Pac vs Horn..do we care?

[Ron Swanson]

Here's the thing. I have read multiple people having Horn winning. I've seen multiple draws too. There are definitely more who have Pac winning, but that's why this isn't a robbery. There are obviously tons of boxing fans who have scored many fights and saw Horn do well.

Most of the people who have Pac winning were celebrities who rarely watch boxing. I had not problem with the decision and I wouldn't have minded if Pac won. Close fight either way. The thing that is bad for boxing wasn't the decision but that too many boxing personalities (Atlas and fat dan in particular) are making such a big deal about it. They should have been level headed and said it was a fine decision even though they disagreed.

Agreed. There is a cancer in the sport where there are so many awful reactions. Like Screamin A Smith, this would never happen in the UFC. Not true at all. Bad decisions happen in sports with judging. The difference is in the UFC Dana White bitches about the decision and says there will be an immediate rematch. Problem solved. Here there is a rematch clause. If Pac wants it he can get his revenge. Nothing to be in an uproar about. But boxing fans don't seem to know any other way to be anymore.

You can see it so clearly in the whole Floyd/Conor bank job. UFC fans are excited. Boxing fans are furious.

Boycott this, boycott that. Perhaps just have an honest dialogue rather than getting so worked up. Call a bank job a bank job. Call a wrong decision a wrong decision. No need for the drama of calling a disputable decision a robbery. That only lessens the value when real robberies happen "yeah, that's boxing, always robberies". It's just not true. And in this case it's not true. I had Pac winning and I would be hard pressed to find 7 rounds I could give to Horn. But that doesn't mean there aren't 7 that could be.

We just got a much better fight than 9 out of 10 of us expected. And on basically free tv. Enjoy it.

[Spicoli]

Here's the thing. I have read multiple people having Horn winning. I've seen multiple draws too. There are definitely more who have Pac winning, but that's why this isn't a robbery. There are obviously tons of boxing fans who have scored many fights and saw Horn do well.

Most of the people who have Pac winning were celebrities who rarely watch boxing. I had not problem with the decision and I wouldn't have minded if Pac won. Close fight either way. The thing that is bad for boxing wasn't the decision but that too many boxing personalities (Atlas and fat dan in particular) are making such a big deal about it. They should have been level headed and said it was a fine decision even though they disagreed.

Agreed. There is a cancer in the sport where there are so many awful reactions. Like Screamin A Smith, this would never happen in the UFC. Not true at all. Bad decisions happen in sports with judging. The difference is in the UFC Dana White bitches about the decision and says there will be an immediate rematch. Problem solved. Here there is a rematch clause. If Pac wants it he can get his revenge. Nothing to be in an uproar about. But boxing fans don't seem to know any other way to be anymore.

You can see it so clearly in the whole Floyd/Conor bank job. UFC fans are excited. Boxing fans are furious.

Boycott this, boycott that. Perhaps just have an honest dialogue rather than getting so worked up. Call a bank job a bank job. Call a wrong decision a wrong decision. No need for the drama of calling a disputable decision a robbery. That only lessens the value when real robberies happen "yeah, that's boxing, always robberies". It's just not true. And in this case it's not true. I had Pac winning and I would be hard pressed to find 7 rounds I could give to Horn. But that doesn't mean there aren't 7 that could be.

We just got a much better fight than 9 out of 10 of us expected. And on basically free tv. Enjoy it.

I think the biggest mistake was having Stephen A there as a town crier in the first place. They didn't put him there for his boxing knowledge and experience, which isn't the case in Teddy or Fat Dan, but for his cross over network face and ability to frankly talk the loudest shat. Really nothing more. Teddy has always called what he perceives terrible decisions on live tv right up to the point of confronting State commissioners and airing out the errors of appointed judges and blown calls etc. and he's done it both pro and con involving the very same fighters. Now the term 'robbery' is thrown around far too often just as 'great' is but what we need fewer of are network lapdogs who try to walk a balance beam of 'well I dunno, it could have gone either way I guess so yeh' instead of taking definitive stands to what they watched and experienced live. There are robberies that occur and there are fights that hinge on 1 point either way but personally I cannot see either case here but I saw a terrible decision. Atlas doesn't give two shats how many retweets or 'likes' he gets.

[walrus]

Atlas actually makes a fight less enjoyable for me. I'm am depressed over the decision of this fight. I feel better having said it.

[Ron Swanson]

Here's the thing. I have read multiple people having Horn winning. I've seen multiple draws too. There are definitely more who have Pac winning, but that's why this isn't a robbery. There are obviously tons of boxing fans who have scored many fights and saw Horn do well.

