Did Inoue step on Payano's foot before landing the right?

[brocktonblockbust]

I also felt that the lead left foot of the Japanese fighter did not move until after he landed the follow up straight right hand.

I like the interpretation of the subconscious sort of presumption of "YOU HIT ME THEN I HIT YOU", almost as a given in the Dominican Fighters mind, then a little hitch--- first I thought his foot has been stepped on, that little hitch,---- the interpretation above is also more psychological rather than physical as I had first proposed.

[Yuzo]

I also felt that the lead left foot of the Japanese fighter did not move until after he landed the follow up straight right hand.

I like the interpretation of the subconscious sort of presumption of "YOU HIT ME THEN I HIT YOU", almost as a given in the Dominican Fighters mind, then a little hitch--- first I thought his foot has been stepped on, that little hitch,---- the interpretation above is also more psychological rather than physical as I had first proposed.

thats right. i think that little pause after the jab got payano thinking whatever inoue was doing was over, and in that lapse, gets hit. inoue just had the right mind to notice it to pull the trigger there. i think its more to timing instincts and reflexes, rather than, he put his foot x and he put his hand y, so thats why he got hit. i think that approach is overthinking. i think boxing is more instinctive than it is intellectual.

[greynotsoold]

All he did was jab then pivot on his left foot to cut the distance the right had to travel and to get all his weight turning on the punch. It also moved him out of line for the other guy's left hand.

not so.



left foot never moves. right foot moves only after the punch has landed. body stays in one place. no pivoting or fancy moving around him as you are implying.

He very clearly does pivot as he throws the right hand; look where he ends up at the end.

[greynotsoold]

And he did step on Payano's foot.

[Yuzo]

All he did was jab then pivot on his left foot to cut the distance the right had to travel and to get all his weight turning on the punch. It also moved him out of line for the other guy's left hand.

not so.



left foot never moves. right foot moves only after the punch has landed. body stays in one place. no pivoting or fancy moving around him as you are implying.

He very clearly does pivot as he throws the right hand; look where he ends up at the end.

this differs from your claim that he jabs, then steps into a different location to throw a right hand.



looks like he throws the right hand from the same place he threw the jab. he only moves elsewhere after the punch lands. but that seemed to be to get out of the way, than a tactic to set up an angle for a punch that he had already threw.

[brocktonblockbust]

Joe that is a great post. You know instinctively I just felt without seeing their feet in the video that I watched that something happened to Payanos lead right foot, the way in which he slightly squares up even if it's just by a centimeter or two is rather odd and you would not think of taking that defensive position after getting hit with a jab.

Yuzo also makes that great point that is instinctual and not calculated sometimes

[J_Undisputed]

Grey's got it correct. Inoue does pivot but doesn't get to fully pivot because his heel steps on Payano's foot. Payano's knee keeps Inoue from completing the revolution or Inoue is forced to turn from the waist up instead of fulling getting his hips and lower body into the transfer of energy.

Most of the time when guys are hesitating, its to get the angle or distance on a punch. In this instance, Inoue is jabbing and then stepping and pivoting to get around that lead arm take it out of the equation and find his angle. Most martial arts start with a footwork system designed to exploit attack angles. if you jab a guy and he goes straight back, (you're at his 12 on a clock face) you're just closing the distance because hes squared up and you can funnel shots through the guard (he can too though but you can see them coming). If he turns or pivots off (and your at his 3 or 9 you can still find his head over his shoulder or loop shots around his elbows to the body or uppercuts toward his chin if you're close enough ..all from a safe spot. if he pivots off and you're at his 10 or 2 o'clock, his head tends to be behind his lead glove, elbow and shoulder... if his guard is high and if his body is bladed you can't see the power hand which is lined up to your 12 o clock if he turns into you... His head could be where you think it is and his power hand could be scratching his @$$ or he could be lining you up to drop the hammer on you... so you hesitate while you're adjusting while finding you attack angle or closing the distance.

Otherwise you're gambling on whats behind door number one...
A. you shoot a shot around his lead glove (sacrificing distance you get from the full extension of a straight punch) at where you think his head is... you happen to have just enough to land it. maybe he goes down or to sleep....
B. The shot you loop is just on the inside of the lead hand and in perfect position to be parried and taken down while he counters with the power hand to the now unprotected side of your chin/temple/face.
C. You're not close enough because you didn't take that extra step and you fall short, leaving you overextended and off balance... (see B. )
D. You shot a straight punch for the sake of continuing an all out assault, He takes it on the lead glove/ elbow/ shoulder and turns into you with the ugliest counter you've never seen (See B.)
E. You throw to the body and land something that maybe doesn't have much on it or he turns away and the ref calls it a kidney punch. The point is you take your hand away from your face to deliver a low percentage shot and well... you know where it goes from there.

It's a nasty proposition by the numbers. Most fighters work based on throwing punches based on target acquisition, (which is why so many fights look awful after their reflexes go and they see the target but cant pull the trigger). It pays to take that extra step to get distance or angle.

[TitoFan]

You guys are too technical for me..... but I like the analysis.


Inoue is definitely amazing.... no doubt about that. Too bad in a way Payano got caught flush and cold. The first round is usually a bad time to take a punch like that.... you haven't tasted too much leather yet, and the shock of a flush shot can be devastating. The same punch in a later round floors him for sure, but may not have knocked him clean out. That being said, it takes nothing away from the amazing-ness that is Inoue. If Emmanuel Rodriguez gets past Moloney, which by all rights he should, he's got a tall task ahead of him if it's Inoue standing in his way. I'll still be rooting for my boy, though.

[Yuzo]

In this instance, Inoue is jabbing and then stepping

this didnt happen. there was no additional step.

