Carillion directors to be investigated

[X]

[Master]

You happy about paying continue paying these bosses thousands of pounds for their incompetence and neglect managing of the company by stealing from the pension fund?

Who is next interserve, serco?

[Dia bando]

You happy about paying continue paying these bosses thousands of pounds for their incompetence and neglect managing of the company by stealing from the pension fund?

Who is next interserve, serco?

They are no different to the banks rewarding useless people with bonus payments nothing ever changes public money wasted on undeserving individuals but it's the Tory way rewarding there rich asslickers.

[Master]

You happy about paying continue paying these bosses thousands of pounds for their incompetence and neglect managing of the company by stealing from the pension fund?

Who is next interserve, serco?

They are no different to the banks rewarding useless people with bonus payments nothing ever changes public money wasted on undeserving individuals but it's the Tory way rewarding there rich asslickers.

There are clear conflicts of interest when MP's family members are members of the boards of these private companies.

[brocktonblockbust]

😈😈😈👾👾👾🎅🎅🎅🎅🏇🏇� ��🏇⛹💣💥💣💥💣💦💣💥💣💥� ���💥👜👕🎐🎐⏯🈯🉐🈹🈚🈹🉐 🈶🉐🈲🈚🈲🈲🈚🈹🈚🈹🉐🈯� ��🈯🉐🈯🉐🈯🈶🈯🉐🈹🈚🈲

[Dia bando]

You happy about paying continue paying these bosses thousands of pounds for their incompetence and neglect managing of the company by stealing from the pension fund?

Who is next interserve, serco?

They are no different to the banks rewarding useless people with bonus payments nothing ever changes public money wasted on undeserving individuals but it's the Tory way rewarding there rich asslickers.

There are clear conflicts of interest when MP's family members are members of the boards of these private companies.

Yes a conflict of interest how many MPs of all parties use the system strange your MP is there to represent the voters not themselves.
During Thatcher's time Norman Tebbit and his Wife were on the board of a company which ran
a lot Local authority grounds maintenance contracts,!! a member of the cabinet well make of it what you will.!!!!!!!

[Master]

Carillion: Ex-finance chief 'dumped last of his shares'

The former finance director of collapsed construction firm Carillion "dumped" the last of his shares at the earliest possible moment, MPs say.

Richard Adam sold shares worth hundreds of thousands of pounds in early 2017 as soon as he qualified for them after leaving Carillion in December 2016.

The information was released by a joint committee of MPs looking into Carillion's collapse.

Mr Adam said he had sold them "when I was invited to do so by the company".

The information was published by the Work and Pensions and Business Select Committees, which are conducting a joint inquiry into Carillion's collapse.

More than 1,000 Carillion workers have lost their jobs since the firm went into liquidation last month.

Mr Adam retired at the end of December 2016. On 1 March 2017, he sold all the shares he had at the time for £534,000, including performance awards for 2013-15 of £277,000, which fell due once he had retired.

He then sold his long-term incentive plan awards for 2014 on 8 May 2017, the day they matured, for £242,000.

Mr Adam commented: "I sold the shares that I was eligible to sell when I was invited to do so by the company as I retired. More than half of the shares in the company that I had an interest in at retirement have been lost as a result of the company entering liquidation."

The committees also published a response from Mr Adam's successor, Zafar Khan, whose contract with Carillion was terminated last September after eight months in the job.

A few days before his contract was ended, Mr Khan had issued a financial update showing things had worsened since July 2017, when Carillion had written off £845m in losses on underperforming contracts, the committee said.

They added: "Mr Khan argues that it is surprising that the board were 'spooked' by his update, as it should have been apparent to the board by then that the company was struggling to improve both its net debt and profit positions."

Frank Field, chairman of the Work and Pensions Select Committee, accused Mr Adam of "dumping the last of his shares at the first possible moment, because he is - with his own money at least - 'risk-averse'. What conclusions are we to draw from that?"

He added: "The other directors appear keen to set up the hapless Zafar Khan as the fall guy for the collapse. It is not lost on us, however, that he inherited Carillion's mountain of debt."


