Creation vs Evolution

[VictorCharlie]

well the author does touch on that point, but there is much more to it than that...check it out if your interested in the topic

[Fenster]

A literal interpretation of the bible? So you cant pick and choose your bits, right?

Personally i couldn't care less what people believe but please explain Noah's ark the 50,000 species of animal, 1 million species of insects....and the DINOSAURS all living together for over 6 months?

luvfightgame is correct, this is a question outside the realms of science.

There is no scientific evidence that can prove one way or the other specific details of a man building an ark.

You dont have to explain it

Noah's ark. million species. Dinosaurs.

Yes or no?

Noah's ark-yes
millions of species-not millions
dinosaurs- yes

It doesn't need a seperate thread

If you want to explain how this could of happened

i'm all ears

Ok,

It took approximately 120 years to build the ark.

It didn't require fish, insects, nor every variety of species. It only required 1 "kind" therefore a single dog breed would suffice. Same for each other "kind".

He took baby dinosaurs.

Oh of course, "kinds" and little baby dinosaurs, it makes sense now...Kent Hovind fan?

To believe that the ark story actually happened, you must really NEED to believe, for some reason



By the way Bilbo

Ica stones - http://skepdic.com/icastones.html

Yup i'm a Hovind fan. I enjoyed watching him thoroughly embarass the "experts" he debated. As far as "need", to believe.... You will come to the same conclusion, you obviously want to believe that everything can happen by accident.

Books have authors, buildings have builders, expecting something more complex than a book to have happened by random chance is crazy. A lot crazier than believing a story about a boat and a bunch of animals. Besides you can't prove it DIDN'T happen, I can prove evolution DIDN'T happen.

I never stated anything I believe in

I guess you should know I'm a pastafarian http://www.venganza.org/

In the name of the Great Noodlyness, Ramen.

Great cop out. I never stated anything I believe in............

I just want to argue and make ridiculous comments, but I will make childish non committed responses like................. I never stated anything........... That's junior high stuff.

ahhh come on dont get upset

I didn't want to argue, just ask a few questions and you've answered them. As i said before I couldn't give a S*** what people believe in...there's nothing i can say that'll make you believe anything other than what you already believe, is there?

Although you may feel different if you were touched by His noodly appendage.

I'm not upset, of course you give a shit what people believe. It is actually the most important thing in the world. It completely determines how a person thinks, behaves, etc.... The entire economy operates on faith, ever hear of consumer confidence, how does that change the value of things? And how do they know when it goes up or down? A fighter fights better when they believe they will win, belief is everything and discussing beliefs should never be avoided.

As far as you swaying my beliefs, I hope you weren't trying cause you've offered nothing by cynical comments, those will never sway me. If you make a point and can back it up, that would sway me.

Hmmm i'm not really arrogant enough to try and sway you....Don't see how you came to that conclusion through me asking whether Dinosaurs were on the ark and posting a Flying Spaghetti Monster link

As for the ark, I believe it takes nothing more than a modicum of common sense to realise this story is complete and utter crap...anyone that can seriously believe it did happen, well, i just don't know where you're at

[Howlin Mad Missy]

yes but they've proved evolution to be wrong so it must be true Fenster. I believe

[Kev]

A literal interpretation of the bible? So you cant pick and choose your bits, right?

Personally i couldn't care less what people believe but please explain Noah's ark the 50,000 species of animal, 1 million species of insects....and the DINOSAURS all living together for over 6 months?

luvfightgame is correct, this is a question outside the realms of science.

There is no scientific evidence that can prove one way or the other specific details of a man building an ark.

You dont have to explain it

Noah's ark. million species. Dinosaurs.

Yes or no?

Noah's ark-yes
millions of species-not millions
dinosaurs- yes

It doesn't need a seperate thread

If you want to explain how this could of happened

i'm all ears

Ok,

It took approximately 120 years to build the ark.

It didn't require fish, insects, nor every variety of species. It only required 1 "kind" therefore a single dog breed would suffice. Same for each other "kind".

He took baby dinosaurs.

Oh of course, "kinds" and little baby dinosaurs, it makes sense now...Kent Hovind fan?

To believe that the ark story actually happened, you must really NEED to believe, for some reason



By the way Bilbo

Ica stones - http://skepdic.com/icastones.html

Hey Fenster,

Yes the authenticity of many of the Ica Stones has been hotly contested for several reasons.

The most eriosu accusation is fraud and indeed it is fair to suggest that many may be hoaxes. Unfortunately in both archaeology and paleontology there is a massive market for fossil and acrchaeological finds. Many finds are not discovered by experts themselves but by locals who then sell their finds.

