Some cultures are better than others ? True, False, Impossible to answer conclusively

[TitoFan]

Let me just add...... I will say that IMHO the extremists of the Islamic culture/religion are a billion times worse than the extremists of just about any other culture. Strapping on a bomb and blowing up dozens or even hundreds of people is beyond despicable. What makes it even worse is that the perpetrators die and cannot be subjected to the most inhumane torture possible. Hmm... I just read what I wrote, and who knows... maybe I belong in another culture.

[El Kabong]

Lyle, is it that difficult to admit that your opinion may be colored by the fact that you've never known any other way of life? Do you really feel that most decent Muslims living over there are looking at the U.S. and saying... "Geeez, I'd really rather live other there." Do you really think there isn't the slightest possibility whatsoever that some decent, law-abiding Muslims in that part of the world are fully aware of the differences in culture and say... "All things considered, I like our culture better." See... you're perfectly within your bounds (and in fact should be expected) to like your own culture better. It's what you're used to.

Let's look this way instead of that way. Let's imagine a perfectly decent, law-abiding Muslim looking at the news and saying stuff like:


"I can't believe the way they allow people to belong to hate organizations like the Skinheads, Neo-Nazis, KKK, White Supremacists.... and they can say and do whatever they like."

"I can't believe black people are treated so badly by law enforcement over there, to the point where black people find it necessary to form protest organizations and take to the streets."

"I can't believe people's rights are protected to the extreme that they can say whatever the hell they want about anything and anybody."



Now.... isn't it possible that one of those people looking in this direction, when asked the same question, might answer that their own culture is better than ours? Once again, there's extremists in every culture. They give their own culture a bad name, and makes it look bad in the eyes of people from other cultures.

Sure, let's go with that TitoFan I mean I have studied, I have worked in situations where the "American culture" is not the dominant culture, but sure, let's just benefit of the doubt say "Yes @TitoFan of course".

If they aren't over there saying "Geeez, I'd really rather live other there."....why is there a migration crisis coming FROM the Middle East & North African nations TO Western industrialized nations? Is it just jobs? Is it just money? Is it just getting away from war? I mean if any of those things are the cause then people would have moved long ago because things haven't changed much in the Middle East.

They may very well like their culture, that's not the point, the point is their culture is allowed and even welcomed over here ***CAVEAT*** so long as it doesn't impede on the rights of other people here.

Yes....skinheads, neo-Nazis, KKK, and White Supremacists are SUCH the problem here...no, no, it's ok, I'm accepting your premise THOSE AREN'T GENERALLY ACCEPTABLE GROUPS CULTURALLY SPEAKING....but ok so they say that, what of it, what are the stats, the numbers behind those groups in violent crime? Better or worse than Militant Islamists? Nationally or globally, either or hell do BOTH....yeah I understand "It's impossible to tell"

Black people are ALWAYS murdered by the police....ALWAYS....again it's not something the average person jumps up and cheers for unlike say being an Islamic Extremist in Palestine where you'd get benefits paid to you or if you were a suicide bomber your FAMILY would be paid for your sacrifice to Allah Peace Be upon Him....do police get that? Where is Darren Wilson these days? I'm fairly certain he is not "living peacefully" in Ferguson, MO much less being given money by the federal government.

Yup, freedom of speech is so horrible and awful and EVERYONE has it, EVERYONE because we're all equal....what a horrible and racist VILE thing to say


Sure it's possible to think your culture is the best having lived in it and only in it, but that's not the crux of my argument. My argument is: although no culture is perfect, some cultures are better than others. I didn't say American culture is 100% the greatest hands down, I didn't say Islamic cultures are 100% the worst hands down, I said SOME cultures are better than OTHERS. When I look at American culture, there's good (freedoms, liberty, the ability to choose your path in life) and there's bad (I guess in this case I'd say poor care for veterans, homelessness, a booming prison population, an obsession with illegal drugs using/selling/policing) in Islamic cultures there are good things (great faith in the afterlife, a focus on family, generosity in terms of charity) and there's bad (suicide bombings, inbreeding, hatred of gays to the point where they're murdered when found out, etc).