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43190109

[brocktonblockbust]

Big deal, get the violins you daffodils

[brocktonblockbust]

That's racist

[X]

Master, mate, you need to be in possession of the full facts.

I know Carillion extremely well indeed on a first hand basis.

I have set up and run Joint Ventures with them, have competed against them in bids, have bought and sold businesses to them, have taken over contracts from them, and have dealt with them when they have taken over contracts from us. I have TUPE transferred staff from them and to them. I have poached their staff and they have poached mine. I have many friends who work for them. My wife also worked directly for Carillion very recently indeed, for many years.

As usual, journalists who do not have a clue are offering simplified reporting and viewpoints which are prejudiced by their own beliefs. Equally, on this very forum, we have had people conveniently cherry picking stuff to add to their already formed world view.

It is true that Carillion's directors have failed, and should not be rewarded for that failure. The 'golden parachutes' awarded for failure are just wrong and should not have been made. If it is true, as has been reported, that the remuneration board changed the bonus rules in 2015, again that should be investigated. Note, though, that nobody on that Board is a Carillion employee. The head of it is the HR Director of Tesco. Why is nobody asking the non-executive directors these questions. They are the ones who have also actually failed because their role is governance and to provide outside perspective.

The vultures at EY are now making millions by running the liquidation. But it was KPMG who signed off the accounts every year, earning hundreds of thousands of pounds. When EY fuck up somebody else's accounts, KPMG will Be the liquidators and earn millions. Why is nobody challenging this cosy and illegal cartel?

The reasons the company went bust are complex, but essentially it boils down to them being too aggressive in how they book cash and profit. They booked profit every year on long term contracts when the actual profit was unclear. I have known this for a fact for over 5 years. This was driven by their demanding shareholders ..... 72% of whom are banks.

Nobody comes out of this well.

Carillion's directors have clearly failed. They then ended up in a Ponzi like scheme where they 'bought' shit new contracts in an attempt to mask underlying long term losses. Their middle management are guilty of being complicit in the whole shambles for many years and taking undeserved bonuses too. Accountants are guilty of overstating cash and profit. Carillion staff are also bonused, they were happy to take the bonuses. Their competitors are guilty of joining the race to the bottom in terms of bidding for work with little or no margin possibility.

The government are acting all pious and surprised. However, two thirds of Carillion's work was with the government. Government contracts are not particularly profitable, but do provide reliable cashflow. PFI and PPP contracts are now weighted firmly in favour of the government, with margins usually in the 2.5 to 3% region, which is not blatant profiteering. The government knew Carillion were in trouble and needed cash, so they aggressively negotiated new and existing contracts in their favour. My wife's public sector customer regularly applied penalties to Carillion, which resulted in the contract being permanently loss making. Her customer said 'we need the money as our budgets have been cut and you're a big enough business. Oh, and by the way, if you don't agree to do this extra work for free, I will just make sure I get it back next month in penalties anyway.' Her customer was shambolic, and wasteful in the way they ran their own business.

Terrible customers, who believe that the company was a magic money tree.

Central government say that they will not bail out a private company for the benefit of shareholders ..... unless its a bank, eh! And it is those banks that ultimately drove the company into liquidation.

The Opposition are jumping onto the bandwagon to make this a case for broader nationalisation, because public services should be delivered by a public sector with a public sector ethos. That's a joke, it was two thirds of Carillion's customers who helped make them bankrupt by being awful customers. Great ethos.

Anybody close has known for at least 5 years that the company was in trouble, including all of the above. But now everybody is acting surprised. Hypocrisy at its best.

incidentally, I have to pull you on your comment about directors stealing people's pensions. Carillion have a huge black hole in their final salary pension schemes (not in any other scheme). In 1996 their final salary pension pot stood at +127%. That is a healthy, well invested surplus. In 1997, chancellor Gordon Brown raided private company pension schemes for about £120 BILLION. They charged a tax levy, changed tax rules and - at the time of the next valuation - Carillion's final salary pension was nearly £1 billion in deficit. They had not changed their investment strategy and their returns were consistent to what they were before. Pension funds are quite well protected from their own companies, but not government. It wasn't the Carillion directors who stole the staff pensions.

