Should transgenered people be allowed to box?

[smashup]

So...

We have a thread in which those pissed off that there is not a fight..engineer one. A mod starts calling other posters names, in a very girly childish playground way. Suggests that everyone else join in and help bully a poster for not being a prick, and then turns around and accuse everyone else of doing not just that, but getting turned on by it too .


Then unlikely allies, the mod and the 'EVERYONE IS RANTING BUT ME !!!' chap,....shocked to find themselves singing from the the same hymn sheet, engineer another reason to fall out with each other.

Don't you have your Tommy Robinson 3-ring circus thread to run off to?

@Beanz

What's with the shouty capitals We can all read you in small font. One might think you were beginning to rant in your oversized font.

Still waiting for an intelligent answer... who wins and why?

The shouty capitals are just a device to convey the apoplectic reaction of Tito to somebody thanking Ron for a post. It is not that easy to push my buttons. Want to explain this?


You have been banned for the following reason:
Offensive sized font usage
Date the ban will be lifted: 03-12-2019, 10:00 AM

I wouldn't usually bother but after my last perma ban and Tito pretending that the British mods had my back I thought I would make it clear you can be just as much of a cunt as all the other Brits here.

Ludicrous.

@Beanz

It would seem your buttons are easily pushed when it comes to off topic racist posts however... at the risk of sounding repetitive, perhaps you could answer the fucking question

Not at all. If you want to believe that having a different opinion is the same as my buttons being easy to push then you are thicker than I thought you were. Either that or you are as gullible as Miles and Tito to buying into the angry poster bullshit. The only posters losing their rag in this thread are you and Tito, you big girls blouse


If you really want an answer to the question you posed your new girlfriend Tito, then perhaps you could restore my avatars, grow up a bit and drop the attitude. A 9 week ban because I pointed out what a twat you were for calling a fellow mod in Master a racist? Now after encouraging everyone to bully a poster for again not being intimidated by you, and because you couldn't grasp that Tito was agreeing with you, you again tried handing me a ban, this time for using capitals to demonstrate how much you are both losing it.

@Beanz

Perhaps once your foreskin is removed you can finally provide an answer to the question this entire thread is actually about. Just 'pull back' for a moment, take a deep breath and think about 'retracting' your statement and stop acting like a helmet.

[Beanz]

Everyone sing along with me..... in a football terrace tune.....

"Swansons got a vag hole, Swansons got a vag hole, la la la la, la la la la"

"Swansons got a.....

It's not just twisting it to tear down a case nobody is making. (Brilliantly put) It is including and dragging in posters who haven't even posted in the thread and inventing positions and arguments for them, never made.

No Beanz... ...you hadn't posted. You just "thanked" Swanson for his diametrically opposed view where he rushed to pull the "sexist" fire alarm handle without bothering to think about what is being said.

No wonder Miles rightly accuses you of backing off of statements you've clearly made or positions you've made distinctively clear.

Like I told Fenny..... man up to what you say and do, and everyone will respect you all the more for it.

To be honest if I could have given him a high five, shook his hand or bought him a pint, I would have. You are not really helping yourself shrug off the sexist label by telling people to man up either. I don't know where your hostility is coming from, but the opening post was about a transgender man, so Spicoli was bang on with his description of people wanting to manufacture an argument where there is not one. I am assuming like me you are way too old to box anymore, so what exactly is the problem? Like Ron says if a female boxer does not want to fight a transgender women then I would be quite surprised if they were mandated to do so against their wishes. Every boxer makes this choice, whoever they fight.

You are basically arguing for removing the choice of other people. You brought me into the thread and now you are moaning about me expressing/not expressing my opinion it seems? At this point I have no idea what the fuck you are actually on about. You certainly are not taking the brave stand you think you are. The forum today on International Women's Day could not be any more hostile to women if it tried. I work with female boxers, ring card girls etc and they all have a lot more bottle and frankly 'balls' then a lot of the posturing alpha males strutting their stuff here. It is 2019 for crying out loud. In gyms all over the world, amateur and pro shows, girls and women are dedicating themselves to the noble art with just as much heart and soul as the men and boys, and yet here they are still seen as a novelty.

