Some cultures are better than others ? True, False, Impossible to answer conclusively

[El Kabong]

it seems the Quran allows and even encourages wife beating in its passages. I don't feel high and mighty enough to claim culture superiority over any other cultures... but this is a definite no-no... at least in our eyes. It's eye-opening to see, however, that a majority of Islamic women agree with wife beating if she's caught cheating. It's ok for them, even if it's not ok for us.

Tito, The Koran may well say that, but don't forget the stuff that the Christian Bible says too:

- explicit support for slavery, plus rules saying it's OK to beat them hard enough they are incapacitated for two days.

- blatant sexism. Saying men own women, they should all be virgins until they marry (but men don't). They should be put to death for adultery and premarital sex. If a woman makes a noise while being rated, it proves she agreed to it and should be put to death.

- demanding murder. There are whole lists of people who it is OK to kill. Indeed Christians are told who they should murder.

- saying that handicapped people should be killed early on. If you find an older one, it's a good thing to kill them straight away.

- ethnic cleansing is a good thing because if you murder a whole tribe or race, you can have their land and God will be pleased.

- that animal sacrifice is pleasing to God. That animals have no rights and Man is put on earth to command them all.

- killing and torture of all non-believers is an explicit command from God.

All those things are in the Bible, in great detail. Just like the Koran, the Bible is a book of its time. Christians surely can't ridicule the Koran having things in it that we find outrageous.

The problem is the people who do take these books literally - and let's not forget that there are many Christians who do this as well. Granted, they didn't seem to be blowing people up and beheading them ..... but they certainly did worse in the past.


Also, the majority of Muslim women I know most certainly don't agree with wife beating. They are not crazy! Where do you get the data that says the majority of them agree with it?

If I was. Mod on this site, I too would demand human and animal sacrifices, as I would find them pleasing to me.

Easy to answer and with one word for Islam and Christianity


ABROGATION

The Quran like the Bible has 2 halves. In the Bible we go from the very strict and judgmental God to the peace, grace, and sacrifice of Jesus. In the Quran on the other hand we go from Muhammad imploring people to submit to Islam (the Mecca sura) to threatening people to submit to Islam by the sword (the Medina sura) and due to the belief of Abrogation the Medina sura is considered more powerful/meaningful since it came later.


But hey, what can ya do?

[Dark Lord Al]

Well I know in my culture I was drinking this tonight.
wine.jpg

[brocktonblockbust]

Is that similar to one of them Pinot Noir Gevrey-Chambertin wines from Cote D'or

[Dark Lord Al]

Is that similar to one of them Pinot Noir Gevrey-Chambertin wines from Cote D'or

Not really Gevrey Chambertin is from Burgundy , This wine is from the Southern Rhone Area.

[Beanz]

it seems the Quran allows and even encourages wife beating in its passages. I don't feel high and mighty enough to claim culture superiority over any other cultures... but this is a definite no-no... at least in our eyes. It's eye-opening to see, however, that a majority of Islamic women agree with wife beating if she's caught cheating. It's ok for them, even if it's not ok for us.

Tito, The Koran may well say that, but don't forget the stuff that the Christian Bible says too:

- explicit support for slavery, plus rules saying it's OK to beat them hard enough they are incapacitated for two days.

- blatant sexism. Saying men own women, they should all be virgins until they marry (but men don't). They should be put to death for adultery and premarital sex. If a woman makes a noise while being rated, it proves she agreed to it and should be put to death.

- demanding murder. There are whole lists of people who it is OK to kill. Indeed Christians are told who they should murder.

- saying that handicapped people should be killed early on. If you find an older one, it's a good thing to kill them straight away.

- ethnic cleansing is a good thing because if you murder a whole tribe or race, you can have their land and God will be pleased.

- that animal sacrifice is pleasing to God. That animals have no rights and Man is put on earth to command them all.

- killing and torture of all non-believers is an explicit command from God.