My wife is really upset by what has happened, and I suspect I am much closer to it than anyone else on this forum. It is annoying when people spit out opinions when they do not know the facts, so much of the stuff I've seen on TV isn't even credible.

Rant over, and I'm not having a go at you, Master. I won't be getting into any sort of debate about this on the internet, because there is no value in doing so.

[Primo Carnera]

Master, mate, you need to be in possession of the full facts.

I know Carillion extremely well indeed on a first hand basis.

I have set up and run Joint Ventures with them, have competed against them in bids, have bought and sold businesses to them, have taken over contracts from them, and have dealt with them when they have taken over contracts from us. I have TUPE transferred staff from them and to them. I have poached their staff and they have poached mine. I have many friends who work for them. My wife also worked directly for Carillion very recently indeed, for many years.

As usual, journalists who do not have a clue are offering simplified reporting and viewpoints which are prejudiced by their own beliefs. Equally, on this very forum, we have had people conveniently cherry picking stuff to add to their already formed world view.

It is true that Carillion's directors have failed, and should not be rewarded for that failure. The 'golden parachutes' awarded for failure are just wrong and should not have been made. If it is true, as has been reported, that the remuneration board changed the bonus rules in 2015, again that should be investigated. Note, though, that nobody on that Board is a Carillion employee. The head of it is the HR Director of Tesco. Why is nobody asking the non-executive directors these questions. They are the ones who have also actually failed because their role is governance and to provide outside perspective.

The vultures at EY are now making millions by running the liquidation. But it was KPMG who signed off the accounts every year, earning hundreds of thousands of pounds. When EY fuck up somebody else's accounts, KPMG will Be the liquidators and earn millions. Why is nobody challenging this cosy and illegal cartel?

The reasons the company went bust are complex, but essentially it boils down to them being too aggressive in how they book cash and profit. They booked profit every year on long term contracts when the actual profit was unclear. I have known this for a fact for over 5 years. This was driven by their demanding shareholders ..... 72% of whom are banks.

Nobody comes out of this well.

Carillion's directors have clearly failed. They then ended up in a Ponzi like scheme where they 'bought' shit new contracts in an attempt to mask underlying long term losses. Their middle management are guilty of being complicit in the whole shambles for many years and taking undeserved bonuses too. Accountants are guilty of overstating cash and profit. Carillion staff are also bonused, they were happy to take the bonuses. Their competitors are guilty of joining the race to the bottom in terms of bidding for work with little or no margin possibility.

The government are acting all pious and surprised. However, two thirds of Carillion's work was with the government. Government contracts are not particularly profitable, but do provide reliable cashflow. PFI and PPP contracts are now weighted firmly in favour of the government, with margins usually in the 2.5 to 3% region, which is not blatant profiteering. The government knew Carillion were in trouble and needed cash, so they aggressively negotiated new and existing contracts in their favour. My wife's public sector customer regularly applied penalties to Carillion, which resulted in the contract being permanently loss making. Her customer said 'we need the money as our budgets have been cut and you're a big enough business. Oh, and by the way, if you don't agree to do this extra work for free, I will just make sure I get it back next month in penalties anyway.' Her customer was shambolic, and wasteful in the way they ran their own business.

Terrible customers, who believe that the company was a magic money tree.

Central government say that they will not bail out a private company for the benefit of shareholders ..... unless its a bank, eh! And it is those banks that ultimately drove the company into liquidation.

The Opposition are jumping onto the bandwagon to make this a case for broader nationalisation, because public services should be delivered by a public sector with a public sector ethos. That's a joke, it was two thirds of Carillion's customers who helped make them bankrupt by being awful customers. Great ethos.