Most of the people who have Pac winning were celebrities who rarely watch boxing. I had not problem with the decision and I wouldn't have minded if Pac won. Close fight either way. The thing that is bad for boxing wasn't the decision but that too many boxing personalities (Atlas and fat dan in particular) are making such a big deal about it. They should have been level headed and said it was a fine decision even though they disagreed.

Agreed. There is a cancer in the sport where there are so many awful reactions. Like Screamin A Smith, this would never happen in the UFC. Not true at all. Bad decisions happen in sports with judging. The difference is in the UFC Dana White bitches about the decision and says there will be an immediate rematch. Problem solved. Here there is a rematch clause. If Pac wants it he can get his revenge. Nothing to be in an uproar about. But boxing fans don't seem to know any other way to be anymore.

You can see it so clearly in the whole Floyd/Conor bank job. UFC fans are excited. Boxing fans are furious.

Boycott this, boycott that. Perhaps just have an honest dialogue rather than getting so worked up. Call a bank job a bank job. Call a wrong decision a wrong decision. No need for the drama of calling a disputable decision a robbery. That only lessens the value when real robberies happen "yeah, that's boxing, always robberies". It's just not true. And in this case it's not true. I had Pac winning and I would be hard pressed to find 7 rounds I could give to Horn. But that doesn't mean there aren't 7 that could be.

We just got a much better fight than 9 out of 10 of us expected. And on basically free tv. Enjoy it.

I think the biggest mistake was having Stephen A there as a town crier in the first place. They didn't put him there for his boxing knowledge and experience, which isn't the case in Teddy or Fat Dan, but for his cross over network face and ability to frankly talk the loudest shat. Really nothing more. Teddy has always called what he perceives terrible decisions on live tv right up to the point of confronting State commissioners and airing out the errors of appointed judges and blown calls etc. and he's done it both pro and con involving the very same fighters. Now the term 'robbery' is thrown around far too often just as 'great' is but what we need fewer of are network lapdogs who try to walk a balance beam of 'well I dunno, it could have gone either way I guess so yeh' instead of taking definitive stands to what they watched and experienced live. There are robberies that occur and there are fights that hinge on 1 point either way but personally I cannot see either case here but I saw a terrible decision. Atlas doesn't give two shats how many retweets or 'likes' he gets.

Atlas set a stage for outrage. Giving Pac 5 of the first 6 is every bit as bad as giving Horn the decision. His card was actually why I said before the cards came out "this could go either way" it wasn't that I thought Horn won. I had Pac. It was that it was a fight where you could see how the judges could think Horn won.

I don't believe Atlas says anything he doesn't believe which I appreciate about him. But he builds a narrative and convinces himself of it. You can see that when he says a fighter should do....when it doesn't work he doesn't acknowledge it. When it does work, see, like I said, bang. The way the guy thinks he gave Pac 5 of the first 6 so Pac won 5 of the first 6. If his first half of his card was better he wouldn't have needed his later outrage.

When I score a fight I put the score and by any close rounds I put SR for swing round. In this fight I had 4. Usually it is one or 2. So I knew how I had it and the possible score. Anything outside that is BS. Like the 117 score, BS. But, 115-113 fell right on the edge if every swing round went to Horn it was possible. Doesn't make it right. But it isn't outright corruption.

[Ron Swanson]

If anyone wants a good laugh go check out boxrec P4P list. I promise you won't be disappointed. For that matter check out the WW ratings too. Their algorithm is either broken or was just terrible to begin with

[palmerq]

If anyone wants a good laugh go check out boxrec P4P list. I promise you won't be disappointed. For that matter check out the WW ratings too. Their algorithm is either broken or was just terrible to begin with

boxrec rankings are brilliant, your best off looking at the all time heavyweight rankings... antonio tarver is 17th :S

[Master]

[imp]

No one seems to mention how many times manny was missing shots.

Horn was not afraid.

Crawford missed out on a massive payday over this.

[Spicoli]

Here's the thing. I have read multiple people having Horn winning. I've seen multiple draws too. There are definitely more who have Pac winning, but that's why this isn't a robbery. There are obviously tons of boxing fans who have scored many fights and saw Horn do well.

Most of the people who have Pac winning were celebrities who rarely watch boxing. I had not problem with the decision and I wouldn't have minded if Pac won. Close fight either way. The thing that is bad for boxing wasn't the decision but that too many boxing personalities (Atlas and fat dan in particular) are making such a big deal about it. They should have been level headed and said it was a fine decision even though they disagreed.

Agreed. There is a cancer in the sport where there are so many awful reactions. Like Screamin A Smith, this would never happen in the UFC. Not true at all. Bad decisions happen in sports with judging. The difference is in the UFC Dana White bitches about the decision and says there will be an immediate rematch. Problem solved. Here there is a rematch clause. If Pac wants it he can get his revenge. Nothing to be in an uproar about. But boxing fans don't seem to know any other way to be anymore.