All those things are in the Bible, in great detail. Just like the Koran, the Bible is a book of its time. Christians surely can't ridicule the Koran having things in it that we find outrageous.

The problem is the people who do take these books literally - and let's not forget that there are many Christians who do this as well. Granted, they didn't seem to be blowing people up and beheading them ..... but they certainly did worse in the past.


Also, the majority of Muslim women I know most certainly don't agree with wife beating. They are not crazy! Where do you get the data that says the majority of them agree with it?

If I was. Mod on this site, I too would demand human and animal sacrifices, as I would find them pleasing to me.

Easy to answer and with one word for Islam and Christianity


ABROGATION

The Quran like the Bible has 2 halves. In the Bible we go from the very strict and judgmental God to the peace, grace, and sacrifice of Jesus. In the Quran on the other hand we go from Muhammad imploring people to submit to Islam (the Mecca sura) to threatening people to submit to Islam by the sword (the Medina sura) and due to the belief of Abrogation the Medina sura is considered more powerful/meaningful since it came later.


But hey, what can ya do?

What you could do is start by using your own standards to examine your own culture. You are correct in pointing out the ridiculousness of abrogation but this is the fatal flaw with most religions. Even your own reading of the Bible shows how deeply ingrained it is in your culture. So for you the Old Testament is that of an strict and Judgmental God and the New Testament is one of peace and grace. This is largely because most Christians have no idea of what they call the Old Testament even means, and the translations they are reading are incredibly inaccurate and clumsy works by people with a vested interest in obscuring the truth. You don't get much more Judgemental than Paul and the Pauline version of Christianity either, so the 'New' Testament itself is not so forgiving as you would have us believe. In fact the flawed, arrogant and incredibly patronising Christian idea of Jesus coming to fulfill the commandments of Gd perfectly and therefore negate the Old Testament, the need for sacrifice, the covenant between Gd and the Jews etc is a classic example of abrogation not being merely and Islamic Idea.

Even on a micro level the ordination of women, the acceptance of Homosexuality, etc shows how Christians are constantly picking and choosing what to update with their faith. This is the fatal flaw. How can a perfect omnipotent Gd gets things wrong? why do humans need to constantly revise what is relevant and not among words supposedly directly coming from him? This to me seems to be incredibly convenient for humans in power to use as a way of controlling other people.


So if like you we are going to judge a culture based upon extremists or people inflicting extreme behavior on to others and using that culture as an excuse we should look at Christianity in the same way as you are looking at Islam ?



400 years of Trans Atlantic Slave Trade that maimed, raped, killed, kidnapped, and enslaved 20 million Africans "heathens" to bring them to Christ
—Genocide of Native Americans under the name of Christ as Manifest Destiny
—Genocide of Australian Aborigines that killed 90% of their population in less than a century, again by Christian Europeans
—Salem Witch Trials
—Spanish Inquisition
—Crusades


ooh no you say...those are in the past


—The Lord's Resistance Army in Uganda that has maimed, raped, & killed up to 100,000 people according to the UN, during the past 15 years, which is far more destructive than ISIS, and they've done so to establish Biblical Law as a self-described Christian organization
—In Central Africa Republic Christian Militias have destroyed every single mosque and the UN reports that Muslims are facing ethnic cleansing, withreports that Christians are cannibalizing Muslims, literally
—In America white supremacists who are self-described Christian are the single largest terror threat to American security, that's according to the FBI and 392 police agencies in a study published last year
—George Bush, a devout Christian, said God told him to invade Iraq, where by some estimates 1 million civilians were killed due to this unjust war

[brocktonblockbust]

[El Kabong]

