Kell Brook v Errol Spence Jr - 27/5/17 Sheffield UK

[Primo Carnera]

Right, so here goes !
"Sound bites? Thin air? Keep it real?

For starters I CLEARLY stated the qualifier for Khan's opposition "regardless of the quality or physical state they were in" - hence my statistic fully takes into account that some champions weren't in their prime or great. Secondly - I asked if anyone can give British fighters with better credentials? It's a question, nobody is yet to answer it."
There's the Sound bite! You can't use the World champions he's beat to prove your point and then put "regardless of the quality or physical state they were in"

Brook, who I and everyone else will obviously rate in the top three Brits at worst, has faced 4 "world" champions going 3 wins, 1 loss.

Golovkin - P4P, no.1 middleweight, prime.
Porter - top ranked welter, prime.
Senchenko - former title holder.
Ndou - former title holder, past his pomp.

The point is, even though I believe Brook will smash Khan into a million bits, and currently is better than him P4P, Brook's overall level of opposition is not as deep as Khan's. That's a frigging fact whether you hate Khan or really, really hate him.

Khan in the past six years has faced

Zab - former P4P, two division title holder, undisputed welter champ, past his pomp. WHO DOESN'T BEAT ZAB? ANYONE WHO IS ANYONE BEAT ZAB.UNINSPIRING.
Peterson - two divison titlist, current welterweight titlist . AND LOST
Garcia - two divison titlist, current top welter.AND LOST
Diaz - former titlist. WAY PAST HIS BEST,FIGHTING AT A CAREER HIGH WEIGHT AND STILL GAVE KHAN TROUBLE
Collazo - former titlist. WHO HADNT FOUGHT ANYONE OF NOTE FOR A COUPLE YEARS, NOR SINCE
Alexander - two division titlist. ON THE SLIDE NO LONGER AT THE TOP LEVEL,BULLIED AND RUINED BY PORTER.
Algieri - former titlist. HERE'S THE THIN AIR. SO HE WON A WORLD TITLE, LOOK WHAT MANNY DID TO HIM , ATG OR NOT. AND HE FUCKING STRUGGLED AGAINST HIM.
Canelo - P4P, two division titlist, current lineal middleweight champion. AND WAS BRUTALLY KO'd JUST LIKE EVERYONE THOUGHT HE WOULD.

Right, so that's "what the fuck Khan has done" in the past 6 years. He got knocked out twice by current P4P prime fighters, he lost a disputed decision to a current "world" champion and beat five former "world" champions who were in solid form at the time.
Totally disagree. I've given my reasons above.

Give me 5 P4P Brits and i'll rate the worth of Khan's form against theirs.
Here's the Get real!
p4p isn't about what you've done in the past, if it was Roy Jones Jr. Would still be in the top 10! It's about the here and now, and Khan has done fuck all recently to even be considered. In the past, obviously yes, but in a time where the UK Has double figures World champions, he's nowhere n



((on a side note - Kotelnik was an excellent boxer, he beat Maidana, was robbed twice against M'baye, arguably robbed against Alexander and arguably robbed against Witter. And Algieri getting knocked down 50 times against Pac is utterly irrelevant, Pac's performance has no bearing on Khan's, Pac is an all-time great Khan is not))"
Kotelnik may have been a decent fighter, but he was widely recognised at the time as being the easiest route to a World title.
Ps. Excuse all the red and capitals, I'm not trying to be a smarmy cunt, it's just to differentiate and make it look clearer.

[Fenster]

@Primo Carnera - your entire reply has NOTHING to do with the original question you posed or the discussion I entered. The question was - where does Khan sit P4P in relation with other British fighters, not whether or not Khan is crap, which is all you've offered. However, i'll entertain your replies...

There's the Sound bite! You can't use the World champions he's beat to prove your point and then put "regardless of the quality or physical state they were in"

I haven't tried to prove a point, you've given me nothing to debate let alone prove. I made a statement based on fact. I qualified the statement precisely because the bare stat isn't definitive about a fighters quality/standing/abilty.