You can see it so clearly in the whole Floyd/Conor bank job. UFC fans are excited. Boxing fans are furious.

Boycott this, boycott that. Perhaps just have an honest dialogue rather than getting so worked up. Call a bank job a bank job. Call a wrong decision a wrong decision. No need for the drama of calling a disputable decision a robbery. That only lessens the value when real robberies happen "yeah, that's boxing, always robberies". It's just not true. And in this case it's not true. I had Pac winning and I would be hard pressed to find 7 rounds I could give to Horn. But that doesn't mean there aren't 7 that could be.

We just got a much better fight than 9 out of 10 of us expected. And on basically free tv. Enjoy it.

I think the biggest mistake was having Stephen A there as a town crier in the first place. They didn't put him there for his boxing knowledge and experience, which isn't the case in Teddy or Fat Dan, but for his cross over network face and ability to frankly talk the loudest shat. Really nothing more. Teddy has always called what he perceives terrible decisions on live tv right up to the point of confronting State commissioners and airing out the errors of appointed judges and blown calls etc. and he's done it both pro and con involving the very same fighters. Now the term 'robbery' is thrown around far too often just as 'great' is but what we need fewer of are network lapdogs who try to walk a balance beam of 'well I dunno, it could have gone either way I guess so yeh' instead of taking definitive stands to what they watched and experienced live. There are robberies that occur and there are fights that hinge on 1 point either way but personally I cannot see either case here but I saw a terrible decision. Atlas doesn't give two shats how many retweets or 'likes' he gets.

Atlas set a stage for outrage. Giving Pac 5 of the first 6 is every bit as bad as giving Horn the decision. His card was actually why I said before the cards came out "this could go either way" it wasn't that I thought Horn won. I had Pac. It was that it was a fight where you could see how the judges could think Horn won.

I don't believe Atlas says anything he doesn't believe which I appreciate about him. But he builds a narrative and convinces himself of it. You can see that when he says a fighter should do....when it doesn't work he doesn't acknowledge it. When it does work, see, like I said, bang. The way the guy thinks he gave Pac 5 of the first 6 so Pac won 5 of the first 6. If his first half of his card was better he wouldn't have needed his later outrage.

When I score a fight I put the score and by any close rounds I put SR for swing round. In this fight I had 4. Usually it is one or 2. So I knew how I had it and the possible score. Anything outside that is BS. Like the 117 score, BS. But, 115-113 fell right on the edge if every swing round went to Horn it was possible. Doesn't make it right. But it isn't outright corruption.

I don't think he set a stage really. He actually gave 1st to Horn and was agreeing with Bradley about him setting pace but needing to maintain. He just scored it the way he saw it and credited the short sharp counters by Manny as Horn became more frontal. Hell he even called Manny out on feeling concern and the one calling the Doctor over with a bowed head for cut. I've never bought that judges are sitting there looking over the shoulders of announcers for pointers. I actually had it 4-2 Manny after 6. Good to keep track of close rounds but ultimately if a round is really that close when scoring it to give it an asterisk, wouldn't it make more sense and more accurate to score it even? I loth even rounds but that's just me, just think there is some distinction between two boxers the majority of the time but of course we also see rounds that are just dead air and little action. I really do get the feeling Arum cashed Manny out as he losses nothing with Manny losing to a very beatable new trinket holder and a Manny who doesn't look to have options but to stick with shady ol Bob. Not saying there was some grand conspiracy council for this specific fight but there are calculations every money hungry promoter makes and Atlas in bigger picture calling boxing corrupt is just saying what each and every one of us has felt or witnessed at some point.

[Ron Swanson]

A team Pacquiao members says who he blames
https://youtu.be/bIPo09driJo

[THE THIRD MAN]

Here's the thing. I have read multiple people having Horn winning. I've seen multiple draws too. There are definitely more who have Pac winning, but that's why this isn't a robbery. There are obviously tons of boxing fans who have scored many fights and saw Horn do well.

Most of the people who have Pac winning were celebrities who rarely watch boxing. I had not problem with the decision and I wouldn't have minded if Pac won. Close fight either way. The thing that is bad for boxing wasn't the decision but that too many boxing personalities (Atlas and fat dan in particular) are making such a big deal about it. They should have been level headed and said it was a fine decision even though they disagreed.

Agreed. There is a cancer in the sport where there are so many awful reactions. Like Screamin A Smith, this would never happen in the UFC. Not true at all. Bad decisions happen in sports with judging. The difference is in the UFC Dana White bitches about the decision and says there will be an immediate rematch. Problem solved. Here there is a rematch clause. If Pac wants it he can get his revenge. Nothing to be in an uproar about. But boxing fans don't seem to know any other way to be anymore.