Inoue does pivot but doesn't get to fully pivot because his heel steps on Payano's foot. Payano's knee keeps Inoue from completing the revolution or Inoue is forced to turn from the waist up instead of fulling getting his hips and lower body into the transfer of energy.

it sounds like you are saying that he would have pivoted himself into a new location to get a different angle to throw his right hand, if payano's knee didnt get in the way? why are you assuming he needs a different angle to throw his right hand? this is what i mean by overthinking.

[brocktonblockbust]

Yeah those guys definitely blew me out of the water with that detail. All I knew was and I'm glad at least I got it right that the Japanese guy stepped on the Dominican guys foot and I firmly believe that let him to more easily land the knockout punch

[p4pking]

If he did step on his foot, it just adds to the craft really. Inoperable is a serious killer. There was a thread a while back about which top fighter was likely to lose first, a lot of people picked him due to his competition, and I kind of agreed, but no longer. Only way this guy loses is if he moves up in weight any more than he can carry.

[p4pking]

Hahaha, Inoperable is a very apt auto correct.

[J_Undisputed]

In this instance, Inoue is jabbing and then stepping

this didnt happen. there was no additional step.

Inoue does pivot but doesn't get to fully pivot because his heel steps on Payano's foot. Payano's knee keeps Inoue from completing the revolution or Inoue is forced to turn from the waist up instead of fulling getting his hips and lower body into the transfer of energy.

it sounds like you are saying that he would have pivoted himself into a new location to get a different angle to throw his right hand, if payano's knee didnt get in the way? why are you assuming he needs a different angle to throw his right hand? this is what i mean by overthinking.

He was stepping into a power jab. One motion two different things going on. You're stepping into it to get more power into it but you're gaining ground. When his foot plants as/after the jab is making contact, it becomes the pivoting point for the right hand to come across. He wouldn't move into a new position if Payano's knee wasn't there, but fully turn into the Payanos pocket (12 o clock) and put more force on the right hand. Stepping on Payano's foot might have inhibited him a little because his footing may not have been secure, but it doesn't look like much because hes going to push off and pivot on that foot anyway to get force on the right hand as he turns into him. Pacquiao would do the same thing (blitz you by Stepping in with Power Jab / doubling up on the jab to get you going back and then come across with his left as you pivoted away) only he was a tad more linear because he used to come in faster (which left him open into be turned by his opponents if they countered with hooks and controlled his head as they pivoted off)

https://media.giphy.com/media/ftr02sdQkAWOs/giphy.gif
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[Yuzo]

In this instance, Inoue is jabbing and then stepping

this didnt happen. there was no additional step.

Inoue does pivot but doesn't get to fully pivot because his heel steps on Payano's foot. Payano's knee keeps Inoue from completing the revolution or Inoue is forced to turn from the waist up instead of fulling getting his hips and lower body into the transfer of energy.

it sounds like you are saying that he would have pivoted himself into a new location to get a different angle to throw his right hand, if payano's knee didnt get in the way? why are you assuming he needs a different angle to throw his right hand? this is what i mean by overthinking.

He was stepping into a power jab. One motion two different things going on. You're stepping into it to get more power into it but you're gaining ground. When his foot plants as/after the jab is making contact, it becomes the pivoting point for the right hand to come across. He wouldn't move into a new position if Payano's knee wasn't there, but fully turn into the Payanos pocket (12 o clock) and put more force on the right hand. Stepping on Payano's foot might have inhibited him a little because his footing may not have been secure, but it doesn't look like much because hes going to push off and pivot on that foot anyway to get force on the right hand as he turns into him. Pacquiao would do the same thing (blitz you by Stepping in with Power Jab / doubling up on the jab to get you going back and then come across with his left as you pivoted away) only he was a tad more linear because he used to come in faster (which left him open into be turned by his opponents if they countered with hooks and controlled his head as they pivoted off)

https://media.giphy.com/media/ftr02sdQkAWOs/giphy.gif
https://media.giphy.com/media/iDQu74NOpLva0/giphy.gif
https://media1.tenor.com/images/b2f8...itemid=5387110
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this doesnt explain the original claim that he moved himself into a different location to throw his right hand from a new angle. you are contradicting that point here.

When his foot plants as/after the jab is making contact, it becomes the pivoting point for the right hand to come across.

if as you say, he throws his right hand from the same place he threw his jab, then the claim that he threw his jab and then moved to somewhere else to throw his right hand cant be true. it has to be one or the other.



the timeline to me seems to be that he throws a jab, waits a little, throws a right hand, then starts to move out of the way after the right hand landed, and not before that. any other interpretation seems like a hasty way to force it to fit into an unrelated narrative.

it also doesnt explain why he would need to throw his right hand from a different angle here in the first place. that strikes me as being a really excessive process to go through to throw the right hand.

i didnt see him step on payano's foot, but maybe he did. can you tell me where on his foot i should be looking at and when so i can understand the relevance of this event? i can blow it up slow it down and make a gif out of it.

i dont really understand the relevance of the pacquio gifs as they pertain to step arounds. for the record this is what a step around looks like.

[Alpha]

If Emmanuel Rodriguez gets past Moloney, which by all rights he should, he's got a tall task ahead of him if it's Inoue standing in his way. I'll still be rooting for my boy, though.

Rodriguez should navigate Moloney without any scares. So he will be meeting Inoue in the semi's. Pity, it could have been the final with a different bracket. We still get the fight, and earlier than the finals would be. I think Rodriguez is the 2nd best at 118 based on a head to head, but I just don't see how he beats Inoue. No shame in taking a loss to The Monster tho.