What you could do is start by using your own standards to examine your own culture. You are correct in pointing out the ridiculousness of abrogation but this is the fatal flaw with most religions. Even your own reading of the Bible shows how deeply ingrained it is in your culture. So for you the Old Testament is that of an strict and Judgmental God and the New Testament is one of peace and grace. This is largely because most Christians have no idea of what they call the Old Testament even means, and the translations they are reading are incredibly inaccurate and clumsy works by people with a vested interest in obscuring the truth. You don't get much more Judgemental than Paul and the Pauline version of Christianity either, so the 'New' Testament itself is not so forgiving as you would have us believe. In fact the flawed, arrogant and incredibly patronising Christian idea of Jesus coming to fulfill the commandments of Gd perfectly and therefore negate the Old Testament, the need for sacrifice, the covenant between Gd and the Jews etc is a classic example of abrogation not being merely and Islamic Idea.

Even on a micro level the ordination of women, the acceptance of Homosexuality, etc shows how Christians are constantly picking and choosing what to update with their faith. This is the fatal flaw. How can a perfect omnipotent Gd gets things wrong? why do humans need to constantly revise what is relevant and not among words supposedly directly coming from him? This to me seems to be incredibly convenient for humans in power to use as a way of controlling other people.


So if like you we are going to judge a culture based upon extremists or people inflicting extreme behavior on to others and using that culture as an excuse we should look at Christianity in the same way as you are looking at Islam ?



400 years of Trans Atlantic Slave Trade that maimed, raped, killed, kidnapped, and enslaved 20 million Africans "heathens" to bring them to Christ
—Genocide of Native Americans under the name of Christ as Manifest Destiny
—Genocide of Australian Aborigines that killed 90% of their population in less than a century, again by Christian Europeans
—Salem Witch Trials
—Spanish Inquisition
—Crusades


ooh no you say...those are in the past


—The Lord's Resistance Army in Uganda that has maimed, raped, & killed up to 100,000 people according to the UN, during the past 15 years, which is far more destructive than ISIS, and they've done so to establish Biblical Law as a self-described Christian organization
—In Central Africa Republic Christian Militias have destroyed every single mosque and the UN reports that Muslims are facing ethnic cleansing, withreports that Christians are cannibalizing Muslims, literally
—In America white supremacists who are self-described Christian are the single largest terror threat to American security, that's according to the FBI and 392 police agencies in a study published last year
—George Bush, a devout Christian, said God told him to invade Iraq, where by some estimates 1 million civilians were killed due to this unjust war

Did I say or even imply that my culture was perfect? No of course not, but the Last puritan of Plymouth is frothing at the mouth to attack my supposed protecting of my culture...being careful to not take a stance here or there, but just take himself out of the situation altogether and play referee.

"In fact the flawed, arrogant and incredibly patronising Christian idea of Jesus coming to fulfill the commandments of Gd perfectly and therefore negate the Old Testament, the need for sacrifice, the covenant between Gd and the Jews etc is a classic example of abrogation not being merely and Islamic Idea."

......Beanz, again the point is Islam gets MORE violent as you read it, The Bible gets LESS violent....Jesus isn't out raping pillaging and murdering the way Muhammad is. I'm sorry that you apparently do not fucking understand or comprehend that or the fucking relevance of that but it's #1 The truth and #2 Very troublesome when it comes to people practicing Islamic Fundamentalism vs Christian Fundamentalism.


Oh no the Trans Atlantic Slave trade!!!!! 400 years....OH NOES.

Arab Slave trade from 7th Century to ......oh it hasn't seemed to end just yet, well it doesn't seem fair to compare and contrast that

The rest of the drivel you peddle out here and attempt to morally grandstand with is fucking pathetic.

"—Genocide of Native Americans under the name of Christ as Manifest Destiny
—Genocide of Australian Aborigines that killed 90% of their population in less than a century, again by Christian Europeans
—Salem Witch Trials
—Spanish Inquisition
—Crusades
"

Those events happened in the PAST

radical Militant Islam is an issue NOW


Beanz the Salem Witch Trials took 20 lives....20......and you're listing that alongside what you deem as genocide.