Anybody close has known for at least 5 years that the company was in trouble, including all of the above. But now everybody is acting surprised. Hypocrisy at its best.

incidentally, I have to pull you on your comment about directors stealing people's pensions. Carillion have a huge black hole in their final salary pension schemes (not in any other scheme). In 1996 their final salary pension pot stood at +127%. That is a healthy, well invested surplus. In 1997, chancellor Gordon Brown raided private company pension schemes for about £120 BILLION. They charged a tax levy, changed tax rules and - at the time of the next valuation - Carillion's final salary pension was nearly £1 billion in deficit. They had not changed their investment strategy and their returns were consistent to what they were before. Pension funds are quite well protected from their own companies, but not government. It wasn't the Carillion directors who stole the staff pensions.

My wife is really upset by what has happened, and I suspect I am much closer to it than anyone else on this forum. It is annoying when people spit out opinions when they do not know the facts, so much of the stuff I've seen on TV isn't even credible.

Rant over, and I'm not having a go at you, Master. I won't be getting into any sort of debate about this on the internet, because there is no value in doing so.

Great Post X. @Master , you should take note mate. It's easy to go on a big idealistic crusade without all the facts. There are many people responsible for what has happened here and there are many HYPOCRITES as well.
I also believe that The pressure they are put under to win some of these large Government contracts and penalties are why they make losses on projects. Yet it is the Banks, Financial Institutions and Government that have allowed Carrillion to rack up such a massive debt. There's a lot more to this scandal than a few directors walking off into the sunset with a few grand!
also , these contracts are still gonna have to be completed, and the big guns will queue up to bid, and then they will be under the same pressures and probably rack up a shit load of debt and cave in as well.

[Gandalf]

I have been reading the papers. It just looks like a mess really. Looks like the same old story of run up the debts, loot the coffers and then saddle it on the taxpayers at the end.

[Master]

Well X that was better than your first post.

[Beanz]

Master, mate, you need to be in possession of the full facts.

I know Carillion extremely well indeed on a first hand basis.

I have set up and run Joint Ventures with them, have competed against them in bids, have bought and sold businesses to them, have taken over contracts from them, and have dealt with them when they have taken over contracts from us. I have TUPE transferred staff from them and to them. I have poached their staff and they have poached mine. I have many friends who work for them. My wife also worked directly for Carillion very recently indeed, for many years.

As usual, journalists who do not have a clue are offering simplified reporting and viewpoints which are prejudiced by their own beliefs. Equally, on this very forum, we have had people conveniently cherry picking stuff to add to their already formed world view.

It is true that Carillion's directors have failed, and should not be rewarded for that failure. The 'golden parachutes' awarded for failure are just wrong and should not have been made. If it is true, as has been reported, that the remuneration board changed the bonus rules in 2015, again that should be investigated. Note, though, that nobody on that Board is a Carillion employee. The head of it is the HR Director of Tesco. Why is nobody asking the non-executive directors these questions. They are the ones who have also actually failed because their role is governance and to provide outside perspective.

The vultures at EY are now making millions by running the liquidation. But it was KPMG who signed off the accounts every year, earning hundreds of thousands of pounds. When EY fuck up somebody else's accounts, KPMG will Be the liquidators and earn millions. Why is nobody challenging this cosy and illegal cartel?

The reasons the company went bust are complex, but essentially it boils down to them being too aggressive in how they book cash and profit. They booked profit every year on long term contracts when the actual profit was unclear. I have known this for a fact for over 5 years. This was driven by their demanding shareholders ..... 72% of whom are banks.

Nobody comes out of this well.

Carillion's directors have clearly failed. They then ended up in a Ponzi like scheme where they 'bought' shit new contracts in an attempt to mask underlying long term losses. Their middle management are guilty of being complicit in the whole shambles for many years and taking undeserved bonuses too. Accountants are guilty of overstating cash and profit. Carillion staff are also bonused, they were happy to take the bonuses. Their competitors are guilty of joining the race to the bottom in terms of bidding for work with little or no margin possibility.

The government are acting all pious and surprised. However, two thirds of Carillion's work was with the government. Government contracts are not particularly profitable, but do provide reliable cashflow. PFI and PPP contracts are now weighted firmly in favour of the government, with margins usually in the 2.5 to 3% region, which is not blatant profiteering. The government knew Carillion were in trouble and needed cash, so they aggressively negotiated new and existing contracts in their favour. My wife's public sector customer regularly applied penalties to Carillion, which resulted in the contract being permanently loss making. Her customer said 'we need the money as our budgets have been cut and you're a big enough business. Oh, and by the way, if you don't agree to do this extra work for free, I will just make sure I get it back next month in penalties anyway.' Her customer was shambolic, and wasteful in the way they ran their own business.

