a Christian country like America though? Surely not?

ABC News: Hundreds of Christian Anti-Gay 'Conversion Camps' for Kids 'Operating Across the Country' - The New Civil Rights Movement

[Fenster]

Instead of rounding up gays and killing them, the American's con you out of thousands of dollars to cure them.

Some cultures are more shrewd than others.

[brocktonblockbust]

Chechnya 'opens first concentration camp for homosexuals' | Daily Mail Online


But this is ok, because #notallmuslims do this.......but yes they will be looking for #allthegays

#ProtectSharia

IMG_20170323_160756.jpg

[Beanz]

Chechnya 'opens first concentration camp for homosexuals' | Daily Mail OnlineBut this is ok, because #notallmuslims do this.......but yes they will be looking for #allthegays

#ProtectShariaIMG_20170323_160756.jpg

What does passover have to do with defending countries that practice Sharia law? This is something your country does in its long entrenched relationship with the Saudis.

[Dark Lord Al]

So is it right that Chechnya is under muslim rule ? and is it also correct that the leaders of this muslim country are persecuting Gays and killing them ?

Good old islam , remember the liberals will have you believe it isn't about the religion that's the problem.

[Beanz]

So is it right that Chechnya is under muslim rule ? and is it also correct that the leaders of this muslim country are persecuting Gays and killing them ?

Good old islam , remember the liberals will have you believe it isn't about the religion that's the problem.

This is another example of what happens when decent people stand by and put their pockets while others are tyrannized. Kadyraov killed his opponent outside the Kremlin whilst Putin turned a blind eye. Homophobia is alive and well in Russia too where any picture that depicts Putin as a bit fruity or in rainbow colours has now been deemed illegal.

Whilst a lot of people are probably happy but surprised to see you join the LGBT rainbow train your argument is fatally flawed.


The only consistent voice demanding that both America and the UK stop supporting countries that carry out such barbaric practices has been that of what you are calling liberals, and what we in the UK call the left. It is the right that have backed Sharia states and joined with people like the Saudis in Bombing civilians in Yemen and turned a blind eye whilst they whip and then imprison raped women. Don't forget Tillerson the US oil man has already been made a friend of Russia and yet he is the one supposedly negotiating today with Putin, do you really think he is going to upset the applecart? Of course not, the right in control of America right now is enthralled by Putin not appalled.


this is illegal in Russia right now and it won't be long before Trump does something similar