Racism/Chimp Pic/BBC/Royals/Danny Baker Sacked

[Gandalf]

Nobody here knows shit about racism, but it doesn't stop everyone from talking up a storm.

Racism isn't words. It's an attitude and a set of held beliefs. If you say "nigger" in a conversation, but in all honesty do not consider blacks to be inferior or objectionable, then you're not racist. If said person says "nigger" to a black person and the black person objects, usually the first person will refrain from using the word so as to not offend the black person. This is not rocket science. It's basic human nature and principles of human decency. The same goes for every race, ethnic group, gender, and every other worldly distinction which separates us from one another.

You could be squeaky clean in your lexicon and be the world's worst racist.

This is exactly why it's not simple. The crux of this argument is a man got sacked for posting a chimp pic, he swears blind the intent wasn't aimed at black people in any way, he has never done/said a racist thing in 61 years and everyone who knows him backs him up. He has literally fought against racist/facists. However, not only is losing his job not sufficient punishment, whole swathes of society want him arrested. I've heard dozens of black people washing away any defence of him with - "yeah, right, closet racist."

You use the word nigger, regardless of context, how will you prove the intent wasn't racist? Like Batman's example of "niggardly," he was taken to task for fear of offending people who don't understand the meaning, for fear of offending a lack of intelligence. Mad world.

I hadn't read the article link in the OP, so went back and read it. What's sad is that all this uproar against Baker is amplified because it has to do with a royal baby. Had it been Jane Doe's baby, who knows... the guy would probably still have his job. I tend to lean toward giving Baker the benefit of the doubt. You have to look at a person's background, not just casually wash away over 60 years of personal history. On the other hand, about a year ago there was a furor over Roseanne Barr making a racist Tweet comparing Obama aide Valerie Jarrett to an ape. In that case, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to come to the conclusion that Roseanne is very much a racist. That's why these things shouldn't be broad-brushed.

But what if the person does look a bit chimp like? For instance, I have always thought Brad Pitt has a touch of chimp, but it isn't racism. There is a former wrestler on TV here who looks a bit ape like, but I would hardly say everyone looks ape like. People really do sometimes look a funny way. Was Bonham Carter mocking black people when she dressed up as a monkey? I think people have had their brain chemistry altered and just want to be triggered by key words these days.

[TitoFan]

Nobody here knows shit about racism, but it doesn't stop everyone from talking up a storm.

Racism isn't words. It's an attitude and a set of held beliefs. If you say "nigger" in a conversation, but in all honesty do not consider blacks to be inferior or objectionable, then you're not racist. If said person says "nigger" to a black person and the black person objects, usually the first person will refrain from using the word so as to not offend the black person. This is not rocket science. It's basic human nature and principles of human decency. The same goes for every race, ethnic group, gender, and every other worldly distinction which separates us from one another.

You could be squeaky clean in your lexicon and be the world's worst racist.

This is exactly why it's not simple. The crux of this argument is a man got sacked for posting a chimp pic, he swears blind the intent wasn't aimed at black people in any way, he has never done/said a racist thing in 61 years and everyone who knows him backs him up. He has literally fought against racist/facists. However, not only is losing his job not sufficient punishment, whole swathes of society want him arrested. I've heard dozens of black people washing away any defence of him with - "yeah, right, closet racist."

You use the word nigger, regardless of context, how will you prove the intent wasn't racist? Like Batman's example of "niggardly," he was taken to task for fear of offending people who don't understand the meaning, for fear of offending a lack of intelligence. Mad world.

I hadn't read the article link in the OP, so went back and read it. What's sad is that all this uproar against Baker is amplified because it has to do with a royal baby. Had it been Jane Doe's baby, who knows... the guy would probably still have his job. I tend to lean toward giving Baker the benefit of the doubt. You have to look at a person's background, not just casually wash away over 60 years of personal history. On the other hand, about a year ago there was a furor over Roseanne Barr making a racist Tweet comparing Obama aide Valerie Jarrett to an ape. In that case, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to come to the conclusion that Roseanne is very much a racist. That's why these things shouldn't be broad-brushed.

But what if the person does look a bit chimp like? For instance, I have always thought Brad Pitt has a touch of chimp, but it isn't racism. There is a former wrestler on TV here who looks a bit ape like, but I would hardly say everyone looks ape like. People really do sometimes look a funny way. Was Bonham Carter mocking black people when she dressed up as a monkey? I think people have had their brain chemistry altered and just want to be triggered by key words these days.

Context, Miles.

As mature, intelligent human beings, we should be able to discern between the racist and the non-racist. Roseanne, being the lowlife comedienne that she is, was totally racist in her comments. She meant it to be racist, and it came out entirely racist. She got what was coming to her. The chimp/ape thing, I see your point. Unfortunately history is loaded with racist views comparing blacks to monkeys.... so it's tough to come off any other way than racist when you go the chimp/ape route. Yes... some white people look a bit like apes. But comparing a black person to one is going to get you in heaps of trouble no matter what the intention was.

[X]

Helena Bonham Carter was in Planet of the Apes, and she saved the director a fortune because she didn't need any makeup or CGI.

[TitoFan]

Must be a British inside joke.....

[Gandalf]

See a non white man makes a racist joke about a white woman. Nobody gets hurt. It's no big deal.