I haven't backed off anything I have said, whatever Miles may claim. The fact that Ron, who works with fighters every day, is able to make a reasoned and sensible, nuanced series of points without resorting to the bloody neanderthal conservative black and white argument that often passes for debate here is refreshing.

So...

We have a thread in which those pissed off that there is not a fight..engineer one. A mod starts calling other posters names, in a very girly childish playground way. Suggests that everyone else join in and help bully a poster for not being a prick, and then turns around and accuse everyone else of doing not just that, but getting turned on by it too .


Then unlikely allies, the mod and the 'EVERYONE IS RANTING BUT ME !!!' chap,....shocked to find themselves singing from the the same hymn sheet, engineer another reason to fall out with each other.

Don't you have your Tommy Robinson 3-ring circus thread to run off to?

@Beanz

What's with the shouty capitals We can all read you in small font. One might think you were beginning to rant in your oversized font.

Still waiting for an intelligent answer... who wins and why?

The shouty capitals are just a device to convey the apoplectic reaction of Tito to somebody thanking Ron for a post. It is not that easy to push my buttons. Want to explain this?


You have been banned for the following reason:
Offensive sized font usage
Date the ban will be lifted: 03-12-2019, 10:00 AM

I wouldn't usually bother but after my last perma ban and Tito pretending that the British mods had my back I thought I would make it clear you can be just as much of a cunt as all the other Brits here.

Ludicrous.

@Beanz

It would seem your buttons are easily pushed when it comes to off topic racist posts however... at the risk of sounding repetitive, perhaps you could answer the fucking question

Not at all. If you want to believe that having a different opinion is the same as my buttons being easy to push then you are thicker than I thought you were. Either that or you are as gullible as Miles and Tito to buying into the angry poster bullshit. The only posters losing their rag in this thread are you and Tito, you big girls blouse


If you really want an answer to the question you posed your new girlfriend Tito, then perhaps you could restore my avatars, grow up a bit and drop the attitude. A 9 week ban because I pointed out what a twat you were for calling a fellow mod in Master a racist? Now after encouraging everyone to bully a poster for again not being intimidated by you, and because you couldn't grasp that Tito was agreeing with you, you again tried handing me a ban, this time for using capitals to demonstrate how much you are both losing it.

@Beanz

Perhaps once your foreskin is removed you can finally provide an answer to the question this entire thread is actually about. Just 'pull back' for a moment, take a deep breath and think about 'retracting' your statement and stop acting like a helmet.

Not really covering yourself in glory here mate.

I already answered the question. You seem to want to tell people what they are allowed to do and not, including boxers. I would let the fighters decide for themselves. They are adults. Transgender people across all sports is a big and complex issue that will have to be dealt with and Ron is right, not so long ago people questioned common sense things we take for granted today.

I would not tell women they could not box. I encouraged my daughter to learn how to defend herself just like I will my granddaughter. You may think that irrelevant, but plenty of lads on here think women, and certainly girls, should not be allowed to box, even now.

The opening post was about a female to male transgender boxer but that was turned into an excuse for Tito to have a pop at male to female transgender boxers fighting women. The only people demanding anything are you two. He is demanding that he should have the right to decide and not even giving them the right to be called a woman, and you are demanding everyone returns to the level of the playground. You are both acting like bullies, only you have added a racial/ethnic/religious element, (including an explicit picture of your own shriveled knob for some weird reason ) despite being a mod.

Anyone would think you don't want trainers,boxers and those interested in taking up the sport to post here.


Hope that helps.

[TitoFan]

You seem to want to tell people what they are allowed to do and not, including boxers. I would let the fighters decide for themselves. They are adults.