Also Beanz would you be so kind as to tell me what cultures NEVER had slavery of any form and NEVER held combat in order to expand their borders....would ya do me a kindness and list those cultures please? It is more than a little humorous that the very Natives you whinge about did THE EXACT FUCKING THING you wish to give all the blame to MY culture for and I'm wondering Beanz how you reconcile that? How does that fit in your noggin? That sit well with you? You feel all nice and smug about that do you? And again, MY culture had fuck all to do with the Aborigines....that's another group from England altogether, criminals placed on an island away from her Majesty's sight.

And again....just because in the past my culture has not been perfect...it doesn't make the Radical Militant Islam culture look any better.....yeah Christianity had a reformation and yeah it was ugly at times, BUT everybody dug deep, they got through it and boom here we are in a better day and age for Christians (so long as you're not near any majority Muslim areas).


Here's a neato factoid you may not have thought about....you can build a Mosque in the United States........in Saudi Arabia and Iran, you CANNOT build a Synagogue, you CANNOT build a Church......yes, I stand by my statement, SOME CULTURES ARE BETTER THAN OTHERS....not just in theory, but in fucking practice.

[Beanz]

LYLE




Did I say or even imply that my culture was perfect? No of course not, but the Last puritan of Plymouth is frothing at the mouth to attack my supposed protecting of my culture...being careful to not take a stance here or there, but just take himself out of the situation altogether and play referee.

Frothing at the mouth ? come on man if you are gong to bother even replying then you have to assume that I am not so angry all the time. I am not even remotely angry, why would I be?

I am anything but a puritan and of course in a thread in which I started to examine your assertion I am going to be careful not to show my hand or take a stance. Have you never played poker?

I am open to being persuaded but it looks like your argument is by far the weakest in the thread, and you just like me take a extraordinary long time to make a simple point.

Beanz, again the point is Islam gets MORE violent as you read it, The Bible gets LESS violent....Jesus isn't out raping pillaging and murdering the way Muhammad is. I'm sorry that you apparently do not fucking understand or comprehend that or the fucking relevance of that but it's #1 The truth and #2 Very troublesome when it comes to people practicing Islamic Fundamentalism vs Christian Fundamentalism.

So....are you saying that the Old Testament is not the word of God then? Or did he meet Oprah and have a makeover? Or are you dismissing the Old testament as stories and the accepting the new as fact? Or are you suggesting that I don't know anything about the Judaism, The Bible, Christians or Islam? Or are you just saying that any act of barbarity carried out by Christian fundamentalists is not the same as that carried out by Jewish or Muslim fundamentalists because Christianity despite being used for all kinds of horrendous things is fundamentally better than those others?

It is not surprising that you have once again resorted to misrepresentation in order to hide from ugly truths. This is how you operate. i am not angry about it and it is hardly surprising seeing as you have had this as your modus operandi from day one here.

so I post



400 years of Trans Atlantic Slave Trade that maimed, raped, killed, kidnapped, and enslaved 20 million Africans "heathens" to bring them to Christ

and you conveniently dismiss it with

Oh no the Trans Atlantic Slave trade!!!!! 400 years....OH NOES.

No acknowledgment that it involved millions in the name of Christianity. Your culture. No mention of maiming, raping and kidnapping in the name of your culture. Forced to work in cotton, sugar and tobacco fields on which your culture was built.

Also it is not true that I am "morally grandstanding" at all. You are the one insisting that your culture is better than the ones you raided and stole from so inexpertly. I am not suggesting that Judaism is better than Christianity, merely that virtually no modern Christians have even a simple understanding of the Hebrew faith on which not only their entire religion, but much of their legal, moral and other systems are based. I would argue that Christianity is an immature and far more violent oppressive culture than that of Jews who for much of their early existence were enslaved and so have always been less likely to enslave others.