[Spicoli]

Hardened racism is something you know when you see it. Anyone bouncing around dropping N bombs as insult and slur out in the real world is showing you exactly who they are and don't require the Scooby Doo mystery hour regarding intent or heart considering our National history. It's elsewhere and often more coded and sly. I remember as a dumb little twat in the 70's we learned that 'Fag' was actually a cigarette and describing a homosexual was the slur. It was like Christmas to go start some shat. The next day the class is running around "using it" on everyone because we could then point to the dictionary and say "It means cigarette" like some smartass. Rambling here, forgot this thread was about monkeys or chimps etc. I prefer Silver backs.

[Gandalf]

Hardened racism is something you know when you see it. Anyone bouncing around dropping N bombs as insult and slur out in the real world is showing you exactly who they are and don't require the Scooby Doo mystery hour regarding intent or heart considering our National history. It's elsewhere and often more coded and sly. I remember as a dumb little twat in the 70's we learned that 'Fag' was actually a cigarette and describing a homosexual was the slur. It was like Christmas to go start some shat. The next day the class is running around "using it" on everyone because we could then point to the dictionary and say "It means cigarette" like some smartass. Rambling here, forgot this thread was about monkeys or chimps etc. I prefer Silver backs.

That is true and that is why I think it is important to distinguish between jokes and people who are snarling insults at you. However, I think an insult is an insult regardless of race, gender, or sexuality. I have certainly been called a 'fag' in my time, but I consider it no worse than 'cunt' or 'chimp'. The word really only has power if it owns you. I was last called 'faggot' at a military base as some bloated and rather ugly older man walked into the toilets and I was walking out. Sure it was a slur, but at the same time rather than see it as demeaning I thought 'Well, yes, I am certainly slimmer and more attractive than you' and smirked on my way out. The only thing that poor old chap could pull was a trigger. I think it is great when you can provoke a reaction like that for doing nothing at all. Now if it was a bunch of them snarling it and wanting to beat me up for it, then it is a whole new ball park. That's where I think the limits are.

[Gandalf]

Nobody here knows shit about racism, but it doesn't stop everyone from talking up a storm.

Racism isn't words. It's an attitude and a set of held beliefs. If you say "nigger" in a conversation, but in all honesty do not consider blacks to be inferior or objectionable, then you're not racist. If said person says "nigger" to a black person and the black person objects, usually the first person will refrain from using the word so as to not offend the black person. This is not rocket science. It's basic human nature and principles of human decency. The same goes for every race, ethnic group, gender, and every other worldly distinction which separates us from one another.

You could be squeaky clean in your lexicon and be the world's worst racist.

This is exactly why it's not simple. The crux of this argument is a man got sacked for posting a chimp pic, he swears blind the intent wasn't aimed at black people in any way, he has never done/said a racist thing in 61 years and everyone who knows him backs him up. He has literally fought against racist/facists. However, not only is losing his job not sufficient punishment, whole swathes of society want him arrested. I've heard dozens of black people washing away any defence of him with - "yeah, right, closet racist."

You use the word nigger, regardless of context, how will you prove the intent wasn't racist? Like Batman's example of "niggardly," he was taken to task for fear of offending people who don't understand the meaning, for fear of offending a lack of intelligence. Mad world.

I hadn't read the article link in the OP, so went back and read it. What's sad is that all this uproar against Baker is amplified because it has to do with a royal baby. Had it been Jane Doe's baby, who knows... the guy would probably still have his job. I tend to lean toward giving Baker the benefit of the doubt. You have to look at a person's background, not just casually wash away over 60 years of personal history. On the other hand, about a year ago there was a furor over Roseanne Barr making a racist Tweet comparing Obama aide Valerie Jarrett to an ape. In that case, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to come to the conclusion that Roseanne is very much a racist. That's why these things shouldn't be broad-brushed.

But what if the person does look a bit chimp like? For instance, I have always thought Brad Pitt has a touch of chimp, but it isn't racism. There is a former wrestler on TV here who looks a bit ape like, but I would hardly say everyone looks ape like. People really do sometimes look a funny way. Was Bonham Carter mocking black people when she dressed up as a monkey? I think people have had their brain chemistry altered and just want to be triggered by key words these days.

Context, Miles.

As mature, intelligent human beings, we should be able to discern between the racist and the non-racist. Roseanne, being the lowlife comedienne that she is, was totally racist in her comments. She meant it to be racist, and it came out entirely racist. She got what was coming to her. The chimp/ape thing, I see your point. Unfortunately history is loaded with racist views comparing blacks to monkeys.... so it's tough to come off any other way than racist when you go the chimp/ape route. Yes... some white people look a bit like apes. But comparing a black person to one is going to get you in heaps of trouble no matter what the intention was.

True, but this is where the eggshells thing has become a bit too much. X is not white and made a potentially racist joke, but nobody is going to get upset by it. It is after all only a joke. I think the media basically spends too much time blowing up silly online stuff into drama for views and people are easily psyched. We saw the same thing with MAGA boy. The poor kid was being threatened and dragged through the gutter for racism despite not doing anything at all. The media is responsible for a lot of the drama by hyping up things that are best ignored or certainly would be had a non-white person done it. Personally I do not care if black people want to be racist or anybody for the matter, just as long as it is not malicious or leading to violence.