It is fair to say that many of the more elaborate Ica Stones were faked in this way.

However this sort of deception problem is in now way limited to archaeological finds. Paleontologists have a similar problem with many fossils later proving to be hoaxes.

Within the last 10 years there was a major 'dino-bird' discovery named archaeoraptor that made headlines around the world. The National Geographic put it on the front page of their magazine announcing the missing link between dinosaurs and birds had been found!

It was a matter of mere months later that archeoraptor was discovered to actually be two fossils glued together, a great source of embarresment to the evolutionist community.

Unfortunately it is one of the pitfalls of working in such an area.

However the Mexican dinosaurs that I also included several pictures of have not had their authenticty challenged. Remarkably they seem to be genuine.

[Kev]

yes but they've proved evolution to be wrong so it must be true Fenster. I believe

Hey Missy,

the trouble with your narrow minded view is that you focus on what you think are the unbelievable claims in the bible, that to your mind sound absurd so you mock them.

It is clear however that you have never attempted to submit belief in evolution to the same scrutiny.

Lets consider,

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth

or

In the beginning there was nothing, absolutely nothing. Then nothing exploded, and expanded into nothing creating an infinite universe of mind blowing complexity. There was no reason for this, literally nothing caused this, the nothing that created out of nothing exploded into nothing and created something.

And God made life,

or

Nothing which by now had evolved into huge planets, stars, comets and other space debris now did something very clever.

A single cell appeared spontanously, out of nowhere, for no reason and amazingly found that it had all of the requirements to survive in this hostile enviroment. But it was alone, completely alone. This was no problem for the single cell however as it found it had also spontaneously developed the ability to replicate itself. This it did and now there were two. These two also replicated themselves creating four and before long there were loads of single cells floating around in a soupy like sea.

They then randomly started to get more complex and thus evlolved into all of life on earth.

[Howlin Mad Missy]

The sun is a mass of incandescent gas
A gigantic nuclear furnace
Where Hydrogen is built into Helium
At a temperature of millions of degrees

The sun is hot, the sun is not
A place where we could live
But here on Earth there'd be no life
Without the light it gives

We need its light, we need its heat
The sun light that we seek
The sun light comes from our own sun's
Atomic energy

The sun is a mass of incandescent gas
A gigantic nuclear furnace
Where Hydrogen is built into Helium
At a temperature of millions of degrees

The sun is hot...

The sun is so hot that everything on it is a gas
Aluminum, Copper, Iron, and many others

The sun is large...

If the sun were hollow, a million Earth's would fit inside
And yet, it is only a middle size star

The sun is far away...

About 93,000,000 miles away
And that's why it looks so small

But even when it's out of sight
The sun shines night and day

We need its heat, we need its light
The sun light that we seek
The sun light comes from our own sun's
Atomic energy

Scientists have found that the sun is a huge atom smashing machine
The heat and light of the sun are caused by nuclear reactions between
Hydrogen, Nitrogen, Carbon, and Helium

The sun is a mass of incandescent gas
A gigantic nuclear furnace
Where Hydrogen is built into Helium
At a temperature of millions of degrees

[Fenster]

yes but they've proved evolution to be wrong so it must be true Fenster. I believe

yeah i dont understand that side of the argument either



Biblo - if you knew the Ica stones authenticity was in doubt, it's not very wise to use them as evidence

[Kev]

yes but they've proved evolution to be wrong so it must be true Fenster. I believe

yeah i dont understand that side of the argument either



Biblo - if you knew the Ica stones authenticity was in doubt, it's not very wise to use them as evidence

The authenticity of the Ica Stones is in doubt only because they contain pictures of dinosaurs Fenster.

As I have said some of them may have been forged as locals were discovering them and getting rewards.

However the vast majority appear to be genuine, and show no signs of being modern hoaxes.

The most important fossil discoveries in recent years have all come from Laoining in China even though the Archaoraptor fraud was discovered there. Yet scientists continue to purchase fossils from the locals there.

Same difference.

[luvfightgame]

The sun is a mass of incandescent gas
A gigantic nuclear furnace
Where Hydrogen is built into Helium
At a temperature of millions of degrees

The sun is hot, the sun is not
A place where we could live
But here on Earth there'd be no life
Without the light it gives

We need its light, we need its heat
The sun light that we seek
The sun light comes from our own sun's
Atomic energy

The sun is a mass of incandescent gas
A gigantic nuclear furnace
Where Hydrogen is built into Helium
At a temperature of millions of degrees

The sun is hot...