Again another straw man argument you suggested that I was comparing the Salem Witch trials to genocide. Never happened you again are making it up



finally

Those events happened in the PAST

radical Militant Islam is an issue NOW


so exactly why did you fail to respond to any of the current examples I gave ?


The Lord's Resistance Army in Uganda that has maimed, raped, & killed up to 100,000 people according to the UN, during the past 15 years, which is far more destructive than ISIS, and they've done so to establish Biblical Law as a self-described Christian organization
—In Central Africa Republic Christian Militias have destroyed every single mosque and the UN reports that Muslims are facing ethnic cleansing, withreports that Christians are cannibalizing Muslims, literally


Is it because these people are not American? I always thought that the Christian Church was global? or could it be that you are just failing to acknowledge that these "self-described" Christians are no different to the "self described" Muslims who suggest acting like Barbarians is somehow an expression of their culture?

[Beanz]

also Synagogues in Iran

• Abdullah Zadeh Synagogue (Tehran)
• Abrishami Synagogue (Tehran)
• Aziz Khan Synagogue (Tehran)
• Bagh Saba Synagogue (Tehran)
• Danial Synagogue (Tehran)
• Darvazeh Dolat Synagogue (Tehran)
• Ettefagh Synagogue (Tehran)
• Ettehad Synagogue (Tehran)
• Ezra Yaghoub Synagogue (Tehran)
• Fakhrabad Synagogue (Tehran)
• Gisha Synagogue (Tehran)
• Gorgan Synagogue (Tehran)
• Haim Synagogue (Tehran)
• Hakim Asher Synagogue (Tehran)
• HaRambam Synagogue (Rambam Synagogue) (Tehran)
• Fakhrabad Synagogue (Tehran)
• Kohan Synagogue (Tehran)
• Kourosh Synagogue (Tehran)
• Khorasaniha Synagogue (Tehran)
• Levian Synagogue (Tehran)
• Mahariv Synagogue (Tehran)
• Molla Hanina Synagogue (Tehran)
• Nosrat Synagogue (Tehran)
• Orsharga Synagogue (Tehran)
• Pol-e-Choobi Synagogue (Tehran)
• Rafi Nia Synagogue (Tehran)
• Rah-e Danesh Synagogue (Tehran)
• Seid Khandan Synagogue (Tehran)
• Synagogue of Gisha (Tehran)
• Tafian (Hakim)(pesyan) Synagogue (Tehran)
• Tarasht Synagogue (Tehran)
• Yusef Abad Synagogue (Tehran)
• Yousefzadeh Synagogue (Tehran)
• Zargarian Synagogue (Tehran)

Shiraz[edit]

• Kenisa-ye Kohanim (Shiraz)
• Kenisa-ye Molla (Shiraz)
• Kenisa-ye Molla Mishi (Shiraz)
• Kenisa-ye Molla Owram (Shiraz)
• Kenisa-ye Rabbizadeh (Shiraz)
• Kenisa-ye Shokr (Shiraz)
• Khorasaniha Synagogue (Shiraz)
• Kenisa-ye Bozorg (Shiraz)

[Beanz]

Isfahan[edit]

• Kenisa-ye Bozorg (Mirakhor's kenisa) (Isfahan)
• Kenisa-ye Molla Rabbi (Isfahan)
• Kenisa-ye Sang-bast (Isfahan)
• Mullah Jacob Synagogue (Isfahan)
• Mullah Neissan Synagogue (Isfahan)
• Kenisa-ye Keter David (Isfahan)

Yazd[edit]

• Kenisa-ye Kamal (Yazd)
• Molla Agha Baba Synagogue (Yazd)
• Mizan Synagogue (Yazd)
• Hadash Synagogue(Yazd)
• Hakham Synagogue(Yazd)
• Eliahu Hanavi Synagogue(Yazd)
• Eli Synagogue(Yazd)
• Molla Shlomo Synagogue(Yazd)

Sanandaj[edit]