In this whole big forum, you alone have mastered the art of taking what other people say and turning it into something 180° different. You've consistently chosen to ignore what some women boxers themselves have been quoted as saying. Why is that Beanz? Why do you, the self-proclaimed defender of women and transgenders, choose to ignore the quotes of women who say they do not agree with transgender fighting women boxers, and that they themselves would not get in a ring with them? Why? Quit your deluded posturing and answer a simple question. But what the fuck am I thinking. You..... the King of Never Answering a Question with a Straight Answer. Lyle has accused you of that. Miles has accused of that. You know what? They're absolutely correct. You are genetically incapable of answering a simple question with a straight answer. Feel cornered... and you reach for straws the whole fucking bale.

Transgender people across all sports is a big and complex issue that will have to be dealt with

Yes is it... and no one has said anything to the contrary. But you've still ignored not only the words of women boxers on the topic... but the video clip of the transgender football player that Smashup posted. A video clip with some very damning statements about what it takes to consider a transgender totally transformed into a female. In fact..... it is highly hypocritical of you to blabber on about women's rights this, and women's rights that..... and then ignore the instances where transgender "females" are given the go-ahead to participate in women's sports with a very light regard for the safety of the women participants who were born women.

The opening post was about a female to male transgender boxer but that was turned into an excuse for Tito to have a pop at male to female transgender boxers fighting women.

This alone speaks volumes as to why you have zilch respect or credibility here. "An excuse to have a pop at male to female transgender boxers fighting women"?? First of all, as you've chosen to ignore all along, there was a previous post by someone who said if it's a transgender male fighting men, he has no problem. If it's the other way around, absolutely not. No of course not. You homed in on my post, because you have a hard-on for transgenders and anything I post on the subject brings the Pavlovian knee-jerk reaction out of you. Had you bothered to read the post, you would have noticed that right away I posted the link quoting women boxers. Also, were you to have an ounce of gray matter between the ears, you would have seen that my only intent was to express my concern about the safety of women boxers. Does what happened with Fallon Fox in MMA mean nothing to you? You? The Dalai Lama of women's rights and women's boxing? What a fucking joke you are.

A "pop"?? Are you serious? No wonder you are so hated, pal. No wonder you bring out the hate in the dozen or more posters I already listed. Man up to your mistakes, like I said earlier to you, and you'll save the nano-ounce of credibility you've got left.

He is demanding that he should have the right to decide and not even giving them the right to be called a woman,

I am deciding that I should have the right to decide.... blah, blah, blah?? You know what..... two can play that game, Beanz.

You openly said you'd like to witness a transgender woman seriously injure a woman boxer. Yeah.... that would advance the cause, and show that transgender women can box too. You are all for it. In your callous disregard for women's safety, you have demanded the right to demand (excuse the redundancy) that transgender women fight women boxers....... Christians vs. Lions style. You've shown your desire for that to happen, all for the cause of transgenderism, for which again you seem to have a strange hard-on for. Makes one think. Close relative? Regrettable decision when you were younger? We'll never know will we.

[TitoFan]

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...ender-athletes


"Sports stars weigh in on row over transgender athletes"



It's a serious and controversial issue, and will continue to be so for quite some time. The article correctly points out that those who are against transgenders in women's sports risk being labeled "transphobes" or worse. Even "sexist" as seen on this forum.

In the rush to seem the "all-knowing" and "all-accepting", people like Beanz and others blatantly ignore the opinions of those who matter..... women in sports.

Forget the unfairness of medals being won by transgenders over those born with the female gender, who aside from competing against their own kind, now have to compete with men who have...... "transitioned"..... a term that doesn't even have a consistent set of defining characteristics, and some definitions are loose and flimsy at best.

Forget sports where it's just unfairness, but nobody gets hurt. Let's talk about contact sports. Football, MMA, boxing. Where the real possibility of injury exists. Rather than promoting an even playing field, people like Beanz are promoting the equivalent of someone bringing a rocket launcher to a knife fight.

