Who's The Best

[GaMo]

He definitely didn't clean out 160, 168 or Heavyweight
But he beat the best at 168 (Toney) and the best at 160 (Hopkins)
Guys like Eubank and Benn never seemed in a rush to fight him
Ottke and Calzaghe never left home. At 175 Jones was the man
So much so that I think he'd have an easy night with Andre Ward.

Roy never left home either (forget the excuses, I know them all, just stating a fact). The only reason he had the IBF/WBA titles at LH was because Michalczewski was stripped after beating Hill. The Ring changed their rules to gift/promote Roy.

So unless you believe Americans should get special dispensation for being American Roy should have travelled to challenge the true champ - Michalczewski.

Fair point but like I said, Germany was corrupt back then
Extremely bad judging and unprofessional refereeing
Meant that Jones would have to have scored a knockout to win.

Just look at Sven Ottke's unbeaten title reign as an example

[Fenster]

He definitely didn't clean out 160, 168 or Heavyweight
But he beat the best at 168 (Toney) and the best at 160 (Hopkins)
Guys like Eubank and Benn never seemed in a rush to fight him
Ottke and Calzaghe never left home. At 175 Jones was the man
So much so that I think he'd have an easy night with Andre Ward.

Roy never left home either (forget the excuses, I know them all, just stating a fact). The only reason he had the IBF/WBA titles at LH was because Michalczewski was stripped after beating Hill. The Ring changed their rules to gift/promote Roy.

So unless you believe Americans should get special dispensation for being American Roy should have travelled to challenge the true champ - Michalczewski.

Fair point but like I said, Germany was corrupt back then
Extremely bad judging and unprofessional refereeing
Meant that Jones would have to have scored a knockout to win.

Just look at Sven Ottke's unbeaten title reign as an example

I've seen a few Ottke "robberies" that weren't robberies, they were close/debatable decisions that he had every right to win. People claim "robbery" about disputed decisions week in week out, especially when they haven't seen the fights they're talking about.

Foreign fighters in America claim it's corrupt/inept when they lose too.

[GaMo]

Leonard is leading this poll but isn't surprising
But you could argue that he lost to Hagler (I had it a draw)
And that he lost the return with Hearns (I think he did)
So he could actually be 3-3 against Hagler, Hearns and Duran.

[Spicoli]

Leonard benefited and thrived in a legendary era, cliché but he clashed with like minded greats and that tips it for me. Mayweather became more of a chorographer in career and actual bouts sometimes felt secondary especially after Hatton and wtf retirement. Look only couple weeks ago. Tremendous boxer but a piss attitude and hardly pushed beyond 'just getting the w' at least to me. Somewhere along the line we started hearing..mainly in mma friendly lead up and post Mcgregor..oh he's the best boxer ever and pointing to being 50-0. Roy was a reflex phenome and superb athlete but as has been mentioned he really did have a silver platter and a very very cushy network contract at the time. They basically rotated some very thin 'mandatories' sprinkled in with an early version of Hopkins, a Toney who looked and acted like he was psyched out before the bell even rang and a Virgil Hill. Those were top notch wins and he embarrassed Toney and Toney deserved it but where Jones holds those as 'best' wins they don't tend to be blemishes for a Toney or a Hopkins. Not really. The did very well improved afterwards, specifically Hopkins. He beat good fighter for sure, Griffin, Harding, Tate, and Johnson. Jones had company at 168 and frankly he had zero interest in cleaning house. For one he didn't have to and hindsight being 20-20 so many now say 'well he would have cruised Benn or Eubank or Michalczewski. I'm not so easily convinced and we'll never know. There was noooo chance HBO was going to do business with Showtime for fans to see either. To some degree I may hold him still fighting against him. It's farcical and damn dangerous. Then again a shot ghost of Leonard was being ko'd by Camacho so there's that .

[GaMo]

Leonard benefited and thrived in a legendary era, cliché but he clashed with like minded greats and that tips it for me.

Leonard will win this poll, boxing fans are very nostaligic
in reality he would lose to both jones and mayweather by some margin

As I said, you could argue that he lost to Hagler and Hearns (the return)
So his record against the big three could actually be 3 wins and 3 defeats.

I believe that Hagler is very overrated. He couldn't stop Duran over 15 rounds
And Duran was a blown up lightweight. He lost to Leonard who was really a welterweight
(who had not fought in almost three years) and he never moved up to 175
He could have fought Matthew Saad Muhammad, Dwight Muhammad Qawi
Or Michael Spinks but instead he waited for the smaller men to move up
And then struggled with them when they finally did fight him.