You can see it so clearly in the whole Floyd/Conor bank job. UFC fans are excited. Boxing fans are furious.

Boycott this, boycott that. Perhaps just have an honest dialogue rather than getting so worked up. Call a bank job a bank job. Call a wrong decision a wrong decision. No need for the drama of calling a disputable decision a robbery. That only lessens the value when real robberies happen "yeah, that's boxing, always robberies". It's just not true. And in this case it's not true. I had Pac winning and I would be hard pressed to find 7 rounds I could give to Horn. But that doesn't mean there aren't 7 that could be.

We just got a much better fight than 9 out of 10 of us expected. And on basically free tv. Enjoy it.

I think the biggest mistake was having Stephen A there as a town crier in the first place. They didn't put him there for his boxing knowledge and experience, which isn't the case in Teddy or Fat Dan, but for his cross over network face and ability to frankly talk the loudest shat. Really nothing more. Teddy has always called what he perceives terrible decisions on live tv right up to the point of confronting State commissioners and airing out the errors of appointed judges and blown calls etc. and he's done it both pro and con involving the very same fighters. Now the term 'robbery' is thrown around far too often just as 'great' is but what we need fewer of are network lapdogs who try to walk a balance beam of 'well I dunno, it could have gone either way I guess so yeh' instead of taking definitive stands to what they watched and experienced live. There are robberies that occur and there are fights that hinge on 1 point either way but personally I cannot see either case here but I saw a terrible decision. Atlas doesn't give two shats how many retweets or 'likes' he gets.

Atlas set a stage for outrage. Giving Pac 5 of the first 6 is every bit as bad as giving Horn the decision. His card was actually why I said before the cards came out "this could go either way" it wasn't that I thought Horn won. I had Pac. It was that it was a fight where you could see how the judges could think Horn won.

I don't believe Atlas says anything he doesn't believe which I appreciate about him. But he builds a narrative and convinces himself of it. You can see that when he says a fighter should do....when it doesn't work he doesn't acknowledge it. When it does work, see, like I said, bang. The way the guy thinks he gave Pac 5 of the first 6 so Pac won 5 of the first 6. If his first half of his card was better he wouldn't have needed his later outrage.

When I score a fight I put the score and by any close rounds I put SR for swing round. In this fight I had 4. Usually it is one or 2. So I knew how I had it and the possible score. Anything outside that is BS. Like the 117 score, BS. But, 115-113 fell right on the edge if every swing round went to Horn it was possible. Doesn't make it right. But it isn't outright corruption.

Atlas hated Horn before the fight, he hated him after Round 1 and he hated him even more after the fight. Giving Pacman 5 of the first six rounds was ridiculous. Teddy was anxious that Horn might cause the upset, he was almost willing Manny to victory. He gave Horn cudos for being tough and game, but that was all. The fight was in the balance come round 9 and Pacman had a huge round, but did NOT score the knockdown necessary that probably would've convinced the referee to stop the fight. The Ref actually goes to Horn's corner and told him “YOU’VE had enough. Show me something in this round or I’m stopping the fight.” Knowing the fight is close he allowed one more round for Horn to show him something and Horn did exactly that by winning round 10. What does Teddy Atlas want from these guys? It was a close fight and Pacman failed to go on with it after his explosive Round 9. This was not the Pacquaio of 2008/09 who destroyed De La Hoya, knocked out Hatton and punished Miguel Cotto. This is 8 years later and Manny can't finish off his laundry these days let alone knock anybody out! The 117 score is where all the anger lies, but 115-113 is actually where i had it. I'm an Aussie so it's easy to criticize me for bias, but i didn't give Horn a hope in hell in this fight, but i knew after just 3 rounds Manny was going the distance or at least deep into this fight! That idiot Stephen A Smith should be fired and seek medical assistance for mental health issues.

[Ron Swanson]

And since Pac team members blame Bob, he gets in on the action blaming Roach and the who corner
http://www.boxingscene.com/arum-rips...g-ball--118182

[THE THIRD MAN]

First of all Stephen A Smith requires immediate psychiatric evaluation, his ranting and raving was borderline insanity. He was wrong on every count. Teddy Atlas was against Horn from the outset, he wants to see the Pacquiao of 2009 and that ship has long since sailed. Pacman is 38 and he has been through some wars, it's really over for him. I shudder to think what Errol Spence jr would do to him let alone Horn. I really don't understand all the fuss? Atlas is pissed off because he knows a Spence V Pacman fight is the bigger draw card, but Manny isn't going to beat Spence or Thurmann, not now, not at age 38. Sure, let's see a rematch with Manny and Horn, but if Manny couldn't put Horn away in round 9 i don't see him putting him away in fight number 2? Pacman has gone 8 years without a KO! Then what?