All veiled in the hypocrisy of wanting to "respect the rights of the transgenders". Hell..... even laughingly evoking the International Women's Week, as if just saying that makes his argument correct. The ironic part is that many women boxers would be loudly questioning that ludicrous set of ideas by saying... "What the hell are you trying to DO to us??"

Yes.... this is a complex, difficult issue. But you don't rip down the rights of one group by defending the "rights" of others. In other words... transgenders want to box? Fine. Do it on a level playing field.

I have no problem with a male who has "transitioned" to a female (or.. cough... identifies as one) practicing the sport of boxing. But do it against MEN. The gender you were BORN with. Be a woman OFF the boxing ring.

Otherwise, it's just men beating up women. Wonderful narrative for that International Women's Week, eh Beanz?

Frankly, I can't believe anyone would stoop so low as to argue this issue and twist everything that is said into blatant lies. You have to be one FUCKED UP INDIVIDUAL to defend this travesty.

[Gandalf]

I do not see why this thread is complicated. It is common sense that a man who becomes a woman would most likely beat up another 'othodox' woman most of the time. I have been hit by women before and there is no power there. I was also doing my James Toney thing as I wouldn't hit back, but I swear all it would take is a few swings and I would batter her senseless.

Now obviously that is not how I conduct myself. If I was to transition into a woman I would be at an automatic advantage in terms of height at 190 cm. That's not easy for most women at MW/SMW to get around. Women tend to be physically different to men and you cannot get around that fact. This is why I call out chubby men on the forum all the time at a CW. They cannot compete.

Now a regular woman against me following some surgery and some hormones....unless she is implanting leg extensions, she is not going to hit me. I am clever and would work behind the jab and being naturally longer and with more extension batter her any time she tries to get inside. I would clinch, give her a cuddle, then bounce away like a kangaroo. There is a reason short HW's could not get near Wlad without being molested. I look feminine anyway, I probably already have the damn hormones.

[walrus]

Sorry guys don’t mean to but in but I’m reading way too many harsh words to beanz something must be done to quelch this. I must at this point put down my foot and say enough

[Beanz]

Tito why did you not posts quotes from the three female boxers who were quite happy to fight a trans opponent? The ones who had no problem with it and the ones who said with all the steroids around what's the difference? Why did you not post the quote from the female boxer who said bring it on and that the question was just another excuse to portray women as weak?

What is hilarious is how you moan about people going with the flow as though you are making some brave stand, but you and a lot of others here are actually insisting on imposing your own weird version of some kind of political correctness.

You want to decide for other adults. You and Miles have just proven how sexist you both are in both wanting to tell women what they can do. What they are allowed to do. Why can't each boxer decide for themselves?

Like most old fashioned weak men you and Miles etc are seemingly threatened by people choosing to not conform to the very narrow stereotypes you want to impose on them. Do you want to be seen like a nanny state government, brainwashed religious loon or some agenda driven politicaly correct zealot? Because that is what you guys sound like. Let people decide for themselves.

[walrus]

Tito why did you not posts quotes from the three female boxers who were quite happy to fight a trans opponent? The ones who had no problem with it and the ones who said with all the steroids around what's the difference? Why did you not post the quote from the female boxer who said bring it on and that the question was just another excuse to portray women as weak?

What is hilarious is how you moan about people going with the flow as though you are making some brave stand, but you and a lot of others here are actually insisting on imposing your own weird version of some kind of political correctness.

You want to decide for other adults. You and Miles have just proven how sexist you both are in both wanting to tell women what they can do. What they are allowed to do. Why can't each boxer decide for themselves?

Like most old fashioned weak men you and Miles etc are seemingly threatened by people choosing to not conform to the very narrow stereotypes you want to impose on them. Do you want to be seen like a nanny state government, brainwashed religious loon or some agenda driven politicaly correct zealot? Because that is what you guys sound like. Let people decide for themselves.

