Golovkin v Steve Rolls

[Ron Swanson]

How many years do we see it before people accept it? Water is wet, it’s always been, it always will be

[powerpuncher]

How many years do we see it before people accept it? Water is wet, it’s always been, it always will be

I will agree that GGG probably won’t go down in history as great as he should have been. I feel like he could have if at this point of his career he fought more for legacy than money. I don’t blame him, but it is what it is.

[p4pking]

Wtf... you have to sign up for boxrec now? Never heard of Adams. It is too bad GGG basically gave up everything to chase Canelo, but I completely understand it, he wouldnt have made nearly as much money doing anything else. He will likely still just fight a few soft touches in hopes of getting a rubber match.

[Fenster]

Three of Golovkins last four fights have been against Canelo and Jacobs. This money grabbing "ducker" narrative is silly. He specifically signed with DAZN to get a 3rd Canelo fight (plus they have the other belt holders), he's chasing his "legacy" as well as money, there's not a bigger middleweight match than those two.

[p4pking]

Yes that came across differently than I meant it, Im not in that camp per say. My thing is GGG clearly won the first fight, then sat around waiting(through no fault of his own, and assuming you dont put much in Vanes as a late sub), and clearly showed the age in the rematch, I think theres a fair case that he did lose that. As much as Ill root for him, I think by the time a 3rd fight happens he’ll likely be well beaten by Canelo. Again, only a moron wouldnt do the same thing when you look at the money, and they were both great fights to watch. Guess I dont have much of a point at all come to think

[Ron Swanson]

Three of Golovkins last four fights have been against Canelo and Jacobs. This money grabbing "ducker" narrative is silly. He specifically signed with DAZN to get a 3rd Canelo fight (plus they have the other belt holders), he's chasing his "legacy" as well as money, there's not a bigger middleweight match than those two.

36 years old, name his top 5 opponents. If he was an African American his resume would trashed for his crap opponents. A Kazak deserves equal treatment. Everyone, always, deserves equal treatment

3 decent opponents in an entire career, yeah, he’s earned more weak opponents SMDH. 2 of his 3 big opponents couldn’t win a round against a WW, a WW that started at 130.

[Fenster]

Three of Golovkins last four fights have been against Canelo and Jacobs. This money grabbing "ducker" narrative is silly. He specifically signed with DAZN to get a 3rd Canelo fight (plus they have the other belt holders), he's chasing his "legacy" as well as money, there's not a bigger middleweight match than those two.

36 years old, name his top 5 opponents. If he was an African American his resume would trashed for his crap opponents. A Kazak deserves equal treatment. Everyone, always, deserves equal treatment

3 decent opponents in an entire career, yeah, he’s earned more weak opponents SMDH. 2 of his 3 big opponents couldn’t win a round against a WW, a WW that started at 130.

I've heard this argument a million times, even before the internet was invented, every "great" fighter who dominates a division gets accused of having a "weak resume/ducking," there's always fighters "they should have fought."

Substitute Golovkin for Hagler, Calzaghe, Hopkins, Roy, Michalczewski, Floyd, Tyson, Naz - It has nothing to do with skin colour or nationality, even ignoring obvious prejudice and bias (hate), boxing fans have always demanded more, there's always someone new coming along.

Golovkin is simply history repeating itself.

[Ron Swanson]

Three of Golovkins last four fights have been against Canelo and Jacobs. This money grabbing "ducker" narrative is silly. He specifically signed with DAZN to get a 3rd Canelo fight (plus they have the other belt holders), he's chasing his "legacy" as well as money, there's not a bigger middleweight match than those two.

36 years old, name his top 5 opponents. If he was an African American his resume would trashed for his crap opponents. A Kazak deserves equal treatment. Everyone, always, deserves equal treatment

3 decent opponents in an entire career, yeah, he’s earned more weak opponents SMDH. 2 of his 3 big opponents couldn’t win a round against a WW, a WW that started at 130.