Terrible customers, who believe that the company was a magic money tree.

Central government say that they will not bail out a private company for the benefit of shareholders ..... unless its a bank, eh! And it is those banks that ultimately drove the company into liquidation.

The Opposition are jumping onto the bandwagon to make this a case for broader nationalisation, because public services should be delivered by a public sector with a public sector ethos. That's a joke, it was two thirds of Carillion's customers who helped make them bankrupt by being awful customers. Great ethos.

Anybody close has known for at least 5 years that the company was in trouble, including all of the above. But now everybody is acting surprised. Hypocrisy at its best.

incidentally, I have to pull you on your comment about directors stealing people's pensions. Carillion have a huge black hole in their final salary pension schemes (not in any other scheme). In 1996 their final salary pension pot stood at +127%. That is a healthy, well invested surplus. In 1997, chancellor Gordon Brown raided private company pension schemes for about £120 BILLION. They charged a tax levy, changed tax rules and - at the time of the next valuation - Carillion's final salary pension was nearly £1 billion in deficit. They had not changed their investment strategy and their returns were consistent to what they were before. Pension funds are quite well protected from their own companies, but not government. It wasn't the Carillion directors who stole the staff pensions.

My wife is really upset by what has happened, and I suspect I am much closer to it than anyone else on this forum. It is annoying when people spit out opinions when they do not know the facts, so much of the stuff I've seen on TV isn't even credible.

Rant over, and I'm not having a go at you, Master. I won't be getting into any sort of debate about this on the internet, because there is no value in doing so.

Great Post X. @Master , you should take note mate. It's easy to go on a big idealistic crusade without all the facts. There are many people responsible for what has happened here and there are many HYPOCRITES as well.
I also believe that The pressure they are put under to win some of these large Government contracts and penalties are why they make losses on projects. Yet it is the Banks, Financial Institutions and Government that have allowed Carrillion to rack up such a massive debt. There's a lot more to this scandal than a few directors walking off into the sunset with a few grand!
also , these contracts are still gonna have to be completed, and the big guns will queue up to bid, and then they will be under the same pressures and probably rack up a shit load of debt and cave in as well.

You should stop telling Master what to do. Maybe it's just me but you come across as incredibly patronising most the time yourself Primo.

[Primo Carnera]

Master, mate, you need to be in possession of the full facts.

I know Carillion extremely well indeed on a first hand basis.

I have set up and run Joint Ventures with them, have competed against them in bids, have bought and sold businesses to them, have taken over contracts from them, and have dealt with them when they have taken over contracts from us. I have TUPE transferred staff from them and to them. I have poached their staff and they have poached mine. I have many friends who work for them. My wife also worked directly for Carillion very recently indeed, for many years.

As usual, journalists who do not have a clue are offering simplified reporting and viewpoints which are prejudiced by their own beliefs. Equally, on this very forum, we have had people conveniently cherry picking stuff to add to their already formed world view.

It is true that Carillion's directors have failed, and should not be rewarded for that failure. The 'golden parachutes' awarded for failure are just wrong and should not have been made. If it is true, as has been reported, that the remuneration board changed the bonus rules in 2015, again that should be investigated. Note, though, that nobody on that Board is a Carillion employee. The head of it is the HR Director of Tesco. Why is nobody asking the non-executive directors these questions. They are the ones who have also actually failed because their role is governance and to provide outside perspective.

The vultures at EY are now making millions by running the liquidation. But it was KPMG who signed off the accounts every year, earning hundreds of thousands of pounds. When EY fuck up somebody else's accounts, KPMG will Be the liquidators and earn millions. Why is nobody challenging this cosy and illegal cartel?