After reviewing this post I have changed my mind about my most recent post above

[TitoFan]

Tito why did you not posts quotes from the three female boxers who were quite happy to fight a trans opponent? The ones who had no problem with it and the ones who said with all the steroids around what's the difference? Why did you not post the quote from the female boxer who said bring it on and that the question was just another excuse to portray women as weak?

The rest of your post is the same old senseless, tired old gibberish... so I'll only address this part.


Why indeed.


Let's pause for a second Beanz, and I'll give you a moment to reflect on that question..... as I ask anyone reading this to reflect on that same question.

(reflective pause)


So basically what you're saying is..... that it's a majority thing. That if there are some brave women out there who don't mind fighting transgender women..... that it should be ok then..... and all others (women boxers I'm talking about).... the ones who don't want to face transgenders in the ring..... should just shut their mouths because there are a few women out there who don't mind.

Is THAT what you're saying?

I want to make sure I understand correctly, because this is where your stance, argument, credibility, and the whole ball of wax comes tumbling down like so many pins in a bowling alley.

Again, I didn't post the quotes of the "pro-transgender" women boxers.... so (according to you) it's automatically ok to have transgenders fight women boxers, no questions asked.

If just ONE of those who DON'T want to fight transgenders is at some point a champion in her division.... and her mandatory is a transgender..... if she refuses, she gets stripped. If she says why she refuses she'll be ridiculed and ostracized, because society and those erudite people such as yourself have ruled that transgenders have every right to fight women in the ring.

Ironically, it's the same damn bullying you accuse others of. The only bullying here is your own, and you reflect it onto others with your remarkable skill.

Notice, there are no insults in this post.... no name calling. I don't want to dilute the question/statement you've posted because I want everyone to see exactly what the crux of this argument is.



The bottom line here is:

I and a few others do not agree with this because we care and fear for the safety of women boxers. Transgenderism in itself isn't being attacked here, just the notion that if "X" fighter wants to change from a man into a woman and fight women, it's potentially dangerous and shouldn't be approved carte blanche. The definitions of "transitioning" aren't even clear, and the rules are loose and flimsy at best.

You and a few others take this as an affront to the rights of others, and you fall back to your predictable "Oh you're trying to tell others what to do" stance. You care more about the conflict than about seriously talking about the safety of women boxers. You fail to see the forest for the trees.



I'm not going to claim some funny thread victory, like Miles is wont to do....... but in this very serious subject, and judging by your question above...... you haven't got a damn leg to stand on.

In fact, if Alpha was still here, I'd buy HIM a beer (like you'd do with Swanson), and tell him it's ok. That claiming the world is flat is relatively harmless..... next to the ridiculous claims YOU'RE making on this topic.

[Gandalf]

Tito why did you not posts quotes from the three female boxers who were quite happy to fight a trans opponent? The ones who had no problem with it and the ones who said with all the steroids around what's the difference? Why did you not post the quote from the female boxer who said bring it on and that the question was just another excuse to portray women as weak?

What is hilarious is how you moan about people going with the flow as though you are making some brave stand, but you and a lot of others here are actually insisting on imposing your own weird version of some kind of political correctness.

You want to decide for other adults. You and Miles have just proven how sexist you both are in both wanting to tell women what they can do. What they are allowed to do. Why can't each boxer decide for themselves?

Like most old fashioned weak men you and Miles etc are seemingly threatened by people choosing to not conform to the very narrow stereotypes you want to impose on them. Do you want to be seen like a nanny state government, brainwashed religious loon or some agenda driven politicaly correct zealot? Because that is what you guys sound like. Let people decide for themselves.

I am not telling women what to do. I am just suggesting that all things being equal that a man will batter a woman. Women are weaker than men generally speaking. Just a fact. It is why we do not hit women. Chopping off a willy and adding a few hormones is not going to reduce height by several inches.