Terence Crawford- the best P4P in the sport today!

[p4pking]

If you want to claim Crawford P4P no.1 due to the "eye test" then fine but to try and spin his wins as even on a par with Loma is ridiculous. All this hoopla from beating a no-mark in Benavidez, a man who self-proclaimed "hardcores" were getting confused with his brother in the build up.

Crawford is without doubt a P4P worthy elite, however, the man quite simply is lacking a top drawer dance partner. He has never fought anyone getting close to the HOF.

Loma has, though? Linares, regardless of potential, did get iced by all of his best opponents prior. Walters looked good in one fight..... I’m not sure where you get ridiculous from? Postol and Gamboa were very good fighters, I just don’t see any real gulf at all...

[powerpuncher]

If you want to claim Crawford P4P no.1 due to the "eye test" then fine but to try and spin his wins as even on a par with Loma is ridiculous. All this hoopla from beating a no-mark in Benavidez, a man who self-proclaimed "hardcores" were getting confused with his brother in the build up.

Crawford is without doubt a P4P worthy elite, however, the man quite simply is lacking a top drawer dance partner. He has never fought anyone getting close to the HOF.

Loma has, though? Linares, regardless of potential, did get iced by all of his best opponents prior. Walters looked good in one fight..... I’m not sure where you get ridiculous from? Postol and Gamboa were very good fighters, I just don’t see any real gulf at all...

I’m not claiming that Crawford has fought an elite opponent, but everyone keeps bringing up Linares for Loma as if he were elite. Linares is a solid fighter but is not a career defining kind of fight IMO. Linares had been stopped many times before and had close fights with decent fighters.

Walters is hard to gauge because he looked good before but took a ton of time off and just looked out of it for the Loma fight. He then hasn’t fought again. Again, not at all a bad win, but just don’t know how much better of a win than Crawford’s win against Postol.

[p4pking]

That’s all I was saying.

[Alpha]

If you want to claim Crawford P4P no.1 due to the "eye test" then fine but to try and spin his wins as even on a par with Loma is ridiculous. All this hoopla from beating a no-mark in Benavidez, a man who self-proclaimed "hardcores" were getting confused with his brother in the build up.

Crawford is without doubt a P4P worthy elite, however, the man quite simply is lacking a top drawer dance partner. He has never fought anyone getting close to the HOF.

Loma has, though? Linares, regardless of potential, did get iced by all of his best opponents prior. Walters looked good in one fight..... I’m not sure where you get ridiculous from? Postol and Gamboa were very good fighters, I just don’t see any real gulf at all...

I’m not claiming that Crawford has fought an elite opponent, but everyone keeps bringing up Linares for Loma as if he were elite. Linares is a solid fighter but is not a career defining kind of fight IMO. Linares had been stopped many times before and had close fights with decent fighters.

Walters is hard to gauge because he looked good before but took a ton of time off and just looked out of it for the Loma fight. He then hasn’t fought again. Again, not at all a bad win, but just don’t know how much better of a win than Crawford’s win against Postol.

Fenster and I already went through this before. Fenster likes to ignore the fact that Loma lost to the best guy he fought, sure there were circumstances surrounding that fight, weight, low blows, Loma's '2nd' fight etc. But at the end of the day he lost to Salido who was considered the Ring's #1 going into that fight. Linares might get to the HOF but that doesn't mean sh-t these days, Gatti is in there for example. Also Linares was crowned Ring champ in a #1 vs #3 fight. On this forum, the only guy I think that has had Linares anywhere near P4P since his losses was Spicoli. Rigo? He might get into the HOF as well, but he had to move up 2 divisions for that fight, and what was his elite win again? Donaire, who did his best work at 112.

I also view Russell Jr as Loma's best win.

I see no reason that the Postol and Walters wins can't be considered similar. What were Walters' best wins again? Donaire and Vic? Guys who were at their best at Flyweight. Crawford fought Postal at 140 after Postal had defeated the #1 guy in the division at the time Matthysse.

Indongo was a unified beltholder and if your going to give Linares a pass for his losses, at least Indongo was beaten by top guys.

Crawford was arguably the lineal champ at 135 and 140. Has Loma been lineal yet?

None of these guys have elite wins/ records yet, but no one has a more outstanding record than the others really. If you really want to go by record then Usyk is probably at the top.

[Master]

P4P threads sure get posters animated with their various views and opinions.

[Fenster]

I wouldn't say Linares got beat by all his "best" opponents, Loma beat him when he was a three weight "world" champion, No. 1 ranked lightweight (The Ring champion), unbeaten for half-a-dozen years and had flirted in-and-out of P4P lists for a decade.

Walter's was regarded the no.1 featherweight (The Ring), unbeaten, had sparkos over former elites and was robbed - with a draw - against a man who was "robbed" against Gamboa.

Postol and Gamboa are good fighters but what makes them better on paper than Rigo, Russell Jr, Martinez, Marriaga or Sosa? Loma has a couple of HOFamers on his record inside a dozen fights.

[p4pking]

I didn’t even imply they were better, just that it’s easy to chalk them up to being as good. Linares truly had lost to the best guys he fought before loma, that’s pretty hard to argue imo.
I’m not about to say that lomanchenko isn’t great or that the guys he fought so soon into his career isn’t, that wasn’t the point.

[powerpuncher]

I still think that Russell jr is Lomas best win. I think it’s a very underrated win

[Fenster]

I didn’t even imply they were better, just that it’s easy to chalk them up to being as good. Linares truly had lost to the best guys he fought before loma, that’s pretty hard to argue imo.
I’m not about to say that lomanchenko isn’t great or that the guys he fought so soon into his career isn’t, that wasn’t the point.