I've heard this argument a million times, even before the internet was invented, every "great" fighter who dominates a division gets accused of having a "weak resume/ducking," there's always fighters "they should have fought."

Substitute Golovkin for Hagler, Calzaghe, Hopkins, Roy, Michalczewski, Floyd, Tyson, Naz - It has nothing to do with skin colour or nationality, even ignoring obvious prejudice and bias (hate), boxing fans have always demanded more, there's always someone new coming along.

Golovkin is simply history repeating itself.

No, GGG had Charlo to fight as mandatory for over a year, didn’t. He had an owed Jacobs rematch, didn’t. He had that whack job Saunders to be undisputed, didn’t. He had his mandatory against Derevyanchenko but instead got stripped to fight yet another never champion 154lber. Should we count all those he fought? If he actually fought the MWs he would be good. But he looked above and below for easy pickings. Or do you deny he looked to go up as far back as Steiglitz? Then was focused on the division, but fought Ouma, Fuchigami, Proksa, Rosado, Ishida? Not sure how these 154lbers helped him clear out 160. But he couldn’t get a shot from the big names right? Except this leads into Ward wanting to fight him and GGG couldn’t because of 100 different excuses including wanting to clean out 160 which ^, but also, remember Chavez, he was at 168 and GGG was willing to go up, remember Froch, he was willing to go up if Froch would come out of retirement. But he’s focused on cleaning out 160, except for if you look at what he did or what he was willing to do. But here you are, GGGs just a victim of circumstances haha, so predictable. Yep, he’s just like Hagler. Hagler had a ton of fights available to him but didn’t. Since it’s the same to you, how about you name the great MW fights Hagler didn’t accept.

I expect you to switch your argument and not name, prove me wrong.

[Primo Carnera]

Three of Golovkins last four fights have been against Canelo and Jacobs. This money grabbing "ducker" narrative is silly. He specifically signed with DAZN to get a 3rd Canelo fight (plus they have the other belt holders), he's chasing his "legacy" as well as money, there's not a bigger middleweight match than those two.

I don't reckon he's ducked anyone, far from it. I just think he's made piss poor decisions waiting on and begging for Canelo . It's too easy to say "he couldn't have made the money he made fighting Canelo." but I see it different.
he spent so long waiting on Canelo that his career lost momentum. if he had gotten on with his own career, Canelo would've still had to resort to finding shitty catchweights and that pool was running dry , along with his credibility. if GGG continued winning, wiped out the division, gone up in weight, he could've been a big noise himself.
Instead , in the last 3 -4 years , he's fought 5 times , one of them was a defence against someone 2 weight divisions lower. in the 3-4 years before that he fought art least 10 times. I know he's getting older and won't fight as many times, but he spent too much time hanging off Canelo and GBP's Ball sack. it is what it is. He's no ducker, but he's MW ATG either. Ultimately , despite all the talk , it's your record and who you fight and who you beat and the titles you win that define your career.

[powerpuncher]

Three of Golovkins last four fights have been against Canelo and Jacobs. This money grabbing "ducker" narrative is silly. He specifically signed with DAZN to get a 3rd Canelo fight (plus they have the other belt holders), he's chasing his "legacy" as well as money, there's not a bigger middleweight match than those two.

I don't reckon he's ducked anyone, far from it. I just think he's made piss poor decisions waiting on and begging for Canelo . It's too easy to say "he couldn't have made the money he made fighting Canelo." but I see it different.
he spent so long waiting on Canelo that his career lost momentum. if he had gotten on with his own career, Canelo would've still had to resort to finding shitty catchweights and that pool was running dry , along with his credibility. if GGG continued winning, wiped out the division, gone up in weight, he could've been a big noise himself.
Instead , in the last 3 -4 years , he's fought 5 times , one of them was a defence against someone 2 weight divisions lower. in the 3-4 years before that he fought art least 10 times. I know he's getting older and won't fight as many times, but he spent too much time hanging off Canelo and GBP's Ball sack. it is what it is. He's no ducker, but he's MW ATG either. Ultimately , despite all the talk , it's your record and who you fight and who you beat and the titles you win that define your career.