Zab - WHO DOESN'T BEAT ZAB? ANYONE WHO IS ANYONE BEAT ZAB.UNINSPIRING.
Peterson - two divison titlist, current welterweight titlist . AND LOST
Garcia - two divison titlist, current top welter.AND LOST
Diaz - former titlist. WAY PAST HIS BEST,FIGHTING AT A CAREER HIGH WEIGHT AND STILL GAVE KHAN TROUBLE
Collazo - former titlist. WHO HADNT FOUGHT ANYONE OF NOTE FOR A COUPLE YEARS, NOR SINCE
Alexander - two division titlist. ON THE SLIDE NO LONGER AT THE TOP LEVEL,BULLIED AND RUINED BY PORTER.
Algieri - former titlist. HERE'S THE THIN AIR. SO HE WON A WORLD TITLE, LOOK WHAT MANNY DID TO HIM , ATG OR NOT. AND HE FUCKING STRUGGLED AGAINST HIM.
Canelo - AND WAS BRUTALLY KO'd JUST LIKE EVERYONE THOUGHT HE WOULD.

Khan is crap which inturn makes his competiton crap. However, your reasoning is not just hypocritical it's deeply flawed.

If Zab Judah is crap - easy to beat - then what makes Tyzyu, Cotto, Mayweather etc top fighters? He had lost against all-time greats, he was still a highly ranked world-class fighter when Khan beat him regardless of how crap you believe him to be.

You're quick to mention Diaz was fighting above his optimum weight yet completely ignore that Khan was at a natural weight disadvantage against Canelo, or that he drew with top ranked Shawn Porter right before losing to Khan.

Collazo pulled the upset by knocking out Victor Ortiz right before losing to Khan, after that he gave top ranked Keith Thurman a scare before pulling yet another upset by knocking out prospect Sammy Vasquez. You sure do set the bar high if these fights are "not of any note."

"Look what Manny did to Aligeri?" Manny is one of the greatest fighters that has ever lived. On one hand you're saying Khan is crap, on the other you're comparing his winning performances with an all-time great. Doesn't make sense.

p4p isn't about what you've done in the past, if it was Roy Jones Jr. Would still be in the top 10! It's about the here and now, and Khan has done fuck all recently to even be considered. In the past, obviously yes, but in a time where the UK Has double figures World champions, he's nowhere n

You asked what Khan has done in the past 7 years, I answered. You haven't even offered what Brits are higher P4P. So, if you want to get back to the original question that YOU asked, please list, with reasoning, who has better credentials than Khan? I am not interested in whether or not YOU think Khan is good or not, it goes without saying what you think. However, to make an unbiased comparison we have to know who we're judging Khan with. And Roy Jones is an awful example, he's no longer P4P because he's old, shot and hasn't fought at top level for a million years. Khan is still in his pomp, independently ranked among the best welterweights in the world (Ring Mag) and challenged one of the best fighters in the world in his very last fight.

[Alpha]

Khan shouldn't be rated at 147 anymore he hasn't fought there since May 2015. His inactivity is also a problem as of next month he will have been out over a year. With that last fight being a KO loss.

[Primo Carnera]

@Primo Carnera - your entire reply has NOTHING to do with the original question you posed or the discussion I entered. The question was - where does Khan sit P4P in relation with other British fighters, not whether or not Khan is crap, which is all you've offered. However, i'll entertain your replies...

There's the Sound bite! You can't use the World champions he's beat to prove your point and then put "regardless of the quality or physical state they were in"

I haven't tried to prove a point, you've given me nothing to debate let alone prove. I made a statement based on fact. I qualified the statement precisely because the bare stat isn't definitive about a fighters quality/standing/abilty.

Zab - WHO DOESN'T BEAT ZAB? ANYONE WHO IS ANYONE BEAT ZAB.UNINSPIRING.
Peterson - two divison titlist, current welterweight titlist . AND LOST
Garcia - two divison titlist, current top welter.AND LOST
Diaz - former titlist. WAY PAST HIS BEST,FIGHTING AT A CAREER HIGH WEIGHT AND STILL GAVE KHAN TROUBLE
Collazo - former titlist. WHO HADNT FOUGHT ANYONE OF NOTE FOR A COUPLE YEARS, NOR SINCE
Alexander - two division titlist. ON THE SLIDE NO LONGER AT THE TOP LEVEL,BULLIED AND RUINED BY PORTER.
Algieri - former titlist. HERE'S THE THIN AIR. SO HE WON A WORLD TITLE, LOOK WHAT MANNY DID TO HIM , ATG OR NOT. AND HE FUCKING STRUGGLED AGAINST HIM.
Canelo - AND WAS BRUTALLY KO'd JUST LIKE EVERYONE THOUGHT HE WOULD.