Roy was a reflex phenome and superb athlete but as has been mentioned he really did have a silver platter and a very very cushy network contract at the time

Yeah, Roy did fight his fair share of bums to be fair
And HBO were happy for him to do that unfortunately.
It’s a shame he didn’t stay at heavyweight after he beat Ruiz
He could have fought Byrd, Holyfield, Tyson or Toney
Those would have been huge fights for him at the time
I believe a fight with Byrd would’ve been a unification fight.

so many now say 'well he would have cruised Benn or Eubank or Michalczewski. I'm not so easily convinced and we'll never know.

Well, Eubank never chased big fights and was happy to stay at home
How many American fighters did Eubank actually fight?
Benn said he was happy being second best to Roy Jones
Benn has some decent wins but let’s be honest he wasn’t an elite fighter
He was like the black British version of Arturo Gatti.
Jones should have fought Michalchewski for sure but where?
Neither man wanted to travel so both are to blame for it not happening.

[Spicoli]

Leonard benefited and thrived in a legendary era, cliché but he clashed with like minded greats and that tips it for me.

Leonard will win this poll, boxing fans are very nostaligic
in reality he would lose to both jones and mayweather by some margin

As I said, you could argue that he lost to Hagler and Hearns (the return)
So his record against the big three could actually be 3 wins and 3 defeats.

I believe that Hagler is very overrated. He couldn't stop Duran over 15 rounds
And Duran was a blown up lightweight. He lost to Leonard who was really a welterweight
(who had not fought in almost three years) and he never moved up to 175
He could have fought Matthew Saad Muhammad, Dwight Muhammad Qawi
Or Michael Spinks but instead he waited for the smaller men to move up
And then struggled with them when they finally did fight him.

Roy was a reflex phenome and superb athlete but as has been mentioned he really did have a silver platter and a very very cushy network contract at the time

Yeah, Roy did fight his fair share of bums to be fair
And HBO were happy for him to do that unfortunately.
It’s a shame he didn’t stay at heavyweight after he beat Ruiz
He could have fought Byrd, Holyfield, Tyson or Toney
Those would have been huge fights for him at the time
I believe a fight with Byrd would’ve been a unification fight.

so many now say 'well he would have cruised Benn or Eubank or Michalczewski. I'm not so easily convinced and we'll never know.

Well, Eubank never chased big fights and was happy to stay at home
How many American fighters did Eubank actually fight?
Benn said he was happy being second best to Roy Jones
Benn has some decent wins but let’s be honest he wasn’t an elite fighter
He was like the black British version of Arturo Gatti.
Jones should have fought Michalchewski for sure but where?
Neither man wanted to travel so both are to blame for it not happening.

They really went overboard affording Jones with what I believe was "a record contract" at the time and once Merchant started harping on a p4p set up with of all people Pernell Whitaker became a bit much. Think that was during the Antoine Byrd fight. The thing with post Ruiz and Jones is it always felt like they never planned for it realistically, it was all about getting that 'big' heavyweight name-fight initially hence all of the early Tyson talk. You're right about Byrd. Actually think that would have been a tremendous style clash and in spots just like looking in the mirror though Byrd was more straight ahead and seemed to do better against squat power house type heavy's. For all the fast sharp pop he had Jones could match it, but Jones would also be facing someone with similar reflex speed. I'd pay to see that one.

Eubank to be honest never impressed me and for more reason than he was Benns rival. Said it before and definitely in the minority but remember watching the Thornton fight and blown away at how wide the cards were. He could be out hustled and I thought he was in large gaps there. Never expected Eubank to jump at a Jones fight but Benn said on a couple of occasions that while Jones was a cut above he would be willing to mix it up as champions should. There was a small window after he beat McClellan but Jones and promotion had zero interest. Benn also traveled and rebuilt his career in the States after loss to Watson. Benn and Gatti while the same rapid passion I don't see. If anything Gatti fought smarter and boxed early namely with Patterson and became face first as career and damage went on. Physically the poor guy looked like someone wrapped a bag of feral cats over his head even after his wins and he seemed to be either with weight advantages many times or on the other end at welter where he didn't belong. Benn was a caveman early and did show improved boxing when rising to 168 and found a jab. He was never brought in as an opponent to make another look stellar or propel them save for one time and he turned those plans on their head beating p4p ranked G Man. Thought he also deserved rematch with Eubank.