The sun is so hot that everything on it is a gas
Aluminum, Copper, Iron, and many others

The sun is large...

If the sun were hollow, a million Earth's would fit inside
And yet, it is only a middle size star

The sun is far away...

About 93,000,000 miles away
And that's why it looks so small

But even when it's out of sight
The sun shines night and day

We need its heat, we need its light
The sun light that we seek
The sun light comes from our own sun's
Atomic energy

Scientists have found that the sun is a huge atom smashing machine
The heat and light of the sun are caused by nuclear reactions between
Hydrogen, Nitrogen, Carbon, and Helium

The sun is a mass of incandescent gas
A gigantic nuclear furnace
Where Hydrogen is built into Helium
At a temperature of millions of degrees

Yes Missy and when the nuclear power plant in Chernobyl blew up it actually evolved into a more efficient powerplant. We see these nuclear power plants springing into existence all over the world. All you have to do is put all the materials in the same place and eventually they will form themselves into a functioning power plant.

Have you ever heard of the "Law of Entropy"? Please explain when this universal law came into existence, and how evolution took place with it in existence?

[bigragu]

Oh god no! As if the 9/11 threads weren't enough :P

anotehr scurge of internet forums, the creation thread... :P

Seriously though, I was raised Christian but don't really even know what I beleive any more... I don't beleive that there is or isn't a god etc...

My religion is called Confusedianity.

Personally I find it best to leave religion out of it completely and just examine the evidence.

I.e the fossil record, transistional fossils, gentetics etc, then it becomes an interesting topic.

For me it is never going to be proven how we got here, and ultimately it is a reliance for faith but after looking closely at the supposed evidences for evolution I have to say that they just arn't there.

then you have obviously not examined enough evidence......Evolution is simply change.....it happened....the bible is a great book with some great stories....The stories were written to create a way of life...a way for people to come to grips with the questions they needed answered.....The Bible is a step up from Mythology.....And this God,Jesus and Holyspirit stuff replaced Apollo/Zeus...the winners of the wars and invasions imposed their beliefs upon the defeated masses...and those that didn't like certain aspects of their religion simply made up a new one (King James anyone?). Religion is there for those unable to accept that we are just here....nothing more...there is no heaven ...there is no hell....so live in the now....and be the best you can be ....EVOLVE into a better person!!!!

[Kev]

Oh god no! As if the 9/11 threads weren't enough :P

anotehr scurge of internet forums, the creation thread... :P

Seriously though, I was raised Christian but don't really even know what I beleive any more... I don't beleive that there is or isn't a god etc...

My religion is called Confusedianity.

Personally I find it best to leave religion out of it completely and just examine the evidence.

I.e the fossil record, transistional fossils, gentetics etc, then it becomes an interesting topic.

For me it is never going to be proven how we got here, and ultimately it is a reliance for faith but after looking closely at the supposed evidences for evolution I have to say that they just arn't there.

then you have obviously not examined enough evidence......Evolution is simply change.....it happened....the bible is a great book with some great stories....The stories were written to create a way of life...a way for people to come to grips with the questions they needed answered.....The Bible is a step up from Mythology.....And this God,Jesus and Holyspirit stuff replaced Apollo/Zeus...the winners of the wars and invasions imposed their beliefs upon the defeated masses...and those that didn't like certain aspects of their religion simply made up a new one (King James anyone?). Religion is there for those unable to accept that we are just here....nothing more...there is no heaven ...there is no hell....so live in the now....and be the best you can be ....EVOLVE into a better person!!!!

Hey bigragu, it saddens me when people defend evolution whilst clearly not understanding even the basics of what it is.

Evolution in the biologial sense is not simply change, it the transformation of one organism into another through gradual changes within its DNA structure over successiv e generations. The principal driving force behind this evolution is said to be mutations within the gens during replication. Not a single such mutation has ever been observed, science cannot manufacture one and no new information has ever been found to have been added to the DNA of an organism.

Furthermore the principles of molecular biology are actually contradicted by evolution. There is no evidence to support biological evolution according to the true meaning of the word at all.

Unfortunately the average person confuses biological evolution with other terms of usage for evolution and see's for example how different species of dogs have been bred over the past few thousand years by mankind and they think that is evidence for biological evolution when it fact that is something entirely different, natural selection which is NOT evoltion.

Of course scientists and television programmes are deliberatly vague on this point to continue to confuse people who think natural selection, or even human advancement is evolution when neither has anything whatsoever to do with the biological evolution at the molecular level of an organism which is what they are talking about.