You take the good, you take the bad.....you take them BOTH.......and there you have, The Facts of Life TitoFan, The facts of Life.

Let me just add...... I will say that IMHO the extremists of the Islamic culture/religion are a billion times worse than the extremists of just about any other culture. Strapping on a bomb and blowing up dozens or even hundreds of people is beyond despicable. What makes it even worse is that the perpetrators die and cannot be subjected to the most inhumane torture possible. Hmm... I just read what I wrote, and who knows... maybe I belong in another culture.

Hol up, hol up, hol......UP


You telling me that you are able to tell that 1 group is better than another group based on their actions?!?!?!


Whaaaaaaaaaa?



...... it's like I've read somebody else saying something like that, like some cultures are better than others or some shit.....but hell man, to ME to ME it's IMPOSSIBLE to tell

[TitoFan]

If they aren't over there saying "Geeez, I'd really rather live other there."....why is there a migration crisis coming FROM the Middle East & North African nations TO Western industrialized nations? Is it just jobs? Is it just money? Is it just getting away from war? I mean if any of those things are the cause then people would have moved long ago because things haven't changed much in the Middle East.

You make some good points, Lyle..... but this isn't one of them. You're saying it's not "just jobs", not "just money", not "getting away from war", because people would've moved long ago since "things haven't changed much in the Middle East." So is it to flee to a "better culture" then? Has THAT changed? If anything, jobs, money, and war are far more fluid things than culture in a society.... and would tend to favor my point that people of other cultures probably see their own as better.

Yes....skinheads, neo-Nazis, KKK, and White Supremacists are SUCH the problem here...no, no, it's ok, I'm accepting your premise THOSE AREN'T GENERALLY ACCEPTABLE GROUPS CULTURALLY SPEAKING....but ok so they say that, what of it, what are the stats, the numbers behind those groups in violent crime? Better or worse than Militant Islamists? Nationally or globally, either or hell do BOTH....yeah I understand "It's impossible to tell"

My "premise" ISN'T that it's "SUCH a problem", Lyle. My premise is that in our culture, those groups are tolerated and given the right to exist freely. The only intervention is when a crime is committed.... sort of a "close the barn door after the horse is gone" type of approach. Don't look at it from your biased point of view, which is understandable given that you've lived all your life in this culture. Look at it the way maybe another culture would look at it. Freedom-shmeedom. These groups preach hate, divisiveness, and superiority of one group over others. They scheme, plot, and thanks to the famous 2nd Amendment (another point where other cultures might take exception).... are ever ready to take matters into their own hands.

Black people are ALWAYS murdered by the police....ALWAYS....again it's not something the average person jumps up and cheers for unlike say being an Islamic Extremist in Palestine where you'd get benefits paid to you or if you were a suicide bomber your FAMILY would be paid for your sacrifice to Allah Peace Be upon Him....do police get that? Where is Darren Wilson these days? I'm fairly certain he is not "living peacefully" in Ferguson, MO much less being given money by the federal government.

Here's where I'll surprise you and agree you've got a good point. (My willingness to see others' points of view is astounding, I know). I was taken aback by that, and looked it up (not that I don't trust you ). Yeah..... that's a major arguing point against that particular culture, since this is basically government-endorsed. All I'll say is that Palestine-Israeli hate is up there in stratospheric levels somewhere.

Let me just add...... I will say that IMHO the extremists of the Islamic culture/religion are a billion times worse than the extremists of just about any other culture. Strapping on a bomb and blowing up dozens or even hundreds of people is beyond despicable. What makes it even worse is that the perpetrators die and cannot be subjected to the most inhumane torture possible. Hmm... I just read what I wrote, and who knows... maybe I belong in another culture.

Hol up, hol up, hol......UP


You telling me that you are able to tell that 1 group is better than another group based on their actions?!?!?!


Whaaaaaaaaaa?



...... it's like I've read somebody else saying something like that, like some cultures are better than others or some shit.....but hell man, to ME to ME it's IMPOSSIBLE to tell

I see nothing wrong or contradictory about my statement. I specifically said I compare Islamic extremists to extremists in other cultures, and find the Islamic extremists a million times worse. I make that comparison based on specific actions, which get splashed across the headlines. The closest example to that in Western civilization would be McVeigh, who brought down a whole building based on his hate.