Good explanation. I agree with your assessment. The issue is that GGG was on the road to ATG status until he played the game with Canelo and slowed his career. The issue is that the division started getting stacked right as the whole Canelo saga began. So instead of fighting the influx of fighters at middleweight, he chose to wait for Canelo instead.

Again, I don’t blame him at all. Most of us would have done the same thing. It’s just as fans, it would have been nice for him to fight other fighters instead.

[Spicoli]

Awesome perspectives and I'm a fan of his but can feel some faults in how Golovkin settled into being the runner up in the whole Canelo sweepstakes. Honestly though Golovkin has really been damned if he does and damned if he doesn't, he's been screwed by the judges row and he's been screwed by Canelos conduct and the process. He was blasted for taking Vanes so he could fulfill an agreement rather than just flipping the script and basically meeting Charlo as a TBA. To me that was unrealistic and Golovkin wasn't the one who screwed the fans in the first place. But then we see what Korobov could do with him. Hindsight. I'm off the road here, basically I would have loved to see GGG not so eagerly pursue a man he's already beaten twice and again leave some fans with that feeling of backseat driver and observer as Canelo gets the accolades and constantly has his little ginger pubes groomed by promotion. But alas...money. I get it. On both ends. Golovkin has seen it first hand and I like to think there is also some focus on redemption and getting the deserved nod over a tough high class rival. But I think all they're doing is timing Golovkin out and treating him like an adopted pooch. Again.

He's better than a Brandon Adams. It's almost an insult and pre set to keep him on the 'also ran' side compared to Canelo scooping up title trinkets as door prizes and is poised, with an impressive win, to eclipse anything Golovkin has done in years. He has signed a 6 fight deal so I understand there has to be some cannon fodder but assuming the golden goose that is Canelo gets to pick and choose his way why on Earth should Golovkin have to wait even 2,3,5 fights? Dazn needs to showcase Golovkin on the highest levels certainly with age a consideration. He's an equal to Canelo. They throw the casino and sho in v AJ at Wilder who couldn't box groceries and lost his last fight but more than likely Golovkin with mop the mat with Adams getting some criticism while doing so and be matched with Andrade by 2020 . I'm all for unifications that would be fine.

[Fenster]

Three of Golovkins last four fights have been against Canelo and Jacobs. This money grabbing "ducker" narrative is silly. He specifically signed with DAZN to get a 3rd Canelo fight (plus they have the other belt holders), he's chasing his "legacy" as well as money, there's not a bigger middleweight match than those two.

I don't reckon he's ducked anyone, far from it. I just think he's made piss poor decisions waiting on and begging for Canelo . It's too easy to say "he couldn't have made the money he made fighting Canelo." but I see it different.
he spent so long waiting on Canelo that his career lost momentum. if he had gotten on with his own career, Canelo would've still had to resort to finding shitty catchweights and that pool was running dry , along with his credibility. if GGG continued winning, wiped out the division, gone up in weight, he could've been a big noise himself.
Instead , in the last 3 -4 years , he's fought 5 times , one of them was a defence against someone 2 weight divisions lower. in the 3-4 years before that he fought art least 10 times. I know he's getting older and won't fight as many times, but he spent too much time hanging off Canelo and GBP's Ball sack. it is what it is. He's no ducker, but he's MW ATG either. Ultimately , despite all the talk , it's your record and who you fight and who you beat and the titles you win that define your career.

Exactly! Which is precisely why Golovkin IS an all-time great (hall-of-fame cert). He dominated the middleweight division, spent years and years P4P rated, headlined massive shows all over the world and most importantly left his mark on the sport as a "must watch" brutal sparko machine, a "middleweight Tyson," a boxing superstar (assuming he doesn't do a Roy, of course).