• Kenisa-ye Bozorg (Sanandaj)
• Kenisa-ye Koochik (Sanandaj)

Rafsanjan[edit]

• Kenisa-ye Ghadim (Rafsanjan)
• New Synagogue (Rafsanjan)

Kerman[edit]

• Kerman Synagogue (Kerman)

Bushehr[edit]

• Kooti Synagogue (Bushehr)

Hamadan[edit]

• Kenisa-ye Bozorg (Hamadan)

Tabriz[edit]

• Kenisa-ye Koochik (Tabriz)

Urmia[edit]

• Daneshgah-e-Kalimi (Urmia)

[brocktonblockbust]

How dare you compare the Torah to an Oprah Winfrey makeover you deceiver. Armenians rule Iran from Shiraz to Isfahan to Urumia to Tabriz to Tehran. Tanha dalili ke toonestam zang-ra beshnavam inbood, ke mehmanha dar khaneman dar goosheman dad nazadand.

[El Kabong]

Oh alrighty Beanz, I will HAPPILY castrate your pathetic non-responses, stepasides, and whataboutery....HAPPILY

I'll address the Synagogue and Church issue first....oh so they're allowed in IRAN (but not Saudi Arabia......ooooooh)....my mistake to list Iran alongside Saudi Arabia, however this still makes me 50% correct....lest you would like to list all those plentiful churches and synagogues in Saudi Arabia.....you gonna do that? You going to get to listing those Hmmm? I'll wait.....what, you mean there are NONE?

So....are you saying that the Old Testament is not the word of God then? Or did he meet Oprah and have a makeover? Or are you dismissing the Old testament as stories and the accepting the new as fact? Or are you suggesting that I don't know anything about the Judaism, The Bible, Christians or Islam? Or are you just saying that any act of barbarity carried out by Christian fundamentalists is not the same as that carried out by Jewish or Muslim fundamentalists because Christianity despite being used for all kinds of horrendous things is fundamentally better than those others?

Beanz, I do believe you miss the entire fucking point of what I am saying when I post that and I'd HOPE you were not missing the point on purpose, but YES, yes, YOU are THAT kind of poster. So Allow me to break this down for you really slow, so that a short buser like yourself can comprehend it. This is after an ELEMENTARY style Google search 'Old Testament vs New Testament' = The Old Testament records the giving of God's Law, and the New Testament shows how Jesus the Messiah fulfilled that Law (Matthew 5:17; Hebrews 10:9). In the Old Testament, God's dealings are mainly with His chosen people, the Jews; in the New Testament, God's dealings are mainly with His church (Matthew 16:1.

Now Beanz, that's not the point of why I bring up the Old Testament vs the New Testament, that point would be ABROGATION = the repeal or abolition of a law, right, or agreement or as defined in Islam: Naskh (نسخ) is an Arabic word usually translated as "abrogation"; It is a term used in Islamic legal exegesis for seemingly contradictory material within, or between, the two primary sources of Islamic law: the Quran and the Sunna. ... Neither the Quran nor the sayings of Muhammad state which verses stand abrogated.

Which means quite simply 'If Muhammad ever ends up contradicting himself then follow the last thing Muhammad does and not the first thing which he contradicts'....and THAT means the Meccan sura talking about peace and love and what not, yeah forget that shit follow the Medina sura which is all about lopping people's heads off and punishing the infidels.

Jesus covered the whole "how do I deal with my enemies" thing with "38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also.
41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.
42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.
— Matthew 5:38–5:42 KJV

And

27 But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,
28 Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.
29 And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloke forbid not to take thy coat also.
30 Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.
31 And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.

— Luke 6:27–31 KJV

Do you understand the difference between Jesus saying those things and Muhammad's "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing... but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun(the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)" (Translation is from the Noble Quran) The verse prior to this (190) refers to "fighting for the cause of Allah those who fight you" Quran (2:191-193)


DO.....YOU...UNDER....STAND......THE......DIFFEREN CE?

