Quote Originally Posted by Fenster View Post
Hold up, we're getting a bit muddled up here, i'm just filling in a few blanks and answering questions about the Ring policy and how lineal works.

The Ring is not lineal. The Vitali-Saunders episode caused murders with historians who didn't recognise it at all. That is another prime example of the Ring funking about with the rules to suit them.

I said "generally" The Ring along with all other serious publications and hardcore/nerd fans agree when a clear top two emerge in a division, therefore a new linage can be created, hence why The Ring constantly gets mistaken with lineal, as they're seen as the foremost authority.

Wlad couldn't fight the no.2 Vitali and also couldn't complete the unification of belts as Vitali was WBC champion. If you're claiming Wlad should not be regarded as lineal that's fine by me. However, the general consensus is Wlad was the no.1 heavyweight throughout that period, and because he could never face Vitali, I think the "special circumstances" of 1-vs-3 to create ONE champion is understandable, although personally I would have left it open.
I'm just trying to point out that lineal is not as clear cut as you suggested.

You said 1 vs 2, no mention of 3 or any special circumstances, and also stated it as clear cut. And the recognition of 1 vs 3 is a Ring thing not a lineal thing.

I know exactly how both policies work, so we are both in the same page.

As for lineal, the subjectiveness on judgements about who are the top ranked fighters, is a problem that extends to vacancies in strictly lineal championships and my entire argument.

Yes I do not feel Wlad should have been declared the lineal champ. Sounds like we have some common ground here now.

The reason I bring up the Vitali/Saunders fight, is that they ranked them 1 vs 2. I find it odd that fans wouldn't recognise this fight, but were happy to accept 1 vs 3. Again it highlights the problem of determining a concensus #1 and #2.

I do agree that Wlad was the #1 heavyweight throughout that period.

Now can we agree that Fury's claim to the lineal title, involving what we have discussed with Wlad, retirement for mental heath and drug related issues, his 2 year back dated ban etc, is very flimsy?