But this is different than comparing cultures themselves. Every culture has decent, upstanding citizens, who truly believe their beliefs and customs are the right way to live. I still hesitate to use the word "better" to compare cultures. The day I live in each culture for a year or so, and experience what they experience..... THEN.... maybe I'd feel qualified to use that word. Till then I'll just say "different."

[brocktonblockbust]

[El Kabong]

See I enjoy debating @TitoFan because if I do him the courtesy of accepting the premise of HIS points, he returns the favor in kind and we end up actually having a DEBATE....it would be nice if somebody (cough, cough) took notes on that. Also thank you TitoFan for joining me in such a debate, we haven't always seen eye to eye but we've learned from each other and we've had some good solid friendly debates and I am pleased to continue this.

You make some good points, Lyle..... but this isn't one of them. You're saying it's not "just jobs", not "just money", not "getting away from war", because people would've moved long ago since "things haven't changed much in the Middle East." So is it to flee to a "better culture" then? Has THAT changed? If anything, jobs, money, and war are far more fluid things than culture in a society.... and would tend to favor my point that people of other cultures probably see their own as better.

Thank you, you make some solid points as well. My point in saying "there's massive migration from Islamic nations West" is that those people wouldn't move to somewhere they think they'd be worse off. People are migrating for a reason, and if the West is offering better lives for those people why is that the case? Why indeed is that the case when SOME of the countries these guys (and it's pretty much all MEN too which is telling) are fleeing are blessed with brilliant natural resources and SHOULD be providing great opportunities as far as work and money goes, but they aren't for some reason. Other places are just shitholes, Somalia is a shithole and people leave there because it's a shithole.....but when they want to hold on tight to the ways of Somalia in terms of religious practices etc that's not good...there's no place for FGM in America for example, there's no place for Sharia in America, the laws of America are the laws of the land, not Sharia.

They can see their own cultures as better I am sure they do, but if one is to look objectively, just break down the pros and cons of each culture you'll see the side which errs on the side of liberty, individual rights, is the Western culture and maybe it's just me, but I think erring on that side is best, perhaps I'm biased....maybe you want to win me over to the other side if so make the case of why the Islamic culture of whatever nation is better than the United States, I'm willing to read about it if nothing else.

My "premise" ISN'T that it's "SUCH a problem", Lyle. My premise is that in our culture, those groups are tolerated and given the right to exist freely. The only intervention is when a crime is committed.... sort of a "close the barn door after the horse is gone" type of approach. Don't look at it from your biased point of view, which is understandable given that you've lived all your life in this culture. Look at it the way maybe another culture would look at it. Freedom-shmeedom. These groups preach hate, divisiveness, and superiority of one group over others. They scheme, plot, and thanks to the famous 2nd Amendment (another point where other cultures might take exception).... are ever ready to take matters into their own hands.

"those groups are tolerated"....Are they? Where are they tolerated? It's the law they are allowed to freely express themselves soooo yeah there's that but given that I'm also free to express MY views as are others and those typically drown out the "Neo-Nazis" which are apparently a HUGE problem these days (not because you brought them up, but because every fucking lefty brings them up like they're on every God damned street corner now'a'days).

Another shot at the 2nd Amendment from you .....yeah I'm sure a culture that allows for and ACCEPTS beating women, tossing gays off of rooftops, women's testimony being worth half a man's, a woman needing 4 eye witnesses willing to testify that she was raped, and that allows and ACCEPTS killing (anyone even other Muslims) in the name of Allah would have quite the problem with people being allowed to defend themselves.

Here's where I'll surprise you and agree you've got a good point. (My willingness to see others' points of view is astounding, I know). I was taken aback by that, and looked it up (not that I don't trust you ). Yeah..... that's a major arguing point against that particular culture, since this is basically government-endorsed. All I'll say is that Palestine-Israeli hate is up there in stratospheric levels somewhere.

AH HA! I gotcha with one! BOOYAH!