[GaMo]

thought we were talking lb4lb?

We are talking pound for pound
Obviously, a former heavyweight champion
Would destroy a former super featherweight champion.

You're right about Byrd. Actually think that would have been a tremendous style clash and in spots just like looking in the mirror though Byrd was more straight ahead and seemed to do better against squat power house type heavy's. For all the fast sharp pop he had Jones could match it, but Jones would also be facing someone with similar reflex speed. I'd pay to see that one.

It would have been a great fight and it’s a shame it never happened
Nobody really called for Jones to move back down to 175
I think we all wanted to see him fight the heavyweights.

He probably would have beat both Tyson and Holyfield
But unfortunately, didn’t push for those fights.
Byrd was underrated and probably would have beaten Jones
Especially when you consider Tarver (a southpaw) ended up beating him.

Never expected Eubank to jump at a Jones fight but Benn said on a couple of occasions that while Jones was a cut above he would be willing to mix it up as champions should. There was a small window after he beat McClellan but Jones and promotion had zero interest. Benn also traveled and rebuilt his career in the States after loss to Watson. Benn and Gatti while the same rapid passion I don't see. If anything Gatti fought smarter and boxed early namely with Patterson and became face first as career and damage went on. Physically the poor guy looked like someone wrapped a bag of feral cats over his head even after his wins and he seemed to be either with weight advantages many times or on the other end at welter where he didn't belong. Benn was a caveman early and did show improved boxing when rising to 168 and found a jab. He was never brought in as an opponent to make another look stellar or propel them save for one time and he turned those plans on their head beating p4p ranked G Man. Thought he also deserved rematch with Eubank.

I can’t see Benn beating Jones. He would’ve had a punchers chance
But Benn didn’t have the best chin and Jones could hit too.
Benn was too easy to hit and the speed would’ve ruined him
I like Benn, he’s fun to watch but he wasn’t an elite fighter IMO.

[Gandalf]

Leonard benefited and thrived in a legendary era, cliché but he clashed with like minded greats and that tips it for me.

Leonard will win this poll, boxing fans are very nostaligic
in reality he would lose to both jones and mayweather by some margin

As I said, you could argue that he lost to Hagler and Hearns (the return)
So his record against the big three could actually be 3 wins and 3 defeats.

I believe that Hagler is very overrated. He couldn't stop Duran over 15 rounds
And Duran was a blown up lightweight. He lost to Leonard who was really a welterweight
(who had not fought in almost three years) and he never moved up to 175
He could have fought Matthew Saad Muhammad, Dwight Muhammad Qawi
Or Michael Spinks but instead he waited for the smaller men to move up
And then struggled with them when they finally did fight him.

Roy was a reflex phenome and superb athlete but as has been mentioned he really did have a silver platter and a very very cushy network contract at the time

Yeah, Roy did fight his fair share of bums to be fair
And HBO were happy for him to do that unfortunately.
It’s a shame he didn’t stay at heavyweight after he beat Ruiz
He could have fought Byrd, Holyfield, Tyson or Toney
Those would have been huge fights for him at the time
I believe a fight with Byrd would’ve been a unification fight.

so many now say 'well he would have cruised Benn or Eubank or Michalczewski. I'm not so easily convinced and we'll never know.

Well, Eubank never chased big fights and was happy to stay at home
How many American fighters did Eubank actually fight?
Benn said he was happy being second best to Roy Jones
Benn has some decent wins but let’s be honest he wasn’t an elite fighter
He was like the black British version of Arturo Gatti.
Jones should have fought Michalchewski for sure but where?
Neither man wanted to travel so both are to blame for it not happening.

Nice posting. Are these in sonnet form?

[Gandalf]

I don't know about these hypothetical playoffs really. The only certainty I have is that Joe Calzaghe was not only the best looking fighter, but also the best fighter of all time. Then it is James Toney.

Out of these three I would say Leonard as he could do a bit of everything and fought the best. Then it would be Mayweather as he can also do everything, but he picked and chose so he is below. Then it is Jones Jr as I have erased the Toney fight from my memory and he too picked and chose a little. In his prime he wouldn't get tagged much, but against a hypothetical Mayweather or Leonard he would get tagged and I'm not sure the chin holds up. Leonard and Mayweather have great chins.