Khan is crap which inturn makes his competiton crap. However, your reasoning is not just hypocritical it's deeply flawed.

If Zab Judah is crap - easy to beat - then what makes Tyzyu, Cotto, Mayweather etc top fighters? He had lost against all-time greats, he was still a highly ranked world-class fighter when Khan beat him regardless of how crap you believe him to be.

You're quick to mention Diaz was fighting above his optimum weight yet completely ignore that Khan was at a natural weight disadvantage against Canelo, or that he drew with top ranked Shawn Porter right before losing to Khan.

Collazo pulled the upset by knocking out Victor Ortiz right before losing to Khan, after that he gave top ranked Keith Thurman a scare before pulling yet another upset by knocking out prospect Sammy Vasquez. You sure do set the bar high if these fights are "not of any note."

"Look what Manny did to Aligeri?" Manny is one of the greatest fighters that has ever lived. On one hand you're saying Khan is crap, on the other you're comparing his winning performances with an all-time great. Doesn't make sense.

p4p isn't about what you've done in the past, if it was Roy Jones Jr. Would still be in the top 10! It's about the here and now, and Khan has done fuck all recently to even be considered. In the past, obviously yes, but in a time where the UK Has double figures World champions, he's nowhere n

You asked what Khan has done in the past 7 years, I answered. You haven't even offered what Brits are higher P4P. So, if you want to get back to the original question that YOU asked, please list, with reasoning, who has better credentials than Khan? I am not interested in whether or not YOU think Khan is good or not, it goes without saying what you think. However, to make an unbiased comparison we have to know who we're judging Khan with. And Roy Jones is an awful example, he's no longer P4P because he's old, shot and hasn't fought at top level for a million years. Khan is still in his pomp, independently ranked among the best welterweights in the world (Ring Mag) and challenged one of the best fighters in the world in his very last fight.

Fair Play Fenster , on this subject you're talking absolute shite! I'm not clever enough to break posts down into partial quotes like you , I'm not gonna bother wasting my breath answering each part because it's horseshit.
but you want me to put who is currently above him p4p, so I will.
Current Frampton - 2 weight champion and in the top 2 or 3 in either division (not 3 million years ago but now.)
Current Degale - World Champion ,Widely recognized as top 2 or 3 in his division.
Current Brook - Same as Degale
Current Joshua - Same as Degale
Current Selby - Same as Degale
Current Khan - hasn't fought a title fight in his division for years let alone win one , hasn't beaten anyone of note for years, isn't seen by anyone as being in the top 2 or 3 in his division , and as for trying to score points because he got spakoed by Canelo in a circus match up is fucking laughable. (notice I never mentioned Brook's fight with GGG for the same reason, Fairness, balance and consistency you see. )
and BTW, the reasons you give for RJJ not being included are exactly the same as Khan . Khan "still in his pomp!!" hahahahaha. please tell me you don't believe this shit you're writing.
like I said before , I'm disappointed because normally you talk so much more sense.

[Fenster]

@Primo Carnera

I don't think there's any evidence to suggest Khan is past his prime, let alone in the same boat as a 48-year-old that was considered past his prime over a decade ago, hasn't had a title shot in over a decade (four recognised alphabets) and hasn't been rated anywhere near the elite of his chosen division in over a decade.

Roy fought a 50-year-old bare knuckle gypo in his last fight, Khan fought a 25-year-old P4P ranked fighter. Chalk and cheese. Apples and oranges.

Right, lets get on to the list as you've finally offered something for me to semi-peruse/look at. Your reasoning is based on current form, so lets take the last two fights of each listed, you can't get more current than that. Happy?