Yeah and i'm just saying in my opinion Loma's opp is superior and it's pretty clear.

[Alpha]

I didn’t even imply they were better, just that it’s easy to chalk them up to being as good. Linares truly had lost to the best guys he fought before loma, that’s pretty hard to argue imo.
I’m not about to say that lomanchenko isn’t great or that the guys he fought so soon into his career isn’t, that wasn’t the point.

Yeah and i'm just saying in my opinion Loma's opp is superior and it's pretty clear.

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on Loma and Usyk's records and comparisons.

What do you consider Loma's 3 best wins?

[Fenster]

I didn’t even imply they were better, just that it’s easy to chalk them up to being as good. Linares truly had lost to the best guys he fought before loma, that’s pretty hard to argue imo.
I’m not about to say that lomanchenko isn’t great or that the guys he fought so soon into his career isn’t, that wasn’t the point.

Yeah and i'm just saying in my opinion Loma's opp is superior and it's pretty clear.

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on Loma and Usyk's records and comparisons.

What do you consider Loma's 3 best wins?

You're accussing me of "bias" and "deception" for offering a blase opinion about who is best in a MYTHICAL sense? What? Since when have I ever "ignored" Loma's loss to Salido?

Mikey had ONE FIGHT at 135 against Zlaticanin, your precious WBC belt was the one stripped from Linares. Linares went unbeaten for SIX YEARS at 135 picking up the WBC, WBA and RING belt along the way.

And yet I still conceded to you guys Mikey was no.1 because YOU KNOW Mikey kills Linares. YOU KNOW who wins before fighters even meet.

"Bias, lies and deception" in a silly fantasy scenario based solely on ones personal preference!!! Laughable.

[Alpha]

I didn’t even imply they were better, just that it’s easy to chalk them up to being as good. Linares truly had lost to the best guys he fought before loma, that’s pretty hard to argue imo.
I’m not about to say that lomanchenko isn’t great or that the guys he fought so soon into his career isn’t, that wasn’t the point.

Yeah and i'm just saying in my opinion Loma's opp is superior and it's pretty clear.

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on Loma and Usyk's records and comparisons.

What do you consider Loma's 3 best wins?

You're accussing me of "bias" and "deception" for offering a blase opinion about who is best in a MYTHICAL sense? What? Since when have I ever "ignored" Loma's loss to Salido?

Mikey had ONE FIGHT at 135 against Zlaticanin, your precious WBC belt was the one stripped from Linares. Linares went unbeaten for SIX YEARS at 135 picking up the WBC, WBA and RING belt along the way.

And yet I still conceded to you guys Mikey was no.1 because YOU KNOW Mikey kills Linares. YOU KNOW who wins before fighters even meet.

"Bias, lies and deception" in a silly fantasy scenario based solely on ones personal preference!!! Laughable.

Hold fire, comparing opposition is not mythical, P4P is. With opposition there is more to go on. I'm just trying to understand why you rate Loma's record so highly, when compared to others in that group it's all pretty even. I know your a Loma fan, so am I. But his record is far from a murderers row.

Linares was facing weak opposition over that time, after being stopped twice by guys who I don't think many would have considered top 10 going in.

Mikey may beat Linares, but that's not what I said, I said Garcia was #1.

[Ron Swanson]

I wouldn't say Linares got beat by all his "best" opponents, Loma beat him when he was a three weight "world" champion, No. 1 ranked lightweight (The Ring champion), unbeaten for half-a-dozen years and had flirted in-and-out of P4P lists for a decade.

Walter's was regarded the no.1 featherweight (The Ring), unbeaten, had sparkos over former elites and was robbed - with a draw - against a man who was "robbed" against Gamboa.

Postol and Gamboa are good fighters but what makes them better on paper than Rigo, Russell Jr, Martinez, Marriaga or Sosa? Loma has a couple of HOFamers on his record inside a dozen fights.

Nobody in their right mind would pick Linares over Garcia so take the thought he was number 1 at LW and discard it because it’s simply not true.

[Ron Swanson]

For example, who, if anyone, I won’t even say beat. Who thinks Linares could see round 10 against Garcia?

[Alpha]

I wouldn't say Linares got beat by all his "best" opponents, Loma beat him when he was a three weight "world" champion, No. 1 ranked lightweight (The Ring champion), unbeaten for half-a-dozen years and had flirted in-and-out of P4P lists for a decade.

Walter's was regarded the no.1 featherweight (The Ring), unbeaten, had sparkos over former elites and was robbed - with a draw - against a man who was "robbed" against Gamboa.

Postol and Gamboa are good fighters but what makes them better on paper than Rigo, Russell Jr, Martinez, Marriaga or Sosa? Loma has a couple of HOFamers on his record inside a dozen fights.

Nobody in their right mind would pick Linares over Garcia so take the thought he was number 1 at LW and discard it because it’s simply not true.

Exactly, Garcia was still the WBC lightweight champ, so had to be considered among the 135 pound ratings. Just like Canelo will still be considered among the 160 rankings, unless he states he is permanently moving up or doesn't fight at 160 for over a year.

It's also the reason Wlad was never lineal champ, because Vitali was still WBC champ and no would have rated Povetkin or Chagaev above Vitali.

Also I think the initial statement was that Postol and co were on par with guys on Loma's record, trying to make out that Marriaga, Sosa and Martinez are better wins than Benavidez, Horn, Indongo, Diaz, Molina, Postol, Dulorme, Beltran, Gamboa and Burns is a deception and not seeing them on par at least presents a clear bias.

Rigo may get into the HOF but it won't be for anything he did at 130. I would be surprised if Linares gets into the hall.