400 years of Trans Atlantic Slave Trade that maimed, raped, killed, kidnapped, and enslaved 20 million Africans "heathens" to bring them to Christ

and you conveniently dismiss it with

Oh no the Trans Atlantic Slave trade!!!!! 400 years....OH NOES.

Oh I'm sorry Beanz I didn't know that you expected me to be some 530 or so years old and hold sway over the societal norms of the day....MEA MAXIMA CULPA Beanz.

Yes, the slave trade was bad, but again not as bad as the Arab slave trade which still very much exists (you do know that there are degrees of things right, do you understand that concept?). Also the descendants of slaves in the United States have fared on the whole far better than Africans...we don't get hit with many famines here in the United States, but whatever, I'm sure you'll see this still as some callous response but I really don't give a fuck because I unlike you do not look at history through the prism of the 21st century because I am not a retard.

No acknowledgment that it involved millions in the name of Christianity. Your culture. No mention of maiming, raping and kidnapping in the name of your culture. Forced to work in cotton, sugar and tobacco fields on which your culture was built.

In the name of Christianity? Oh is THAT what it was in the name of, I thought it was nation building in the name of "I'm the biggest and best King because I've got the most money and land and baddest armies and navy" kind of thing, but I guess SURE yes it was ALL 100% Christianity and you know it's got to be the EXACT same Christianity which I practice dontcha know . Well OK Beanz, I accept the faults of Christianity which occurred during the Colonial period which resulted in the creation of the greatest nation in the World.

....you focus an awful lot on African slaves and ya didn't much mention the Irish ones....I mean sure the actual word "kidnap" comes from that era and refers to children abducted and sold into indentured servitude (ie rent-a-slaves) who were worth LESS than the African slaves...but hey I don't wish to disturb you whilst atop your moral high ground

Again another straw man argument you suggested that I was comparing the Salem Witch trials to genocide. Never happened you again are making it up

Oh ok, so I'me reading THIS list which YOU posted wrong?

400 years of Trans Atlantic Slave Trade that maimed, raped, killed, kidnapped, and enslaved 20 million Africans "heathens" to bring them to Christ
—Genocide of Native Americans under the name of Christ as Manifest Destiny
—Genocide of Australian Aborigines that killed 90% of their population in less than a century, again by Christian Europeans
—Salem Witch Trials
—Spanish Inquisition
—Crusades

....I'm reading that wrong? I mean I didn't put 'Salem Witch Trials' in that list.... @brocktonblockbust did YOU put 'Salem Witch Trials' in there? @TitoFan did YOU put 'Salem Witch Trials' in there?

I'm going to find out who the fuck put that in there because I'll be damned if Beanz is going to take the blame for this when he didn't put that in there!!!! Somebody is going to fucking pay! I'm really upset right now and I request that any MOD get in here and help us get to the bottom of this right now!

It's ok Beanz, we're going to find out who did it and we're going to fix them up real good ok pal?

so exactly why did you fail to respond to any of the current examples I gave ?

....Ummm because I figured you might have a list which included MY culture.

The Lord's Resistance Army in Uganda that has maimed, raped, & killed up to 100,000 people according to the UN, during the past 15 years, which is far more destructive than ISIS, and they've done so to establish Biblical Law as a self-described Christian organization
—In Central Africa Republic Christian Militias have destroyed every single mosque and the UN reports that Muslims are facing ethnic cleansing, withreports that Christians are cannibalizing Muslims, literally


Is it because these people are not American? I always thought that the Christian Church was global? or could it be that you are just failing to acknowledge that these "self-described" Christians are no different to the "self described" Muslims who suggest acting like Barbarians is somehow an expression of their culture?

