Was Mahatma Gandhi a racist?

[Gandalf]

That is debatable Tito. I think the differences are real but the reasons aren't completely known. However, you are right there is a lot of focus on education. Many asian students have a firmer theoretical understanding of English grammar than the Brits do for example. They are better at maths and sciences. It's the same in all East Asian countries. Very smart people. IQ difference between races is factual and I don't think that is racist. It should be a kick up the bum to whites and blacks to sort themselves out and aspire hire. If me and Beanz can achieve distinctions in Masters or Undergraduate programmes despite warped childhoods then so can others. I don't feel inferior. It just makes me want to study harder. It can be a motivating force rather than a means for division. I've nothing against anybody of any color and especially if they are doing their best. It's all you can do. Plenty of smart people of every race out there, but the stats are what they are. Very few of us in any race are going to be Einsteinian anyway.

[Gandalf]

-5IQ miles....hire! 😃

[TitoFan]

That is debatable Tito. I think the differences are real but the reasons aren't completely known. However, you are right there is a lot of focus on education. Many asian students have a firmer theoretical understanding of English grammar than the Brits do for example. They are better at maths and sciences. It's the same in all East Asian countries. Very smart people. IQ difference between races is factual and I don't think that is racist. It should be a kick up the bum to whites and blacks to sort themselves out and aspire hire. If me and Beanz can achieve distinctions in Masters or Undergraduate programmes despite warped childhoods then so can others. I don't feel inferior. It just makes me want to study harder. It can be a motivating force rather than a means for division. I've nothing against anybody of any color and especially if they are doing their best. It's all you can do. Plenty of smart people of every race out there, but the stats are what they are. Very few of us in any race are going to be Einsteinian anyway.

If my parents ingrain the importance of education in me, and pretty much encourage/force me to get a college degree, I'm naturally going to have more knowledge and do better at IQ tests than Joe Blow across the street whose parents were dope addicts and couldn't care less whether their son went to school or not. They'll tell him to be street-smart, and forget all this college nonsense. Multiply that times thousands and thousands, and some people will be making up generalities supposedly associated with racial DNA.

[brocktonblockbust]

]Tito with all due respect and little ginger aside that argument you just made about the bums across the street on drugs as opposed to other parents encouraging kids to go to college and be professional only makes sense when looking at a very small let's say microcosm/neighborhood or a city in a certain culture.

How about this my friend? How about the people in Congo or in Brazil as opposed to the people in Belgium or in Finland? How come the people in Belgium and Finland all have extremely high literacy and college degrees and the people in Congo and Brazil are peasant illiterate and ignorant?

are you saying that we cannot make the statement that the white people in Belgium and Finland had more sense let's say or had more Focus let's say on sending their kids to University and that the people in Brazil and in the Congo and in Cameroon and in Malawi and in Angola did not have the same intelligence? why didn't those people in Cameroon and in Congo for example build universities and take part in scientific and mathematical and philosophical establishment of educational institutions on par with Europe?

Can that all be just explained away by blaming white people? Hell there are some places in the world that white people believe it or not have not yet gone to to conquer or to colonize so what then would be the excuse for those native indigenous people who cannot now blame white people?

[TitoFan]

Brock it's not about blaming anyone, much less white people. It's when we try and assign blame where none is assignable that arguments fall apart. Break down my argument into its essence. It's not all encouraging parents vs non-encouraging ones. It's about circumstances. Surely you realize people from Belgium and Finland have more opportunities just being born than people (generally) in the Congo or Angola. Does that make them dumber or with lower IQ because they're black or African or whatever other label we want to assign to them? No. We're all born pretty much anatomically the same, but in various models. Some white... some black... some with round eyes... other with slanted ones. But we're born into circumstances, the reality of our lives. Then we have parental influence. Motumbo's parents over in Angola probably live meal to meal, and education for little Motumbo is the further thing from their minds, probably not having an education themselves. If Motumbo doesn't adequately pass an IQ test, it's not because he's black or from Angola. It's because of his living circumstances, since the day he was born. IQ tests are largely flawed. There's plenty of literature on that. They fail to take into account numerous factors, including the ability for some people to take tests and do well in them. I studied with brilliant people who did poorly on tests because taking tests was their Achilles heel.

Quit making everything about blame. I prefer to focus on the argument at hand.

[brocktonblockbust]

If you go back to thousand years why would a kid born in Belgium have any advantage over a kid born in Angola? Or let's make it five thousand years. I'm not talking about since the industrial revolution of course a kid born in 1950 in Belgium has an advantage over a kid born in 1950 in Angola. But the whole question has to be asked that before One race started to mess around or colonize with another race how is it that Belgium or Europe was already on the path to scientific discovery and the foundation of educational institutions even 2000 years ago or so thanks to the Romans of course and the Greeks and the Egyptians before them but still Egypt is right there in Africa why wasn't that culture spread around to other parts of Africa? Then you have the philosophers of Greece and a Babylon and Persia all contributing to Scientific breakthroughs. but if you go back a couple of thousand years they were all living poor in the desert just like little motombo

*****JUST LIKE LITTLE MUTOMBO****

so what was the difference then, just random chance?

shall we not be inclined to make sweeping generalizations based on the course of the last three or four thousand years of human history prior to the Industrial Revolution?

[Beanz]

That is debatable Tito. I think the differences are real but the reasons aren't completely known. However, you are right there is a lot of focus on education. Many asian students have a firmer theoretical understanding of English grammar than the Brits do for example. They are better at maths and sciences. It's the same in all East Asian countries. Very smart people. IQ difference between races is factual and I don't think that is racist. It should be a kick up the bum to whites and blacks to sort themselves out and aspire hire. If me and Beanz can achieve distinctions in Masters or Undergraduate programmes despite warped childhoods then so can others. I don't feel inferior. It just makes me want to study harder. It can be a motivating force rather than a means for division. I've nothing against anybody of any color and especially if they are doing their best. It's all you can do. Plenty of smart people of every race out there, but the stats are what they are. Very few of us in any race are going to be Einsteinian anyway.

Thank you for acknowledging that I am not a complete thicko. Murray and Peterson etc love the idea that they are brave truth tellers that are not afraid of being unpopular or telling uncomfortable truths. They think it boosts their credibility but the reason the Bell Curve and other primitive racist studies fell out of the pubic consciousness was because they were soundly disproved by the scientific community. Putting it simply they can believe there are differences in IQ between 'races' but the Science say's NO. It is this obsession with order and wanting a 'God' figure to have neat little answers that leads them around the garden path.

"To end up with systematic genetic differences in intelligence between large, ancient populations, the selective forces driving those differences would need to have been enormous. What’s more, those forces would have to have acted across entire continents, with wildly different environments, and have been persistent over tens of thousands of years of tremendous cultural change. Such a scenario is not just speculative – I would argue it is inherently and deeply implausible.

The bottom line is this. While genetic variation may help to explain why one person is more intelligent than another, there are unlikely to be stable and systematic genetic differences that make one population more intelligent than the next."


https://www.theguardian.com/science/...s-are-unlikely

[brocktonblockbust]

on the contrary I CAN see how those conditions would vary so greatly and remain relatively constant over a very long period of time so as to have those kinds of great differences in general intelligence