Don't mean to be condescending but.... you need to remove your personal feelings to fairly assess fighters. It doesn't matter what you, me or any tiny minority think about Canelo, the fact is he's universally recognized as a boxing superstar, a multi "world" champion, a P4P standout.

It doesn't matter what anyone thinks about Charlo or Saunders or whoever you want Golovkin to fight, they are minnows compared to Canelo. Golovkin beat him TWICE - in the majority of fans eyes - and those fights will sit alongside the other great middleweight matchups when it's all said and done. And it's still his biggest fight possible.

[p4pking]

This is true really. The Charlos were/are also 154 pounders, Jermall couldve lost his last fight and first at 160, Jermell did lose(bad decision but not a robbery imo) his last at 154 against a guy who had been well beaten there prior. Who else was GGG to have fought? Theres Saunders as you say, who has shot himself in the foot and done little to make himself a standout. andrade is there now, fuck knows what hes been doing. Canelo and Jacobs are clearly the best guys he couldve fought.

[Primo Carnera]

Three of Golovkins last four fights have been against Canelo and Jacobs. This money grabbing "ducker" narrative is silly. He specifically signed with DAZN to get a 3rd Canelo fight (plus they have the other belt holders), he's chasing his "legacy" as well as money, there's not a bigger middleweight match than those two.

I don't reckon he's ducked anyone, far from it. I just think he's made piss poor decisions waiting on and begging for Canelo . It's too easy to say "he couldn't have made the money he made fighting Canelo." but I see it different.
he spent so long waiting on Canelo that his career lost momentum. if he had gotten on with his own career, Canelo would've still had to resort to finding shitty catchweights and that pool was running dry , along with his credibility. if GGG continued winning, wiped out the division, gone up in weight, he could've been a big noise himself.
Instead , in the last 3 -4 years , he's fought 5 times , one of them was a defence against someone 2 weight divisions lower. in the 3-4 years before that he fought art least 10 times. I know he's getting older and won't fight as many times, but he spent too much time hanging off Canelo and GBP's Ball sack. it is what it is. He's no ducker, but he's MW ATG either. Ultimately , despite all the talk , it's your record and who you fight and who you beat and the titles you win that define your career.

Exactly! Which is precisely why Golovkin IS an all-time great (hall-of-fame cert). He dominated the middleweight division, spent years and years P4P rated, headlined massive shows all over the world and most importantly left his mark on the sport as a "must watch" brutal sparko machine, a "middleweight Tyson," a boxing superstar (assuming he doesn't do a Roy, of course).

Don't mean to be condescending but.... you need to remove your personal feelings to fairly assess fighters. It doesn't matter what you, me or any tiny minority think about Canelo, the fact is he's universally recognized as a boxing superstar, a multi "world" champion, a P4P standout.

It doesn't matter what anyone thinks about Charlo or Saunders or whoever you want Golovkin to fight, they are minnows compared to Canelo. Golovkin beat him TWICE - in the majority of fans eyes - and those fights will sit alongside the other great middleweight matchups when it's all said and done. And it's still his biggest fight possible.

you say I need to remove my personal feelings, then you go on to say Golovkin BEAT Canelo TWICE. well , to prove my personal feelings don't get in the way and indeed to prove our agreed perception on legacy, I would say that Canelo is more of an ATG than GGG in the division, because he beat him and drew with him.
Hagler , Obviously was ahead of GGG for all the reasons we gave, SRL could even be classed above GGG at MW , because he beat Hagler. SRR also naturally is ranked above GGG and all other MW's and indeed fighters IMO. RJJ is ahead of GGG, as is Carlos Monzon. Bernard Hopkins made so many more defences that he is ahead of GGG. Sergio Martinez dominated the division as much as GGG and was higher ranked P4P than GGG.
so with all these guys ahead of GGG, how is he an ATG? aren't we diluting All time great a little if every fucker is an ATG?