I see nothing wrong or contradictory about my statement. I specifically said I compare Islamic extremists to extremists in other cultures, and find the Islamic extremists a million times worse. I make that comparison based on specific actions, which get splashed across the headlines. The closest example to that in Western civilization would be McVeigh, who brought down a whole building based on his hate.

But this is different than comparing cultures themselves. Every culture has decent, upstanding citizens, who truly believe their beliefs and customs are the right way to live. I still hesitate to use the word "better" to compare cultures. The day I live in each culture for a year or so, and experience what they experience..... THEN.... maybe I'd feel qualified to use that word. Till then I'll just say "different."

Yeah there's Timothy McVeigh and hell throw in Eric Robert Rudolph and that nut who flew a plane into the IRS building....now weigh those guys against the Jihadis: 9/11, 7/7 bombings, Bataclan, Nice truck attack, Pulse Nightclub, the Manchester bombing, Mumbai attack....here's a list of the last 30 days where there have been 167 Islamic Extremist terrorist attacks in 24 countries which killed 1038 people and injured 1050 https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/a...aspx?Yr=Last30

I'm not saying, nor have I ever said (and I believe that you personally understand this from me better than others) that America is perfect or American culture is perfect...I'm saying more "In order to form a more perfect Union", the country was built with eyes on the future, adapting, adjusting, honing itself (with the help of the citizenry) to work towards perfection knowing it's unachievable but hoping to reach a state of excellence where everyone is greeted on and acknowledged as being on the same plane of existence where we can agree or disagree and still live together peacefully.....and those ideals, the fact that we're even attempting to go that route, that is where I say the "better" happens....Shia and Sunni, they don't want to live together and they share the same religion, they want to massacre each other and leave only 1....we're not of that mindset although looking at our armed forces and the military strength we have we could EASILY do that and enforce it on the entire world. We choose not to.....America could have chosen to be an empire, we chose not to be, it is important that this came from our collective free will. But maybe I'm off target here, I think it's important, but maybe to others it isn't.

[El Kabong]

In the news today

https://www.welt.de/newsticker/news1...rbruecken.html


A 27 year old Syrian "Refugee" stabbed a Red Cross Therapist to death and a 41 year old Afghani "Refugee" stabbed a lil 5 year old boy to death

http://www.donaukurier.de/nachrichte...155371,3412757




good times eh?

[El Kabong]

Outrage as Saudi Arabia's football team SNUBS a minute's silence for London Bridge terror victims ahead of World Cup qualifier against Australia because 'it is not in keeping with their culture'
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...n-victims.html


Some cultures.....Some cultuuuuures.....are beeeeetter than OTHERS!

[Master]

Yes their culture is so bad we continue to sell weapons to them.

[El Kabong]

Yes their culture is so bad we continue to sell weapons to them.

I do not make the calls on US foreign policy....perhaps you need a lesson in United States civics, but you really assign me waaaaaay too much power Master


If I was in charge, the Saudis would be getting weapons alright, they'd be feeling the full effects of them

[Master]

Yes their culture is so bad we continue to sell weapons to them.

I do not make the calls on US foreign policy....perhaps you need a lesson in United States civics, but you really assign me waaaaaay too much power Master


If I was in charge, the Saudis would be getting weapons alright, they'd be feeling the full effects of them

I said "we" not you personally but the UK and West.

[El Kabong]

Yes their culture is so bad we continue to sell weapons to them.

I do not make the calls on US foreign policy....perhaps you need a lesson in United States civics, but you really assign me waaaaaay too much power Master


If I was in charge, the Saudis would be getting weapons alright, they'd be feeling the full effects of them

I said "we" not you personally but the UK and West.

So then "we" agree that the foreign policies of both of our nations ain't flawless but our cultures are better?

[brocktonblockbust]

Donald Trump kicks ass

[El Kabong]

Islamic State: Indonesian mosques accused of supporting radical group's ideology
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-07-3...58?pfmredir=sm


But wait......there's more





And as always there are links in the description of the video but yes yes I know "It's not ALL ______" and "You're cherry picking things that are bad"



My response to such remarks will be as always "Blow it out your ass"

[brocktonblockbust]

Horrific people and should be sniped

[Beanz]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7800986.html


Top of the food chain? 100 years behind most place more like