The reasons the company went bust are complex, but essentially it boils down to them being too aggressive in how they book cash and profit. They booked profit every year on long term contracts when the actual profit was unclear. I have known this for a fact for over 5 years. This was driven by their demanding shareholders ..... 72% of whom are banks.

Nobody comes out of this well.

Carillion's directors have clearly failed. They then ended up in a Ponzi like scheme where they 'bought' shit new contracts in an attempt to mask underlying long term losses. Their middle management are guilty of being complicit in the whole shambles for many years and taking undeserved bonuses too. Accountants are guilty of overstating cash and profit. Carillion staff are also bonused, they were happy to take the bonuses. Their competitors are guilty of joining the race to the bottom in terms of bidding for work with little or no margin possibility.

The government are acting all pious and surprised. However, two thirds of Carillion's work was with the government. Government contracts are not particularly profitable, but do provide reliable cashflow. PFI and PPP contracts are now weighted firmly in favour of the government, with margins usually in the 2.5 to 3% region, which is not blatant profiteering. The government knew Carillion were in trouble and needed cash, so they aggressively negotiated new and existing contracts in their favour. My wife's public sector customer regularly applied penalties to Carillion, which resulted in the contract being permanently loss making. Her customer said 'we need the money as our budgets have been cut and you're a big enough business. Oh, and by the way, if you don't agree to do this extra work for free, I will just make sure I get it back next month in penalties anyway.' Her customer was shambolic, and wasteful in the way they ran their own business.

Terrible customers, who believe that the company was a magic money tree.

Central government say that they will not bail out a private company for the benefit of shareholders ..... unless its a bank, eh! And it is those banks that ultimately drove the company into liquidation.

The Opposition are jumping onto the bandwagon to make this a case for broader nationalisation, because public services should be delivered by a public sector with a public sector ethos. That's a joke, it was two thirds of Carillion's customers who helped make them bankrupt by being awful customers. Great ethos.

Anybody close has known for at least 5 years that the company was in trouble, including all of the above. But now everybody is acting surprised. Hypocrisy at its best.

incidentally, I have to pull you on your comment about directors stealing people's pensions. Carillion have a huge black hole in their final salary pension schemes (not in any other scheme). In 1996 their final salary pension pot stood at +127%. That is a healthy, well invested surplus. In 1997, chancellor Gordon Brown raided private company pension schemes for about £120 BILLION. They charged a tax levy, changed tax rules and - at the time of the next valuation - Carillion's final salary pension was nearly £1 billion in deficit. They had not changed their investment strategy and their returns were consistent to what they were before. Pension funds are quite well protected from their own companies, but not government. It wasn't the Carillion directors who stole the staff pensions.

My wife is really upset by what has happened, and I suspect I am much closer to it than anyone else on this forum. It is annoying when people spit out opinions when they do not know the facts, so much of the stuff I've seen on TV isn't even credible.

Rant over, and I'm not having a go at you, Master. I won't be getting into any sort of debate about this on the internet, because there is no value in doing so.

Great Post X. @Master , you should take note mate. It's easy to go on a big idealistic crusade without all the facts. There are many people responsible for what has happened here and there are many HYPOCRITES as well.
I also believe that The pressure they are put under to win some of these large Government contracts and penalties are why they make losses on projects. Yet it is the Banks, Financial Institutions and Government that have allowed Carrillion to rack up such a massive debt. There's a lot more to this scandal than a few directors walking off into the sunset with a few grand!
also , these contracts are still gonna have to be completed, and the big guns will queue up to bid, and then they will be under the same pressures and probably rack up a shit load of debt and cave in as well.

You should stop telling Master what to do. Maybe it's just me but you come across as incredibly patronising most the time yourself Primo.

@Beanz , and YOU should stop telling me what to do! Talk about pot calling the kettle black ffs!
He made a load anti Capitalism crusade comments without knowing what the fuck he was talking about apart from copying and pasting journalism from one side of the issue.
What the fuck happened to balance?
I have no clue what the fuck you do, nor do I particularly give a shit, but I am heavily involved in this industry and so are some people very close to me who have been affected.
So instead of the predictable “blame the fat cat bosses” cries, realise that it is far deeper than that.