Frampton - lost to Leo Santa Cruz, before that beat Cruz

DeGale - drew with Badou Jack, beat Porky Medina

Brook - lost to Golovkin, beat Bizier

Joshua - beat Molina and Brezeale

Selby - beat Andoni Gago and Eric Hunter

Khan - lost to Canelo, beat Chris Algieri

Of the six fighters two have faced top 10 rated P4P fighters - Brook and Khan.
Of the six fighters four have faced a top three ranked fighter in their respective division - Brook, Khan, Frampton and DeGale.
Of the six fighters four have faced a current/former "world" champion - Brook (1), Khan (2), Frampton (we'll count Cruz as 2) and DeGale (1).
Of the six fighters two have been the clear underdog going into the contest - Brook and Khan

Conclusion - Joshua and Selby's competition is extremely weak in comparison with the other four. They haven't faced an independently top 10 ranked competitor from their own division let alone a "world" champion or recognised P4P elite. However, they're the only fighters that remain unbeaten.

Brook and Khan have faced the single best fighters but both lost. However, both had good success, highlighting their world-class skills until their expected demise, Brook fared better than Khan against a far more dangerous, superior fighter. Frampton has had the toughest back-to-back competition, DeGale never lost to his biggest rival in the division which was bolstered by a win. Khan's win over Algieri is far more noteworthy than Brook's over Bizier, so even though I loathe to rank Khan in front of Kell - as I believe Kell would kill him - the data says I must.

1. Frampton
2. DeGale
3. Khan
4. Brook
5. AJ
6. Selby

Fact.

[Primo Carnera]

@Primo Carnera

I don't think there's any evidence to suggest Khan is past his prime, let alone in the same boat as a 48-year-old that was considered past his prime over a decade ago, hasn't had a title shot in over a decade (four recognised alphabets) and hasn't been rated anywhere near the elite of his chosen division in over a decade.

Roy fought a 50-year-old bare knuckle gypo in his last fight, Khan fought a 25-year-old P4P ranked fighter. Chalk and cheese. Apples and oranges.

Right, lets get on to the list as you've finally offered something for me to semi-peruse/look at. Your reasoning is based on current form, so lets take the last two fights of each listed, you can't get more current than that. Happy?

Frampton - lost to Leo Santa Cruz, before that beat Cruz

DeGale - drew with Badou Jack, beat Porky Medina

Brook - lost to Golovkin, beat Bizier

Joshua - beat Molina and Brezeale

Selby - beat Andoni Gago and Eric Hunter

Khan - lost to Canelo, beat Chris Algieri

Of the six fighters two have faced top 10 rated P4P fighters - Brook and Khan.
Of the six fighters four have faced a top three ranked fighter in their respective division - Brook, Khan, Frampton and DeGale.
Of the six fighters four have faced a current/former "world" champion - Brook (1), Khan (2), Frampton (we'll count Cruz as 2) and DeGale (1).
Of the six fighters two have been the clear underdog going into the contest - Brook and Khan

Conclusion - Joshua and Selby's competition is extremely weak in comparison with the other four. They haven't faced an independently top 10 ranked competitor from their own division let alone a "world" champion or recognised P4P elite. However, they're the only fighters that remain unbeaten.

Brook and Khan have faced the single best fighters but both lost. However, both had good success, highlighting their world-class skills until their expected demise, Brook fared better than Khan against a far more dangerous, superior fighter. Frampton has had the toughest back-to-back competition, DeGale never lost to his biggest rival in the division which was bolstered by a win. Khan's win over Algieri is far more noteworthy than Brook's over Bizier, so even though I loathe to rank Khan in front of Kell - as I believe Kell would kill him - the data says I must.

1. Frampton
2. DeGale
3. Khan
4. Brook
5. AJ
6. Selby

Fact.

I'm not going to keep on, but what is it about "Lies, Damn Lies and statistics?" You can make stats work however you want to , but the fact remains that not only is Khan not in the top end of his division (whatever that is), he has no desire to try to prove he is. He's been mandatory for Garcia's old belt forever and never wanted it , he had the chance of a title fight with Brook and never wanted it. He fought Canelo in a Circus fight for money KNOWING he would lose, but it would still leave him with paydays to pursue. He's chased, Floyd, Manny and even MacGregor for fucks sake for the exact same reasons. A loss would still leave him another payday AND he'd still have another payday.
He's in no rush either.its been nearly a year since Canelo and absolutely no sign of who he's fighting next apart from Manny comedy show with the fake sheikh money!
These are not the actions of someone in his prime, these are the actions of someone who is looking to cash out, and surely somebody who knows as much about Boxing as you can see that, because nearly everybody else can. FACT!