[GaMo]

He definitely didn't clean out 160, 168 or Heavyweight
But he beat the best at 168 (Toney) and the best at 160 (Hopkins)
Guys like Eubank and Benn never seemed in a rush to fight him
Ottke and Calzaghe never left home. At 175 Jones was the man
So much so that I think he'd have an easy night with Andre Ward.

Roy never left home either (forget the excuses, I know them all, just stating a fact). The only reason he had the IBF/WBA titles at LH was because Michalczewski was stripped after beating Hill. The Ring changed their rules to gift/promote Roy.

So unless you believe Americans should get special dispensation for being American Roy should have travelled to challenge the true champ - Michalczewski.

Fair point but like I said, Germany was corrupt back then
Extremely bad judging and unprofessional refereeing
Meant that Jones would have to have scored a knockout to win.

Just look at Sven Ottke's unbeaten title reign as an example

I've seen a few Ottke "robberies" that weren't robberies, they were close/debatable decisions that he had every right to win. People claim "robbery" about disputed decisions week in week out, especially when they haven't seen the fights they're talking about.

Foreign fighters in America claim it's corrupt/inept when they lose too.

It's been a while since I have seen these fights
So maybe you're correct but I seem to remember
Robin Reid knocking him down and it getting ruled a slip
Then Reid losing two or three points for nothing
Didn't he actually get warned at one stage for punching?
Like I said it's been a while so I could be wrong
I actually remember Reid beating both Ottke and Calzaghe.

[Fenster]

It's been a while since I have seen these fights
So maybe you're correct but I seem to remember
Robin Reid knocking him down and it getting ruled a slip
Then Reid losing two or three points for nothing
Didn't he actually get warned at one stage for punching?
Like I said it's been a while so I could be wrong
I actually remember Reid beating both Ottke and Calzaghe.

The ref was pathetic/inept/biased but Reid wasn't robbed on the cards, it was a close fight that he threw away down the stretch when he got tired/ran out of ideas (imo).

I don't think he was robbed against Calzaghe either, he also claims he was "robbed" against Lacy. Why? Because the Americans (team Lacy) treated him so badly. They didn't provide adequate accommodation/food/transport/training conditions so he was handicapped on the night. If the fight was in England he would have won (so he says).

That's my point about fighters/fans crying robbery. Doesn't matter who it is or where they come from there's always someone claiming unfair treatment/corruption. Americans say Britian is corrupt, Britain says Germany, Germany says America and so on and on.

[Mr140]

Leonard was the best in my eyes and manged to be fighting in a era with a lot of legends who he manged to come out on top against. His comeback out of retirement to beat the mw goat is pretty much unheard of.

[GaMo]

It's been a while since I have seen these fights
So maybe you're correct but I seem to remember
Robin Reid knocking him down and it getting ruled a slip
Then Reid losing two or three points for nothing
Didn't he actually get warned at one stage for punching?
Like I said it's been a while so I could be wrong
I actually remember Reid beating both Ottke and Calzaghe.

The ref was pathetic/inept/biased but Reid wasn't robbed on the cards, it was a close fight that he threw away down the stretch when he got tired/ran out of ideas (imo).

I don't think he was robbed against Calzaghe either, he also claims he was "robbed" against Lacy. Why? Because the Americans (team Lacy) treated him so badly. They didn't provide adequate accommodation/food/transport/training conditions so he was handicapped on the night. If the fight was in England he would have won (so he says).

That's my point about fighters/fans crying robbery. Doesn't matter who it is or where they come from there's always someone claiming unfair treatment/corruption. Americans say Britian is corrupt, Britain says Germany, Germany says America and so on and on.

Reid wasn't robbed on the cards because of the referee
If he had of properly ruled the knockdown and not taken points
Then I imagine the cards would've been in Reid's favour.

The Abraham-Miranda fight was another example
Of bad judging and even worse refereeing in Germany.

The Calzaghe fight was close but Reid landed the better shots
All the clean, hard effective punches came from him.
I thought he did enough to win a close decision
But it was close. He obviously wasn't robbed against Lacy
He got floored multiple times, fouled and complained all night.

[Spicoli]

Still say if you want true dedicated corrupt ref Argentina takes the cake. Only takes one unchecked man on an ego trip to dictate the big picture flow of a fight.

[palmerq]

People always talk like sven ottke never actually won a fight but he was actually a monsterous power puncher

high quality video alert
https://youtu.be/r97Qq8s119s?t=188

see he actually ko'd someone ! and anthony the man mundine too...he's called the man he must be good... also kessler couldnt ko the man so ottke > kessler :S