Oh Uganda, that's just right down the road a piece from my home town.....
Central Africa.....is that near Durham

I'm having a hard time finding what branch of Christianity these folks ascribe to....is it Methodist? Is it Baptist? Nondenominational? Catholic? Orthodox? No, no, they are something called "heterodox" which is defined as such: "Heterodoxy in a religious sense means "any opinions or doctrines at variance with an official or orthodox position".[1] Under this definition, heterodoxy is similar to unorthodoxy, while the adjective "heterodox" could be applied to a dissident.".......so they DON'T follow the typical Christian orthodox......but you're saying they're of MY culture......ah yes, you know us Southerners share quite a lot of similarities with those in Central Africa and Uganda....silly me




Would you like some more Beanz?

[TitoFan]

—In America white supremacists who are self-described Christian are the single largest terror threat to American security, that's according to the FBI and 392 police agencies in a study published last year
—George Bush, a devout Christian, said God told him to invade Iraq, where by some estimates 1 million civilians were killed due to this unjust war

The key words you used were "self-described". White supremacists can call themselves whatever the hell they want. They do not represent the values or principles of real Christians. This should be a totally obvious fact, but for some reason I had to say it anyway. If George Bush really said that, then it just strengthens my opinion of him as a first-class moron. George Bush could barely speak intelligibly in public... and his assertion that God told him ANYTHING is about as reliable as "your check is in the mail."

It's ok to make an argument. But grasping at straws is often seen as evidence of a failing argument.

[El Kabong]

@TitoFan, surely you don't believe that some cultures are better than others


I mean after all, aren't ALL cultures equal? Sure 12 years old is the age of consent in Mexico and SURE there's no minimum age at which young girls are lawfully married off in Saudi Arabia and in 2010, the Saudi Human Rights Commission, a government-affiliated group, hired a lawyer to help a 12-year old divorce her 80-year old husband.....BUT aren't all cultures the same at the end of the day?


I mean don't 80 year olds in America go around marrying up MULTIPLE women at the same time and also marrying some 12 year olds as well?








Was that wrong?

[Beanz]

—In America white supremacists who are self-described Christian are the single largest terror threat to American security, that's according to the FBI and 392 police agencies in a study published last year
—George Bush, a devout Christian, said God told him to invade Iraq, where by some estimates 1 million civilians were killed due to this unjust war

The key words you used were "self-described". White supremacists can call themselves whatever the hell they want. They do not represent the values or principles of real Christians. This should be a totally obvious fact, but for some reason I had to say it anyway. If George Bush really said that, then it just strengthens my opinion of him as a first-class moron. George Bush could barely speak intelligibly in public... and his assertion that God told him ANYTHING is about as reliable as "your check is in the mail."

It's ok to make an argument. But grasping at straws is often seen as evidence of a failing argument.

I agree that grasping at straws is evidence of a failing argument. The whole premise of Lyle's argument though is a classic straw man argument. It precedes on the notion that extreme proponents of violence in Islam are evidence of an entire culture being inferior to another. It matters not to him that nobody is arguing that these extremists do not exist, he just wants to infer that is what people are saying in order to shout louder which to him is the same as winning an argument. In fact in the terrorists thread he took me saying that the police could find no evidence to suggest the person involved had anything to do with Isis or Daesh as evidence of me making excuses for a terrorist. So go figure that one. Everything to him is about winning and yet he cannot construct an argument with any real skill or aptitude and that is why he has to repost other people's opinion for several years in a thread that nobody but himself is reading. (not this one).

So for Lyle it matters not that extremists hijack Christianity to do unspeakable deeds because he is not really interested in debating facts only espousing his own facts which are superior to everyone else's. Self -described is irrelevant, extremist Muslim preachers are self- described Muslims and also first class morons. The idea that Gd told anybody anything is about as reliable as "your cheque is in the mail" but that is the basis of most religions.

It is also quite noteworthy that despite not agreeing with Lyle's assertion that not only have you not voted but you would rather pick holes in my post. I understand that it is difficult to see from inside but Christianity has been used and continues too be used daily to justify acts of murderous barbarity.